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Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

This is a discussion on Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates within the Navy & Maritime forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Originally Posted by AMTP10E The exact load out policy is classified (and a complete load of garbage if you ask ...


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Old April 5th, 2007   #76
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The exact load out policy is classified (and a complete load of garbage if you ask me). As for Harpoon, I'm pretty sure that if they ain't visible then they haven't got any onboard. I don't think they can load them anywhere execpt alongside.
Thanks for that. Very interesting...

Tasman, there was an FMS announcement a couple of years back where Australia ordered 64x brand new Harpoon Block II "live" missiles from the US.

They should at least have enough missiles to completely equip the fleet of ANZAC's without any reloads...
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Old April 6th, 2007   #77
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Thanks for that. Very interesting...

Tasman, there was an FMS announcement a couple of years back where Australia ordered 64x brand new Harpoon Block II "live" missiles from the US.

They should at least have enough missiles to completely equip the fleet of ANZAC's without any reloads...
Thanks AD.

I have seen the FMS announcement which was made way back in October, 2002 (see link below), but wondered if the missiles have actually all been delivered.

http://www.dsca.osd.mil/pressrelease...alia_03-04.pdf

As well as the new missiles, retrofit kits have been ordered to update earlier Harpoon missiles to Block II standard.

http://www.boeing.com/ids/news/2004/q1/nr_040223m.html

Hopefully additional missiles will be acquired to allow for reloads and test firing.

Cheers
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Old May 8th, 2007   #78
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Some info from the 2007 Budget

Whilst selection of the big ticket items (AWD and LHD) are scheduled to be made later this year there were a number of interesting statements re RAN equipment that appeared in budget attachments:

These include:

Sea 1428 Phase 2A ESSM

All Anzac-class frigates have been fitted with the Evolved Seasparrow Missile System.

SEA 1390 Ph 2.1 — Guided Missile Frigates (FFG) Upgrade - Implementation

"There are known deficiencies with the underwater warfare systems, electronic support system and Australian Distributed Architecture Combat System software. Under the provisions of the contract, work by the prime contractor is to continue to rectify deficiencies before HMAS Sydney’s acceptance, which is scheduled for late 2008. HMAS Sydney’s initial operational release is due in mid-2007. HMAS Melbourne is planned for provisional acceptance in late 2007. HMAS Darwin is to complete the upgrade docking in mid-2007. HMAS Newcastle is scheduled to enter the upgrade docking in late 2007."

SH-2G(A) Super Seasprite Helicopter

The Super Seasprite is currently suspended from flying due to issues with the automatic flight control system. A final Government decision on the future of the Super Seasprite is expected later this year.

SEA 1779 Ph 1 — Ships Self Defence Capability Rapid Acquisition - for the supply of 25mm Bushmaster Naval Variant Cannons, and for the supply and integration of the Toplite, Mini-Typhoon and Typhoon systems.

Phase 1 of the project will provide a dual level ship self defence capability for HMA Ships Kanimbla, Manoora and Tobruk. This capability will provide better defence against watercraft, land targets, helicopters and floating mines. The capability will consist of an integrated fire control system comprising the Rafael Typhoon and Mini-Typhoon weapon systems, and Toplite electro-optical director system. The 25mm Bushmaster naval variant cannons are to be integrated to provide the cannon for the Typhoon system.

To meet urgent operational deployment needs, an interim solution comprising Toplite and Mini-Typhoon for two ships was provided in November 2006. This, and additional hardware, including Typhoon, will be used in the final installations on all three ships. Additional hardware is scheduled to be available in late 2008.

The ship modification design package is scheduled for delivery in May 2007. Contracts will then be placed for the modification of the ships to meet those designs with a planned completion date of February 2008. Operational release of the first ship is scheduled for August 2008, with project completion in February 2009.

http://www.defence.gov.au/budget/07-..._PBS_09_s2.pdf

It was pleasing to read that ESSM is now fitted in all of the Anzacs. I was interested that the 25mm Typhoon system is being acquired as well as Mini Typhoon (I seem to remember this being mentioned before but it is the first time I have seen confirmation of funding). The problems with HMAS Sydney's upgrade are obviously not fully solved and the Seasprite saga continues.

Cheers
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Old May 9th, 2007   #79
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Whilst selection of the big ticket items (AWD and LHD) are scheduled to be made later this year there were a number of interesting statements re RAN equipment that appeared in budget attachments:

These include:

Sea 1428 Phase 2A ESSM

All Anzac-class frigates have been fitted with the Evolved Seasparrow Missile System.

