This is a discussion on Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates within the Navy & Maritime forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Originally Posted by SASWanabe
Naval base plan to bring job bonanza
am i the only one who doesnt see the ...
am i the only one who doesnt see the point in a base on the Gold Coast?
almost no present port infrastructure, no present Military Infrastructure. the nearest Army/Airforce bases are in Brisbane anyway
I'm with you, crazy idea dreamed up by the white shoe brigade! Still better, why doesn't defence buy some really big dredges so we can turn all the waterways into suitable passages for deep water shipping, it won't cost much!!!
am i the only one who doesnt see the point in a base on the Gold Coast?
almost no present port infrastructure, no present Military Infrastructure. the nearest Army/Airforce bases are in Brisbane anyway
The Gold Coast is the home of Canungra a major defence base (home of defence intelligence training) and is closer to Amberley and Enoggera than many of the bases in the Sydney basin are to each other (by travel time if not crows flight).
But the story and the proposal is total nonsense dreamt up for local consumption only. The Gold Coast has a major boat industry but that’s because boats are small and don’t need much water depth to get to the sea. But any RAN vessel bigger than a patrol boat could never be based on the Gold Coast because all the waterways are too shallow.
The navigable depth of the Gold Coast Broadwater is no more than 4m. Tough luck basing any RAN ships there...
The Gold Coast is the home of Canungra a major defence base (home of defence intelligence training) and is closer to Amberley and Enoggera than many of the bases in the Sydney basin are to each other (by travel time if not crows flight).
But the story and the proposal is total nonsense dreamt up for local consumption only. The Gold Coast has a major boat industry but that’s because boats are small and don’t need much water depth to get to the sea. But any RAN vessel bigger than a patrol boat could never be based on the Gold Coast because all the waterways are too shallow.
The navigable depth of the Gold Coast Broadwater is no more than 4m. Tough luck basing any RAN ships there...
The Gold Coast is the home of Canungra a major defence base (home of defence intelligence training) and is closer to Amberley and Enoggera than many of the bases in the Sydney basin are to each other (by travel time if not crows flight).
But the story and the proposal is total nonsense dreamt up for local consumption only. The Gold Coast has a major boat industry but that’s because boats are small and don’t need much water depth to get to the sea. But any RAN vessel bigger than a patrol boat could never be based on the Gold Coast because all the waterways are too shallow.
The navigable depth of the Gold Coast Broadwater is no more than 4m. Tough luck basing any RAN ships there...
But that would be perfect! The Austal MRV 80 only has a draft of 3.2 m so that would fit, and as the story said, dredging would become the responsibility of the Federal gov't so if they wanted the RAN to have something with larger draft there, they could...
-Cheers
________________
"I'm doing the same thing I do every night, Pinky..." comment from one lab mouse to another.
Just sounds like stupid local politics to me, some local member trying to look like he is doing something for a dwindling local economy that is traditionally based on tourism.
Iron ore will peak at about $160 a tonne this quater but will drop. Working on $150 per tonne and 10000 tonnes per hours (which is not the fastest laod rate) means that an iron ore berth will lose 1.5 million per hour where the berth is not available.
<snip>
I am not defending the miners but a resourse rent tax may work better if you hit compnies onthe basis of thier ownership percentage with those ith significant Australian ownership paying less than the one that are fully foreign owned. At least that would encourage Australian ownership and some of the profit would stay here.
Roll on soveriegn wealth fund....................... bugger I am dreaming again.
I was just pointing out the cognitive dissonance at work here. Miners complain that the RAN isn't around. Miners use all wharf space available. RAN at fault for not being around.
I think they use similar logic when it comes to mineral ownership, rights and royalties.
Although finding fault with many of the opinions expressed, I loved the documentary The Corporation for comparing the behaviour of corporations (who have most of the rights of an individual, but none of the social responsibilities of an individual) against a mental illness diagnostic criteria. The conclusion? Corporations are psychopaths!
