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This is a discussion on Submarine news within the Navy & Maritime forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; catchall thread for submarine news, developments...


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Old March 10th, 2016   #1
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Submarine news

catchall thread for submarine news, developments
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Old March 10th, 2016   #2
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Soryu Class

Number 7 launched

MHI Delivers "Jinryu" Japan's 7th Soryu-Class Submarine, at the MHI Kobe Shipyard & Machinery Works
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Old March 10th, 2016   #3
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Keel laying to commissioning in a touch over 4 years, that's pretty impressive. They obviously have two subs underway in MHI and Kawasaki at any one time. Let's hope we can match the schedule and bring one out every two years just as we did with Collins.
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Old March 10th, 2016   #4
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Keel laying to commissioning in a touch over 4 years, that's pretty impressive. They obviously have two subs underway in MHI and Kawasaki at any one time. Let's hope we can match the schedule and bring one out every two years just as we did with Collins.
If I was Japanese I'd be reinforcing the fact that these are real subs - not paper propositions, and then trotting out japanese sub availability rates against the competitors

and if some halfwit argues the there is a danger in translating japanese specs, then they should start pointing all of the major energy and platform builds they've done with locals outside of japan

I'm just hoping that political machinations are kicked to the sidelines and these things are judged on merit - because from a capability perspective they are a golden mile ahead of the other paper propositions.

the risk matrix will be interesting

I've got a few USN submariner colleagues who are pretty clear on what they'd get if they were in the same boat (no pun intended)
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Old March 11th, 2016   #5
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and if some halfwit argues the there is a danger in translating japanese specs, then they should start pointing all of the major energy and platform builds they've done with locals outside of japan
There are people who make that argument? Seriously?

I mean, it's not like Mitsubishi and Kawasaki have no business dealings outside of Japan and thus can't figure out translation...
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Old March 11th, 2016   #6
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There are people who make that argument? Seriously?

I mean, it's not like Mitsubishi and Kawasaki have no business dealings outside of Japan and thus can't figure out translation...
unfortunately its an indicator of how frantic some of the arguments are run by some of their competitots australian partners - and also by some idiotic politicians who have been fed the same garbage by companies promising to build boats in their states.

(australias version of "bought" and "dim wittted" congressmen/women)

'tis sad but true
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Old March 11th, 2016   #7
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I would love to be sitting in a P3 working the consoles when the Soryu class, Hakuryu exercises with the RAN and RAAF in the East Aust. Exercise Areas next month. Apparently she will be accompanied by 2 Destroyers.
If this doesn't convince the doubters, nothing will provided off course that they as good as we 're told.
I'd give my left nit to be on board the ships or planes to see the results and be able to compare with Collins.
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Old March 11th, 2016   #8
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I'd give my left nit to be on board the ships or planes to see the results and be able to compare with Collins.
ditto

I imagine there will be some PLAN subs in the region as well. They always sniff around at RIMPAC and Tal Saber
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Old March 11th, 2016   #9
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Something I came across suggested that the Royal Norwegian Navy was looking to start a project to replace their Ula-class submarines. While the historical sub purchases appear to be like those of the Swedes, suitable to operations in shallow, cold waters like in the Baltic I was wondering if people thought it might be more advisable for Norway to get conventional subs which could operate in deep, Arctic Ocean waters.

Given the potential opening of sea lanes through the Arctic as a result of ice melt and rising sea levels, I am wondering whether Norway should get another sub which can lurk around Norway, or be sent to hunt/sanitize an area for hostile subs.
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Old March 11th, 2016   #10
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Something I came across suggested that the Royal Norwegian Navy was looking to start a project to replace their Ula-class submarines. While the historical sub purchases appear to be like those of the Swedes, suitable to operations in shallow, cold waters like in the Baltic I was wondering if people thought it might be more advisable for Norway to get conventional subs which could operate in deep, Arctic Ocean waters.

Given the potential opening of sea lanes through the Arctic as a result of ice melt and rising sea levels, I am wondering whether Norway should get another sub which can lurk around Norway, or be sent to hunt/sanitize an area for hostile subs.
Its going to be interesting in that region as all of the Skandinavians, UK, Canada etc are seeing more and more russian sub patrols around the arctic and northern waters....

the new claims based on redrawing the continental shelves due to receding ice makes for interesting times. trawling under the ice really becomes the province of nukes (persistence and structural engineering issues)

it really starts to define what subs should be built. Am not sure grey and green water subs are the right choice - unless your country becomes the ultimate isolationist, but that injects some other political realities which won't serve that nation well.....
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Old March 11th, 2016   #11
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Its going to be interesting in that region as all of the Skandinavians, UK, Canada etc are seeing more and more russian sub patrols around the arctic and northern waters....
Definitely. Good job we're finally picking up some P-8s.
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Old March 11th, 2016   #12
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And IIRC that will be the last of the AIP Soryu's as well ? so should be a few Li-ion in the water by the time we have our first in the water Not sure if it was you GF or read somewhere else that the Soryu proposal for Aust included a 6-8m plug for extra fuel and batteries ?

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Old March 11th, 2016   #13
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And IIRC that will be the last of the AIP Soryu's as well ? so should be a few Li-ion in the water by the time we have our first in the water Not sure if it was you GF or read somewhere else that the Soryu proposal for Aust included a 6-8m plug for extra fuel and batteries ?

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One of the things I would be interested in knowing, is what is the relative energy density of the diesel fuel vs. Li-Ion batteries.

If it is still significantly canted towards the diesel fuel, then it might still make more sense for additional fuel and generation capacity, instead of additional storage capacity. I suppose it also depends on the trade off balances, greater duration between recharge/indiscretion periods with a greater duration for each indiscretion, or more frequent recharge/indiscretions, with a shorter duration.
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Old March 11th, 2016   #14
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Although nuclear subs are superior for Arctic operations and I would have liked to see Canada select Virginia class subs to replace the Victoria class, the political will to do is somewhat lacking (although not as anti-nuke as OZ IMO) and some kind of joint US/Canada manufacture would be problematic given the US replacement requirements as per the link enclosed. With the assumed Arctic warming, a long range diesel electric seems to be a reasonable future option for Canada. It would be nice if Canada made some overtures to future involvement in the Australian/Japanese Soryu hybrid. I'm not holding my breath on this.

Not Enough Subs So Buy More: Rep. Forbes « Breaking Defense - Defense industry news, analysis and commentary
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Old March 11th, 2016   #15
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One of the things I would be interested in knowing, is what is the relative energy density of the diesel fuel vs. Li-Ion batteries
Diesel is hard to beat. Great advances in Li-ion battery technology have been occurring and I would think they are now an acceptable alternative to chemical AIP systems and safer as well. Isn't the new Soryu to forego the Stirling AIP in favour of high performance Li-ion battery banks?
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