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shore based torpedo

This is a discussion on shore based torpedo within the Navy & Maritime forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Could anyone provide me data and informations about fixed torpedo tubes for shore defence?I known that they saw action during ...


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Old November 23rd, 2012   #1
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shore based torpedo

Could anyone provide me data and informations about fixed torpedo tubes for shore defence?I known that they saw action during WWII.In one case the German heavy cruiser "Blucher" sunk by two 533 mm torpedoes fired from an Norwegian shore torpedo launcher during German invasion in Norway.Do they still in use today by any naval force or being proposed by any naval warfare design office?I think it would be an ideal solution for narrow sea corridors between islands and rocks in environments like the Aegean sea.
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Old November 23rd, 2012   #2
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Could anyone provide me data and informations about fixed torpedo tubes for shore defence?I known that they saw action during WWII.In one case the German heavy cruiser "Blucher" sunk by two 533 mm torpedoes fired from an Norwegian shore torpedo launcher during German invasion in Norway.Do they still in use today by any naval force or being proposed by any naval warfare design office?I think it would be an ideal solution for narrow sea corridors between islands and rocks in environments like the Aegean sea.
Easier and cheaper to provide sea skimming missiles for the same job - you can stick an Exocet or Silkworm on the back of a six wheeler truck, and hold it twenty miles back from the coast, relying on remote targeting to cue the missile.

The Norwegians or Swedish may still have something in service but I suspect that torpedoes have been superseded by more modern technology. It's very remotely possible that the Iranians have tricked up a launch system for their Shkval clone but somehow I doubt it.
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Old November 24th, 2012   #3
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I used to fish at a place in Jervis Bay, NSW, called the tubes. It was a disused land based torpedo site, the tubes were still in place in the 1980,s, there would be pics of them somewhere on te net, famous fishing location for shore based game fish.
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Old November 24th, 2012   #4
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The German procurement agency (recently renamed from BWB to BAAInBw) operates a torpedo launch base for testing purposes. The launch base (at WTD71) is situated in such a way that torpedoes launched from it can cover any target in the Eckernförde Bay, a 17-km deep fjord. The base at the end of the fjord is home to the German Navy submarine squadron and the strategic reconnaissance ship group.
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Old November 25th, 2012   #5
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Could anyone provide me data and informations about fixed torpedo tubes for shore defence?I known that they saw action during WWII.In one case the German heavy cruiser "Blucher" sunk by two 533 mm torpedoes fired from an Norwegian shore torpedo launcher during German invasion in Norway.Do they still in use today by any naval force or being proposed by any naval warfare design office?I think it would be an ideal solution for narrow sea corridors between islands and rocks in environments like the Aegean sea.
I am not aware of any as 533 mm torpedoes are very heavy. While torpedoes are effective they are short ranged compared to other weapons which are most likely more moveable. Smaller torpedoes can be engaged with helicopters, a very moveable aircraft.
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Old November 26th, 2012   #6
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What i have in mind is the use of torpedoes from fixed buy hidden places in narrow sea straits like those who anyone could find to the Aegean,between islands,rocks islets and rocks.I'm aware that the Greek navy has something in mind too.
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Old November 26th, 2012   #7
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What i have in mind is the use of torpedoes from fixed buy hidden places in narrow sea straits like those who anyone could find to the Aegean,between islands,rocks islets and rocks.I'm aware that the Greek navy has something in mind too.
It is hard to imagine that you could secretly build, man, and operate many of these without being discovered. Once the location is known it is subject to attack aircraft, missiles, gun fire, torpedoes from submarines (if that the torpedo launcher is sub surface), but most critically by naval infantry and SpecOps troops. So you need to keep adding defenses, and pretty quickly you have an impossible to conceal fortress.

Fixed batteries are of little value in modern warfare.
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Old November 26th, 2012   #8
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Read up on the Russian VA-111 Shkval-E or Iranian "Hoot" missile, a 533mm super cavitation torpedo with a speed of about 200 knots. Some of these were reported to be based on Iranian offshore platforms.
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Old November 26th, 2012   #9
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What's the purpose for any land based torpedo launch system ? ASW ? well you can't done ASW from Land based station I believe. So then it left only for Anti Surface. Well why using Torps for Anti Surface, when you can choke small straits or archipelago lines with Anti Ships Missiles Mobile platform.