To be frank, I'm in two minds as to the worth of the mining industry to the Australian economy. Great for WA, sucks if your economy is based on manufacturing, agriculture, services or anything else that isn't mining. Everything is great if you work in the mining industry and you can live like a cashed up bogan, meanwhile large areas of the Australian economy not devoted to extracting and exporting large amounts of ore to far flung places are withering. Cashed up mining interests pay a lot in tax, but businesses that are struggling due to the high dollar are paying less taxes (and employ a lot more people than the miners). How long before the Australian economy is as hollow as that of a Gulf state?
Just like politics where a long-term plan goes out to four years and a lifetime is eight years, there is no thought to sustaining a company further than the tenure of a CEO and his/her next bonus via a 5% share price bump.
What happens when mineral reserves start being exhausted and we no longer value-add (Australian processing into metals, manufacturing, etc) and we didn't save any of the income (a sovereign wealth fund)? It wasn't that long ago we were saying Australia had black coal and iron ore reserves to last hundreds of years, now it is 100 and 70 years. Zinc, gold, manganese will last less than that. Diamonds is something like 15 years. Wow, better hope we either find more deposits or demand doesn't keep increasing.
<Sarcasm mode: On>
Accelerating extraction of everything and selling it all now is a great idea, because it is not as if demand is going to continue growing as China and India develop into post-industrial economies. And as we all learned in Economics 101 when supply diminishes as mineral resources are exhausted the prices of the resources goes down. So we should be selling everything off now as quickly as it can be extracted, shipped and value-added in China.
<Sarcasm mode: Off>
But this is a forum for discussing military matters that are paid for by mining and not the politics of mining, so that is that last I'll bleat on about the matter.
Gents, I vaguely remember that there were some hints given, from those who know, that Success was inoperable, possibly for good. Something to do with shaft alignments post the double-hulling.
Heard nothing since. Has anyone (possibly Icelord?) got the latest?
I was just pointing out the cognitive dissonance at work here. Miners complain that the RAN isn't around. Miners use all wharf space available. RAN at fault for not being around.
I think they use similar logic when it comes to mineral ownership, rights and royalties.
Although finding fault with many of the opinions expressed, I loved the documentary The Corporation for comparing the behaviour of corporations (who have most of the rights of an individual, but none of the social responsibilities of an individual) against a mental illness diagnostic criteria. The conclusion? Corporations are psychopaths!
To be frank, I'm in two minds as to the worth of the mining industry to the Australian economy. Great for WA, sucks if your economy is based on manufacturing, agriculture, services or anything else that isn't mining. Everything is great if you work in the mining industry and you can live like a cashed up bogan, meanwhile large areas of the Australian economy not devoted to extracting and exporting large amounts of ore to far flung places are withering. Cashed up mining interests pay a lot in tax, but businesses that are struggling due to the high dollar are paying less taxes (and employ a lot more people than the miners). How long before the Australian economy is as hollow as that of a Gulf state?
Just like politics where a long-term plan goes out to four years and a lifetime is eight years, there is no thought to sustaining a company further than the tenure of a CEO and his/her next bonus via a 5% share price bump.
What happens when mineral reserves start being exhausted and we no longer value-add (Australian processing into metals, manufacturing, etc) and we didn't save any of the income (a sovereign wealth fund)? It wasn't that long ago we were saying Australia had black coal and iron ore reserves to last hundreds of years, now it is 100 and 70 years. Zinc, gold, manganese will last less than that. Diamonds is something like 15 years. Wow, better hope we either find more deposits or demand doesn't keep increasing.
<Sarcasm mode: On>
Accelerating extraction of everything and selling it all now is a great idea, because it is not as if demand is going to continue growing as China and India develop into post-industrial economies. And as we all learned in Economics 101 when supply diminishes as mineral resources are exhausted the prices of the resources goes down. So we should be selling everything off now as quickly as it can be extracted, shipped and value-added in China.
<Sarcasm mode: Off>
But this is a forum for discussing military matters that are paid for by mining and not the politics of mining, so that is that last I'll bleat on about the matter.