SEA 1390 Ph 2.1 — Guided Missile Frigates (FFG) Upgrade - Implementation

"There are known deficiencies with the underwater warfare systems, electronic support system and Australian Distributed Architecture Combat System software. Under the provisions of the contract, work by the prime contractor is to continue to rectify deficiencies before HMAS Sydney’s acceptance, which is scheduled for late 2008. HMAS Sydney’s initial operational release is due in mid-2007. HMAS Melbourne is planned for provisional acceptance in late 2007. HMAS Darwin is to complete the upgrade docking in mid-2007. HMAS Newcastle is scheduled to enter the upgrade docking in late 2007."

SH-2G(A) Super Seasprite Helicopter

The Super Seasprite is currently suspended from flying due to issues with the automatic flight control system. A final Government decision on the future of the Super Seasprite is expected later this year.

SEA 1779 Ph 1 — Ships Self Defence Capability Rapid Acquisition - for the supply of 25mm Bushmaster Naval Variant Cannons, and for the supply and integration of the Toplite, Mini-Typhoon and Typhoon systems.

Phase 1 of the project will provide a dual level ship self defence capability for HMA Ships Kanimbla, Manoora and Tobruk. This capability will provide better defence against watercraft, land targets, helicopters and floating mines. The capability will consist of an integrated fire control system comprising the Rafael Typhoon and Mini-Typhoon weapon systems, and Toplite electro-optical director system. The 25mm Bushmaster naval variant cannons are to be integrated to provide the cannon for the Typhoon system.

To meet urgent operational deployment needs, an interim solution comprising Toplite and Mini-Typhoon for two ships was provided in November 2006. This, and additional hardware, including Typhoon, will be used in the final installations on all three ships. Additional hardware is scheduled to be available in late 2008.

The ship modification design package is scheduled for delivery in May 2007. Contracts will then be placed for the modification of the ships to meet those designs with a planned completion date of February 2008. Operational release of the first ship is scheduled for August 2008, with project completion in February 2009.

http://www.defence.gov.au/budget/07-..._PBS_09_s2.pdf

It was pleasing to read that ESSM is now fitted in all of the Anzacs. I was interested that the 25mm Typhoon system is being acquired as well as Mini Typhoon (I seem to remember this being mentioned before but it is the first time I have seen confirmation of funding). The problems with HMAS Sydney's upgrade are obviously not fully solved and the Seasprite saga continues.

Cheers
Outside the recruiting/retention stuff, the most important bit of the Defence budget is the extra $4billion for logistics (especially for the ANZACs, helos, and subs). If we didn't get that then we were going to be in really deep trouble not that far down the track.
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Old May 9th, 2007   #80
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Outside the recruiting/retention stuff, the most important bit of the Defence budget is the extra $4billion for logistics (especially for the ANZACs, helos, and subs). If we didn't get that then we were going to be in really deep trouble not that far down the track.
I guess the Seahawks are being worked fairly heavily given our reliance upon them...

Is there any word on when the FLIR/ESM upgrades on the Seahawks will be completed?

Another "brilliantly" conducted project by Tenix on behalf of ADF...
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Old May 9th, 2007   #81
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I guess the Seahawks are being worked fairly heavily given our reliance upon them...

Is there any word on when the FLIR/ESM upgrades on the Seahawks will be completed?

Another "brilliantly" conducted project by Tenix on behalf of ADF...
We should see the first couple done by the end of the year. When will it finish, God only knows and even then he'd be needing a very lucky day.
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Old May 9th, 2007   #82
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Outside the recruiting/retention stuff, the most important bit of the Defence budget is the extra $4billion for logistics (especially for the ANZACs, helos, and subs). If we didn't get that then we were going to be in really deep trouble not that far down the track.
Spending on logistics probably doesn't appeal to politicians because it’s not as glamorous as a new jet that you can stand in front of for a photo shoot. It was interesting today though that DefMin Nelson gave a serve to the previous Labor government when he said that Hornets were being cannibalised for parts to keep others in the air at the time the government changed hands.

