Testing DDG171(Type 052C) displayed in south china sea!

myskykk

New Member
Testing DDG171(Type 052C) displayed in the south china sea!

In the south of chinese Navy basis.
 
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gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
myskykk said:
In the south of chinese Navy basis.
I don't think those ships are at sea - nobody chucks out the bunting except for when they're about to do "show and tell" port visits or if they're exiting the building (after "show and tell")
 
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contedicavour

New Member
myskykk said:
In the south of chinese Navy basis.
May be they are not operational yet, however it is amazing to see how fast the Chinese Navy has evolved from the obsolete Luda ships to the Luhu (insufficient AAW with the local copy of Crotale 13-km range missile) to these new VLS-equipped DDGs. Even the Russian-built Sovremenny with their non-VLS Shtil SA-N-7 AAW missiles are obsolescent when compared to these new ships... provided of course they do have Grumble SA-N-6 in those VLS and decent radars.

cheers
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
contedicavour said:
however it is amazing to see how fast the Chinese Navy has evolved from the obsolete Luda ships to the Luhu (insufficient AAW with the local copy of Crotale 13-km range missile) to these new VLS-equipped DDGs. Even the Russian-built Sovremenny with their non-VLS Shtil SA-N-7 AAW missiles are obsolescent when compared to these new ships...
The chinese are certainly fast tracking development - and they're fortunate enough to have an economy which allows them to suspend the normal development cycles of doing long testing and development and series runs.

I'm not convinced that this is a good development and build cycle though - short incremental runs are potentially dangerous development philosophies as they bring their own burdens along to the game.
 

Schumacher

New Member
gf0012-aust said:
The chinese are certainly fast tracking development - and they're fortunate enough to have an economy which allows them to suspend the normal development cycles of doing long testing and development and series runs.

I'm not convinced that this is a good development and build cycle though - short incremental runs are potentially dangerous development philosophies as they bring their own burdens along to the game.
I don't think the Chinese are foregoing necessary long testing and development at all. Many have complaint they're going too slow by not throwing more money at the projects & go for high profile items like carriers.
The DDGs have been ongoing for yrs & even now I think only 2 are built & not operational yet, showing they're taking a measured pace, before the design is finalized & mass production begins, while being very specific & practical abt their requirements.
Not unlike their space program which went from 1st man in space to 2 men & multi days in space in a short time compared to what US & USSR did before.
It's one of the few advantages of being behind. With many technologies now in public domain, they are able to go faster than if they're using pioneering technologies.
'second mover advantage.' is the term I was looking for. :)
 
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gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Schumacher said:
I don't think the Chinese are foregoing necessary long testing and development at all. Many have complaint they're going too slow by not throwing more money at the projects & go for high profile items like carriers.
No, you've misunderstood what I'm saying.

They are building short run pairs - thats an intensive and somewhat cost ineffective development path if you are committed to series development.

Its the process thats normally employed if you are looking at CTD's - not production vessels.
 

Schumacher

New Member
gf0012-aust said:
No, you've misunderstood what I'm saying.

They are building short run pairs - thats an intensive and somewhat cost ineffective development path if you are committed to series development.

Its the process thats normally employed if you are looking at CTD's - not production vessels.
Yes. It shows they're experimenting as they go, not knowing whether the DDG will ever see production.
I think it also shows a genuine shift from the old PLA path of quantity over quality.
I believe their aim is to truely close the indigenous tech gap with the West. Not just some quick, look good fixes. And they're taking a gradual but steady pace towards it, whereas purchases of Russian stuffs like Kilo & the cruisers are to meet more immediate needs like potential conflicts near the East China Sea.
But as U say, that may not be cost effective.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Schumacher said:
Yes. It shows they're experimenting as they go, not knowing whether the DDG will ever see production.
I think it also shows a genuine shift from the old PLA path of quantity over quality.
I believe their aim is to truely close the indigenous tech gap with the West. Not just some quick, look good fixes. And they're taking a gradual but steady pace towards it,
agree entirely

Schumacher said:
whereas purchases of Russian stuffs like Kilo & the cruisers are to meet more immediate needs like potential conflicts near the East China Sea.
agree entirely

Schumacher said:
But as U say, that may not be cost effective.
which in light of their current economic performance is do-able and a non issue. its not however sustainable, and not normally good development practice.
 
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