I was in Port Hedland, WA, three years ago visiting my sister and I know exactly what you mean by the wharf space. BHP were extending the wharves then to take six ore carriers up two from four. The whole operation is run around getting those carriers loaded and out. When I flew in there were about 12 ore carriers anchored offshore waiting to be loaded and I was told that is SOP. At that time it took 30 hours to load each ship and they are 300K tonne vessels. BHP for all intents and purposes owns the town and what they say goes. Methinks it will take a very long time for the iron ore in the Pibara to run out. The holes they have dug may be up to 5km across but in the context of the landscape they are nothing, not even a pinprick on a blue whales stern, and she's iron ore in every direction you care to look at. Thats what gives the interior its famous red colour. Kalgoorlie will be long out of opals and other gems before the iron ore runs out.
Gents, I vaguely remember that there were some hints given, from those who know, that Success was inoperable, possibly for good. Something to do with shaft alignments post the double-hulling.
Heard nothing since. Has anyone (possibly Icelord?) got the latest?
I do, but not too much i can say, cept that shes worth as much as the two LPAs tied up on base right now...
I do, but not too much i can say, cept that shes worth as much as the two LPAs tied up on base right now...
I would love to see the contract between defence and ST Marine. The sad truth however is that, probably, the ship was too old to be converted, the cost benefit was marginal and the government, once again, tried to keep a capability on the cheap and Navy will cop the flak.
I hope I'm right with this assumption because if the conversion was asked for by navy I'll feel deeply ashamed by the outcome.
I would love to see the contract between defence and ST Marine. The sad truth however is that, probably, the ship was too old to be converted, the cost benefit was marginal and the government, once again, tried to keep a capability on the cheap and Navy will cop the flak.
I hope I'm right with this assumption because if the conversion was asked for by navy I'll feel deeply ashamed by the outcome.
AFAIK navy had it scheduled for replacement in 2015 as part of JP2048 orignally, once the LHDs were inbound, success would be replaced with Part D. With the requirement for double hulling becoming a bigger issue, and new budget priorities by new govt, it was shelved and the idea of double hulling success became apparent.
The contract become a farce when she sailed for singapore, then had to sail to WA to off load what fuel was left as the dock would not take what they had onboard, and the float back to singas on fumes...
The whole program has been a tradgedy, and a waste of money. this was tobruk all over again, instead of a new ship to replace an older one, we held on to what we had and upgraded. the fact the job was required to be done overseas should have started warning bells, and yet here we are
AFAIK navy had it scheduled for replacement in 2015 as part of JP2048 orignally, once the LHDs were inbound, success would be replaced with Part D. With the requirement for double hulling becoming a bigger issue, and new budget priorities by new govt, it was shelved and the idea of double hulling success became apparent.
The contract become a farce when she sailed for singapore, then had to sail to WA to off load what fuel was left as the dock would not take what they had onboard, and the float back to singas on fumes...
The whole program has been a tradgedy, and a waste of money. this was tobruk all over again, instead of a new ship to replace an older one, we held on to what we had and upgraded. the fact the job was required to be done overseas should have started warning bells, and yet here we are
I could never understand why we would spend money double hulling an old ship, I felt the same about the fitting of 25mm Typhoons to the LPAs which obviously had a limited life ahead of them. At least with the Typhoons we will be able to re use them (perhaps on Choules for starters) but the cost of the fitout is down the drain.
AFAIK navy had it scheduled for replacement in 2015 as part of JP2048 orignally, once the LHDs were inbound, success would be replaced with Part D. With the requirement for double hulling becoming a bigger issue, and new budget priorities by new govt, it was shelved and the idea of double hulling success became apparent.
The contract become a farce when she sailed for singapore, then had to sail to WA to off load what fuel was left as the dock would not take what they had onboard, and the float back to singas on fumes...
The whole program has been a tradgedy, and a waste of money. this was tobruk all over again, instead of a new ship to replace an older one, we held on to what we had and upgraded. the fact the job was required to be done overseas should have started warning bells, and yet here we are
And the fact that it was not actually required by law to be done, but rather a decision by the Government to do it. Total waste of money better spent on starting the process of looking for her replacement
I could never understand why we would spend money double hulling an old ship, I felt the same about the fitting of 25mm Typhoons to the LPAs which obviously had a limited life ahead of them. At least with the Typhoons we will be able to re use them (perhaps on Choules for starters) but the cost of the fitout is down the drain.
Tas
Well at least it was only a minors project, so the install costs weren't very high (by defence standards) and they provided a capability whilst the vessels were operational...