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Old May 9th, 2007   #83
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The logistics funding came about after Timor...the first deployment.
There were lack of vital supplies and equipment...and yet you could still get a pizza from Darwin, funny the RAAF priorities. The new system involves the cargo being recorded from supply, transport, to arrival electronically and also marks what is in it when it left, as some diggers on deployment reported certain bits of gear going AWOL while in transit with the USAF and from US Army bases.
While its not glamerous, the people on the ground perhaps care more bout what does arrive then what it arrives in.
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Old May 10th, 2007   #84
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Anzac Anti-Ship Missile Defence (ASMD) - concerns re topweight

The budget papers regarding SEA 1448 Phases 2A and 2B which deal with Anzac Anti-Ship Missile Defence (ASMD), have raised a few concerns about any future upgrades that may be planned for this class.

Phase 2A seems to have identified topweight as an issue with the Anzacs:

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Ship weight and stability, particularly topweight, is being carefully managed to reduce risk.
http://www.defence.gov.au/budget/07-..._PBS_09_s2.pdf

(Section 2, pages 278-281)

The Australian ships don’t carry the Phalanx CIWS that is mounted above the hangar on their Kiwi cousins, but they already have Nulka installed (a 2x 4 mount above the hangar and a quad mount P&S), and the change from Sea Sparrow to ESSM has added another 24 missiles in the VLS position which is also placed quite high up in these ships. The RAN ships also carry a heavier helicopter than their NZ counterparts. Great care is obviously being taken to ensure that stability will be preserved with the fitting of the new radar, including a redesign of both fore and after masts. Consequently it now seems to me that the fitting of a second bank of 8 VLS cells and/or a VSRAD system will be extremely problematic at best.

I would be interested to hear from our professional members re this issue.

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Old May 11th, 2007   #85
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The budget papers regarding SEA 1448 Phases 2A and 2B which deal with Anzac Anti-Ship Missile Defence (ASMD), have raised a few concerns about any future upgrades that may be planned for this class.

Phase 2A seems to have identified topweight as an issue with the Anzacs:



http://www.defence.gov.au/budget/07-..._PBS_09_s2.pdf

(Section 2, pages 278-281)

The Australian ships don’t carry the Phalanx CIWS that is mounted above the hangar on their Kiwi cousins, but they already have Nulka installed (a 2x 4 mount above the hangar and a quad mount P&S), and the change from Sea Sparrow to ESSM has added another 24 missiles in the VLS position which is also placed quite high up in these ships. The RAN ships also carry a heavier helicopter than their NZ counterparts. Great care is obviously being taken to ensure that stability will be preserved with the fitting of the new radar, including a redesign of both fore and after masts. Consequently it now seems to me that the fitting of a second bank of 8 VLS cells and/or a VSRAD system will be extremely problematic at best.

I would be interested to hear from our professional members re this issue.

Cheers
As pointed out here the ANZACs do indeed have top weight issues (and growth margin issues in general which is one of the reasons why I prefer the G&C over the F100) but I can't exactly say if they prevent Phalanx being mounted.
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Old May 11th, 2007   #86
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what about installing ram missiles instead of ciws?

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/ram.htm
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In the end RAM is the successor of Phalanx. It is better against missile/air threats but it totally lacks some kind of surface attack capability.
With the current fear of some kind of swarm attack by small boats in brown waters Phalanx now has an additional role.
In my eyes some GPMGs, HMGs and autocannons (20-30mm) are enough against such threats. So use RAM as CIWS and leave the close quarter surface defense to the other weapon systems.
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Old May 11th, 2007   #88
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In the end RAM is the successor of Phalanx. It is better against missile/air threats but it totally lacks some kind of surface attack capability.
snip
Waylander, this is a query from an armchair 'googler'.
There are URLs out there that suggest that some form of (proposed?) RAM version is surface to surface capable.
eg
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/fact_di...0&tid=800&ct=2

Is this old info that never amounted to anything, or a proposed/possible future block upgrade?

rb
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Old May 11th, 2007   #89
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I know some guys in our navy and this is what they told me about RAM when I talked to them about this topic.
Our ships use RAM and so I just listened to them.

I also haven't heard about a possible surface attack capability of future RAM versions.
But I also don't thing it is worth the money. There might be a possible threat by swarm attacks but it is much easier and in my eyes more effective to just put some additional small calibres weapons onto the vessel which are cheaper, easier to handle and also usefull in harbors, etc.
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Old May 11th, 2007   #90
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RAM Block 2 will have anti surface capabilities. The development contract was signed recently.

See MarineForum (German).

Together with the MLG-27 for example that should provide protection against swarm attacks.
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