Spanish hulls for Rusian Corvettes sold to Indonesia?

Gladius

New Member
Indonesia Orders Russian Corvettes
Kommersant - June 30, 2007

// Yet, Spain is to build them

Rosoboronexport signed on Friday an agreement with Indonesia’s naval forces on building new Russian project-20382 corvettes. The future contract will be implemented according to a new scheme: Spain is to build in its dockyard the ships’ hulls according to the design of St. Petersburg’s enterprise Almaz. The ships will be finished and equipped with armaments in Russia’s Severnaya Verf. Rosoboronexport agreed to this variant for the sake of entering Indonesia’s naval market.
At the 3rd International Naval Exhibition in St. Petersburg, Rosoboronexport’s First Deputy Director General Vladimir Pakhomov and Indonesian Naval Forces Commander Admiral Slamet Subijanto signed on Friday a contract agreement on building project-20382 “Tiger” corvettes for Indonesia’s naval forces. Rosoboronexport explained: “The special feature of this project is that Spain’s ship-building companies will take part in it together with Russia’s enterprise Almaz. It is necessary to sign the contract for designing and building the ships of that type for Indonesia’s naval forces very soon.”

Project-20382 “Tiger” corvette is a ship for acting in the near sea zone against ships and submarines, for supporting landing troops, and against air targets. The corvette is equipped with Uran anti-ship missiles. Kashtan antiaircraft missile system, and Ka-27 helicopter. The “Tiger” corvette’s baseline is project-20380 “Guarding” corvette, which is now undergoing factory and state tests, and which is to enter Russian naval forces’ combat strength in late 2007. Experts estimate one export “Tiger” corvette at about $120-150 million.

“The ships for Indonesia will be built according to our design. Yet, Spain will be the prime contractor. Spanish companies will only build the hulls, while Russia will fill them with communication equipment, radio-electric equipment, and armaments. I hope that a firm contract will be signed soon, fixating the terms for the project’s implementation and the number of ships to be built,” said Innokenty Naletov, Rosoboronexport director general’s advisor. He added that Spain has not yet chosen the dockyard for building the corvettes, and that St. Petersburg’s Severnaya Verf may become Russia’s main contractor, although it might be other companies as well. Naletov also said that “primarily South-East Asian countries, as well as Venezuela and Qatar” are interested in the corvette. Meanwhile, Severnaya Verf director general Andrei Fomichev refrained from comments on the contract agreement, saying: “It is Rosoboronexport’s commercial secret.”

First large defense contracts between Moscow and Jakarta were signed in 2003, when Indonesia bought two Su-27SK fighter jets, two Su-30MK2, two Mi-35P attack helicopters, six Mi-172 transport-combat helicopters, 32 BTR-80A armored personnel vehicles, large quantities of Kalashnikov AK-101 and AK-102 machine guns. In December 2006, Russia gave a $500 million loan to Indonesia for buying a new party of Su fighter jets. The contract is to be signed later in 2007. Indonesia also negotiated with Russia on buying Amur submarines. Yet, it is far from the contract’s signing.

A source in Russia’s ship-building industry said that it was Indonesia who required that the corvette’s hull be built in Spain: “Spain has been successfully working at Indonesia’s defense market since long ago. So, Spain knows its peculiarities, with whom and how to agree for signing a contract. Thus, it is easier for Rosoboronexport to promote Russian ships to Indonesia thru Spain.” The source added it is most likely that the corvette hulls will be built in Spain according to Russia’s design. Then, they will be equipped with engine and the necessary navigation equipment. Then, the corvettes will be coming themselves to Severnaya Verf, where armaments will be installed on them.

However, Russia’s Ministry of Industry and Energy believes such international cooperation might delay the contract’s signing and implementation. “It is necessary to obtain numerous licenses for giving the corvettes’ designs to Spain; to solve the issues of intellectual property rights, commercial and state secret protection,” explained a high-placed source in the Ministry. The official added that Russia has already had a positive experience of installing European and Israeli electronic systems onto Russian fighter jets Su-30MKI, and Russian valley fire systems “Smerch”, onto Czech tow-cars Tatra (both are supplied to India). “However, these projects were very hard to implement due to a great quantity of coordinating work,” admitted the source.
Link.