Just like StobieWan says, it's more cost effective and mobile using Land Based Missiles platform. You do not need to build any fixed position, just moving around your mobile platform and radar/sensors units.
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Old November 26th, 2012   #10
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Read up on the Russian VA-111 Shkval-E or Iranian "Hoot" missile, a 533mm super cavitation torpedo with a speed of about 200 knots. Some of these were reported to be based on Iranian offshore platforms.
Sure, they are fast, but basically a ballistic weapon because there is no way to guide them. Short ranged too, 9 miles (15km) for the latest Shkval 2, and probably 5 miles (9km) or less for the Hoot assuming it is reversed engineered from the original Shkval design.

I have a concern about the performance these weapons in the anti-ship as opposed to the anti-submarine role that they were originally designed for. Running shallow (6m) at speeds in excess of 50m/sec any accidental up angle is likely to cause the torpedo to broach and lose the bubble, probably resulting in its destruction.
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Old November 27th, 2012   #11
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What's the purpose for any land based torpedo launch system ? ASW ? well you can't done ASW from Land based station I believe. So then it left only for Anti Surface. Well why using Torps for Anti Surface, when you can choke small straits or archipelago lines with Anti Ships Missiles Mobile platform.

Just like StobieWan says, it's more cost effective and mobile using Land Based Missiles platform. You do not need to build any fixed position, just moving around your mobile platform and radar/sensors units.
200 knots isn't Mach 2, no where close. Have you priced 533 mm torpedoes compared to longer range surface to surface missiles? Obviously not...
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Old November 27th, 2012   #12
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200 knots isn't Mach 2, no where close. Have you priced 533 mm torpedoes compared to longer range surface to surface missiles? Obviously not...
Well 533mm torpedoes do priced cheaper than SSM Missiles, however when you put it on shore, most of the time you need fixed positions. In sense you need several fixed positions for shore torpedoes, while with mobile land based SSM, you can have one battery of them moving around on your need in covering similar size of area.

That's mean more economical, with more capabilities. Besides looking the price of Chinese C-705 SSM compared to German Atlas Electronic SUT (both being offered for licensed production and for case of German 533mm SUT already being licensed produced in Indonesia), the costs is not much different. Sorry can't give you the comparison, is not a public data, only have a chance to take a peek on that.
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Old November 27th, 2012   #13
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200 knots isn't Mach 2, no where close. Have you priced 533 mm torpedoes compared to longer range surface to surface missiles? Obviously not...
No doubt that a fixed torpedo platform may not be the best idea in the modern age, however, the original thread was asking about known examples of land based torpedo positions and that was all my answer was meant to provide.

Leaked (stolen) documents show that the Hoot is indeed a copy of the Russian Shkval torpedo. A newer, liquid fuel variant with throttled engines and thrust vectoring is supposed to exist that greatly increases the range while reducing the speed, until the final sprint. Still even if the range were doubled, it falls far short of a surface to air missile.
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Old November 27th, 2012   #14
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Leaked (stolen) documents show that the Hoot is indeed a copy of the Russian Shkval torpedo. A newer, liquid fuel variant with throttled engines and thrust vectoring is supposed to exist that greatly increases the range while reducing the speed, until the final sprint. Still even if the range were doubled, it falls far short of a surface to air missile.
Actually the Shkval 2 is supposed to work the other way around. A quick sprint to the target area, then it slows down and behaves like a conventional homing torpedo. It makes more sense than a blind dash at the last moment.

Missiles, unlike torpedoes, can use the terminal high speed dash because it does not blind their sensors.
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Old November 27th, 2012   #15
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Missiles, unlike torpedoes, can use the terminal high speed dash because it does not blind their sensors.
Technically it does, if we're talking about real high speed, such as experienced by hypersonic reentry vehicles (e.g. Falcon and other HTVs, more generally MARVs).
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