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The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates

This is a discussion on The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates within the Navy & Maritime forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Originally Posted by harryriedl this attachment is from the LM F35 site is their any ALARM replacements in the pipeline ...


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Old August 11th, 2007   #886
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F-35 and ARM

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Originally Posted by harryriedl View Post
this attachment is from the LM F35 site

is their any ALARM replacements in the pipeline

Anyone notise that on the weapons lay out there is NO Anti radiation missile capability listed. A rather interesting ommission, and i am sure one in error.

HARM-E and the MBDA based system are the only 2 i know of forthcoming.

Thoughts please.
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Old August 12th, 2007   #887
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Anyone notise that on the weapons lay out there is NO Anti radiation missile capability listed. A rather interesting ommission, and i am sure one in error.

HARM-E and the MBDA based system are the only 2 i know of forthcoming.

Thoughts please.
The French haven't operated an ARM for some years now, claiming that the effects can now be achieved by using emitter locators to locate a radar, & lobbing a generic PGM at it. AASM will be used in future.
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Old August 12th, 2007   #888
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Indeed, however, there remains 2 ARM's in development, I would be surprized if the Harm development is not intergrated into the F-35's (exturnal) arsenel. Althought with the advent of smaller, cheaper, stand-off PGM's coupled with comprehensive ESM/location could reduce the reliance on ARM to destroy radars.
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Old August 12th, 2007   #889
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The French haven't operated an ARM for some years now
Wasn't that primarily because the ARMAT were expiring shelf life?
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Old August 13th, 2007   #890
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are we now going to have the will they won't they type conversations about the PA2 as we had about the CVF [i hear a cut in defense is happing and the PA2 could be a target under the Sarko government] and isn't their a major spending review in progress
Yes the review is underway. The MPs closest to the defence industry are screaming to save a maximum of programmes. Sarkozy doesn't plan to cut spending but to rationalize it (and potentially cut a few programmes that are less needed or that risk strong overspending). I'm pretty sure PA2 will materialize, though with a CV and the Barracuda SSNs I wonder how much the FREMM programme will have to be cut It seems certain that the 17 planned will go down to 13...

cheers
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Old August 13th, 2007   #891
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Wasn't that primarily because the ARMAT were expiring shelf life?
That's a reason to retire the missiles, not cease deploying any kind of ARM. The ARMATs could have been refurbished (a major job, IIRC, but probably cheaper than new missiles), or a new type developed, or even something imported. None of these was done.
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Old August 14th, 2007   #892
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According to UK press reports and MOD releases the first T45 HMS Daring has just completed the initial month long speed and maneuverability trials resulting in all milestones being exceeded. Daring achieved 31.5 knots - exceeding a target of 28 knots and from a standing start she reached 29 knots in just 70 seconds and apparently comes to a dead halt within 800 yards. The vessel also demonstrated the ability to turn full circle within three ship lengths. The vessel will now be loaded with Astor missiles for the next stage, which will include systems and weapons testing.

So far, so good, we just now need confirmation of at least two more orders bringing the total to eight.
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Old August 15th, 2007   #893
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Good news Interesting about the speed bit
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Old August 15th, 2007   #894
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According to UK press reports and MOD releases the first T45 HMS Daring has just completed the initial month long speed and maneuverability trials
I presume that the press report you are referring to is the Daily Telegraph one here?

Whilst the speed bit is nice, I wouldn't believe a word of the rest, this is one of the worst researched articles from a newspaper on defence I've seen in a long time (and the Telegraph portrays itself as the force's friend).

Amongst other claims we're told by the Telegraph that Daring will be carrying both Harpoon and Tomahawk, they neglect to mention the CIWS and state that the ship can carry Chinook, Apache or Merlin helicopters. Whilst all of those helicopters can theoretically be carried, the ship will only be equipped to carry the Lynx when it initially comes into service.

Really, really poor reporting.

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Old August 15th, 2007   #895
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Agreed shocking reporting for the 'Torygraph', however the same comments were made by a number of other attendees from the press corps who where present at the demo.

BAE / RN is pushing to advertise the ships capabilities in the hope the Government will sign off on the next two.
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Old August 15th, 2007   #896
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Official release from the MOD

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/De...tSeaTrials.htm

There is also a short piece of film on the BBC website which I have been unable to provide a link to.
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Old August 15th, 2007   #897
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..Amongst other claims we're told by the Telegraph that Daring will be carrying both Harpoon and Tomahawk, they neglect to mention the CIWS and state that the ship can carry Chinook, Apache or Merlin helicopters. Whilst all of those helicopters can theoretically be carried, the ship will only be equipped to carry the Lynx when it initially comes into service.

Really, really poor reporting.

Will.
Agreed. A good day for press coverage with the following BBC video clip showing Daring during sea trials...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/c...&nbram=1&asb=1

Hmm... if the link doesn't work its on news.bbc.co.uk or delete the defencetalk preamble...

Enjoy!

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Old August 15th, 2007   #898
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Official release from the MOD

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/De...tSeaTrials.htm

There is also a short piece of film on the BBC website which I have been unable to provide a link to.
Well at least the MOD website confirms that crew are pleased with the accommodation standards and that it performed magnificently during sea trials. Commander David Shutts comments were interesting:

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"The ship has performed magnificently during our initial sea trials over the past few weeks. In addition to being incredibly stable, smooth and rapid, she is also extremely agile with a very tight turning circle indeed. Further, she can come to a halt from top speed in less than three hull lengths.

"Having also spoken to many experienced colleagues at BAE Systems, I think that we are all agreed that this is the best first of class initial sea trial that any of us has ever experienced. Clearly, this bodes very well for the future ships."
http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/De...tSeaTrials.htm

It does seem that the Type 45s are off to a very promising beginning. Let's hope that as well as hulls 7 and 8 being built, that all will be fully equipped rather than being "fitted for but not with."

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Old August 15th, 2007   #899
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Well at least the MOD website confirms that crew are pleased with the accommodation standards and that it performed magnificently during sea trials. Commander David Shutts comments were interesting:



http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/De...tSeaTrials.htm

It does seem that the Type 45s are off to a very promising beginning. Let's hope that as well as hulls 7 and 8 being built, that all will be fully equipped rather than being "fitted for but not with."

Tas
but to be honest it would be nice to just have last 2 hulls
how are the horizon classes doing are they both still in sea trials
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Old August 15th, 2007   #900
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I presume that the press report you are referring to is the Daily Telegraph one here?

Whilst the speed bit is nice, I wouldn't believe a word of the rest, this is one of the worst researched articles from a newspaper on defence I've seen in a long time (and the Telegraph portrays itself as the force's friend).

Amongst other claims we're told by the Telegraph that Daring will be carrying both Harpoon and Tomahawk, they neglect to mention the CIWS and state that the ship can carry Chinook, Apache or Merlin helicopters. Whilst all of those helicopters can theoretically be carried, the ship will only be equipped to carry the Lynx when it initially comes into service.

Really, really poor reporting.


Will.


....Having been away on "company business" for the last 29 days,(which is IDENTICAL in time length to how long Daring was @ sea.....) I've not had access internet or e-mail.....




I've read the comments made in the Telegraph (via the link above), & watched some of the BBC coverage this morning. I have to say in my personal opinion that there are no apparent untruths in any of the comments made via either medium.

As others have also said it would be great for the UK GDP, as well the engineering industrial complex & the shipbuilders to have all the promises backed up with some ink on paper.....


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Last edited by Systems Adict; August 16th, 2007 at 06:12 PM. Reason: Additional txt added
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