This announce of the Indonesian contract was made during the International Maritime Defense Show 2007 of Saint Pétersbourg.
The spanish AEGIS frigate Blás de Lezo (F-103) was present in the acts of Defense Show 2007 as the spanish naval representative.
 

contedicavour

New Member
This is one strange contract. Russian design and weaponry but hull building in Spain... besides, Indonesia does have shipbuilding capability so why doesn't it just order a couple directly from Russia and build the rest locally ?

Anyway it seems that Spain is attracting all sorts of contracts lately, from purely selling design (FFG and LHD to Spain) to selling hulls, but still not the highest margin item of all (radars, missiles, etc).

cheers
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
This is one strange contract. Russian design and weaponry but hull building in Spain... besides, Indonesia does have shipbuilding capability so why doesn't it just order a couple directly from Russia and build the rest locally ?

Anyway it seems that Spain is attracting all sorts of contracts lately, from purely selling design (FFG and LHD to Spain) to selling hulls, but still not the highest margin item of all (radars, missiles, etc).

cheers
Conte, I do believe you're correct about Indonesia being able to build hulls locally. What I'm not so sure of is how efficient and/or effective that is. From what I understand there are issues with the effectiveness of the work done in local dockyards in terms of both cost (graft needed, etc) and quality. Indonesia may well have found it more effective to outsource the construction to get around potential problems with building locally.

-Cheers
 

Tasman

Ship Watcher
Verified Defense Pro
What this demonstrates, IMO, is a very high respect for the competitiveness and the quality of work of Spanish shipbuilders.

These multi purpose corvettes look to me to as though they will be ideal for service around the islands of Indonesia and I think they will prove to be a valuable addition to the Indonesian Navy.

Cheers
 

qwerty223

New Member
This is one strange contract. Russian design and weaponry but hull building in Spain... besides, Indonesia does have shipbuilding capability so why doesn't it just order a couple directly from Russia and build the rest locally ?

Anyway it seems that Spain is attracting all sorts of contracts lately, from purely selling design (FFG and LHD to Spain) to selling hulls, but still not the highest margin item of all (radars, missiles, etc).

cheers
agreed here.
cannot understand why tedious procedure bring any benefits to cover the extra cost.
 

Ligreton

New Member
Maybe a commercial agreement¿? Navantia-Malaysia to sell LPD's Galicia Class cheaper??

eleconomista.es/empresas-finanzas/noticias/168663/06/07/Navantia-quiere-vender-buques-a-Malasia-y-Australia.html
 

Gladius

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
Malasia and Indonesia are different countries Ligreton. ;)

May be this case is a mixture of satisfaction with the last Spanish ships bought by Indonesia a few years ago (Bisma & Baladewa - 2003 - IIRC) built by Gandón Shipyards, and a guaranty of low risk and fixed costs against local production. Because AFAIK Indonesian shipyards lacks experience in building its Frigates or Corvettes, all of them were built by foreign shipyards of USA, Germany or the old Yugoslavia. They could do it, but maybe the risk involved was considered too high...Who knows...
 

Ligreton

New Member
Yes, sorry :confused:
No se en que estaria pensando... :)

Now i go to the center o Pamplona, today is SanFermin :loony
Tomorrow the running of the bulls..

PS: There is a lot of australians here in Pamplona :)
 

nero

New Member
Cheap yet best

This is one strange contract. Russian design and weaponry but hull building in Spain... besides, Indonesia does have shipbuilding capability so why doesn't it just order a couple directly from Russia and build the rest locally ?

Anyway it seems that Spain is attracting all sorts of contracts lately, from purely selling design (FFG and LHD to Spain) to selling hulls, but still not the highest margin item of all (radars, missiles, etc).

cheers
.


the spanish has expertise in ultra-futuristic magnetic-hulls made at a cheaper rate than any other country in the world.

that is why even malaysia & Chile had their magmetic-hull made in spain for their scorpene-class SSKs


now the spanish r making hulls for everything including corvettes




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contedicavour

New Member
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the spanish has expertise in ultra-futuristic magnetic-hulls made at a cheaper rate than any other country in the world.

that is why even malaysia & Chile had their magmetic-hull made in spain for their scorpene-class SSKs


now the spanish r making hulls for everything including corvettes




.
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Ok interesting I wasn't aware of this expertise in magnetic hulls manufacturing.
Still, the highest value added items aren't the hulls, it's the electronics and the weapons package. Gladius reminded me in another thread about Nulka. Other than that I don't remember other Spanish-conceived technology.
That's why I'm wondering if Spain's naval industry gains most in being an assembler of mainly US origin (French in the case of the Scorpene SSK) or if it would gain more from exporting less ships/subs but with a higher Spanish content.
I guess the overseas success of the S-80 SSK derived from Scorpene could be a first answer to my question.
Please just bear in mind this post isn't intended as a critic to Navantia (who is doing a hell of a good job), rather as an economic/investment question. We'll soon list on the stock exchange a minority stake in Fincantieri, so evaluating the potential of shipyards such as Navantia is clearly urgent.

cheers
 

santi

Member
Well, FABA (a subsidiary of Navantia) produce de Dorna FCS for the LM LCS, INDRA sell the Aldebaran EW suite for the K-130 corvettes.
Up to now Armada vessels have a decent amount of Spanish origin items, of course not at the same level of countries like UK, France or Italy.
The upgrade of Santa Maria/OHP is based mainly in national tech. The same for the future upgrade of PdA. JCI/BPE will have a lot of national hardware, from radars to combat system, EW, and so.
But Spain is a relatively newcomer in a market with a lot of well situated players (BAE, Thales, Alenia and the USA giants), even the corvettes and OPV’s for Venezuela have a combat suite of Thales-NL origin….
I suppose (hope) that in the future the vessels built here for the export market would have a bigger amount of Spanish systems inside.
 

nero

New Member
Well, FABA (a subsidiary of Navantia) produce de Dorna FCS for the LM LCS, INDRA sell the Aldebaran EW suite for the K-130 corvettes.
Up to now Armada vessels have a decent amount of Spanish origin items, of course not at the same level of countries like UK, France or Italy.
The upgrade of Santa Maria/OHP is based mainly in national tech. The same for the future upgrade of PdA. JCI/BPE will have a lot of national hardware, from radars to combat system, EW, and so.
But Spain is a relatively newcomer in a market with a lot of well situated players (BAE, Thales, Alenia and the USA giants), even the corvettes and OPV’s for Venezuela have a combat suite of Thales-NL origin….
I suppose (hope) that in the future the vessels built here for the export market would have a bigger amount of Spanish systems inside.
.

even the SMX-23 which is being built by DCN has spanish made hull

i will not be surprised if the BARRACUDA SSN has spanish components as well.

the spanish has come a long way since the 1990s, when it was a mere buyer of cheap patroll crafts from italy !!




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kams

New Member
Ok interesting I wasn't aware of this expertise in magnetic hulls manufacturing.

Contedicavour, could you illustrate the advantages of "Magnetic Hull" ver conventional "Non-magnetic hull", especially in Military vessels. Really appreciate any links to some detailed reading material.

Thanks.
 

contedicavour

New Member
Contedicavour, could you illustrate the advantages of "Magnetic Hull" ver conventional "Non-magnetic hull", especially in Military vessels. Really appreciate any links to some detailed reading material.

Thanks.
I'll let Nero answer this one, he seems to know a lot more than me about this Spanish expertise.

Overall I agree with previous posts that Navantia has made an impressive improvement vs the '80s and '90s. From what I've read there is a growing cluster of high tech industries around Navantia and this sounds promising. I wonder if the consolidation of the European defence industry will see Navantia as a prey or as a hunter :unknown

cheers
 
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