US: F-16s + AWACS for Pakistan - will congress approve?

Oqaab

New Member
Admin edit: 10-01-Lets change this thread a little bit from upgrading f-16s to providing NEW AC for PAF since there is a lots of news out there saying that US might give f-16s and AWACS to Pakistan to balance out the conventional imbalanced caused by Indian drive to acquire weapons from Israel and other countries.

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US will upgrade F-16s: Pakistan

September 30, 2003 18:47 IST

Pakistan on Tuesday said the United States has agreed to supply it with modern weapons systems and upgrade its fleet of 20-year-old F-16 jets.

"The Pentagon has agreed to help suffice the country's defence needs to effectively check the imbalance of power being created by India in the region," Pakistan Defence Secretary Lieutenant General (retd) Hamid Nawaz said in Islamabad.

However, some of the major items sought by Pakistan have to be approved by the US Congress, including matching systems to counter the Phalcon radar systems being acquired by India from Israel, he said.

He said Pakistan handed over a list of equipment at the Pakistan-US Defence Coordination Group meeting two weeks ago in Washington.

"They agreed to our list except for two, three items that need approval from the US Congress," he said.

However, the joint statement issued after the DCG meeting did not list any major items except supply of spares for 30 F-16s.

http://us.rediff.com/news/2003/sep/30pak1.htm

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I hope US congress will release F-16s for Pakistan.

PEACE
 

webmaster

Troll Hunter
Staff member
Heres a related info... it doesnt talk about upgrades but giving f-16s. I don't know how much of it is true or not. News is news.

US agree to provide F-16: Secretary Defence

ISLAMABAD: United States has agreed to supply F-16 airplanes to Pakistan if the Congress sanctioned the deal. The US will also provide a 341 million dollars aid to Pakistan for purchase of defence, military equipment.

Federal Secretary of Defence Lieutenant General ® Hamid Nawaz Khan addressing a news conference in the Ministry of Defence here briefing about the Pakistan US Defence Consultative Group's recent meeting in Washington.

After lifting of the US sanctions a new era of bilateral defence relations was began between the two countries, he said. The meeting also discussed the war against terrorism, security and stability in the South Asia.


Source

Edited 10.1.03
US approves the sale of an airborne warning and control system (AWACS), f-16 jets to Pakistan
 

ullu

New Member
Pak might get the jets from belgium!

Pentagon agrees to refurbish F-16 fleet: Belgium may sell jets to Pakistan


By Rafaqat Ali

ISLAMABAD, Sept 30: The Pentagon has agreed to refurbish Pakistan's depleted fleet of F-16s and allow Belgium to sell two squadrons of the aircraft to Pakistan.

However, the Pentagon's acceptance of Islamabad's demand for improving its air force would need approval from the US Congress, said Defence Secretary Hamid Nawaz Khan.

Mr Khan, who had recently led a team to US for procurement of military equipment, told a news conference here on Tuesday that the Pentagon officials had agreed to Pakistan's demand that its fleet of 40 F-16 aircraft should be refurbished. The Pentagon was convinced that the fleet was depleted when Pakistan fought for US interests in Afghanistan after the defunct USSR had invaded it.

"We got full assurance from the Pentagon that Pakistan's demand would be accepted by the US Congress," he said.

The defence secretary said Belgium had some F-16 jets and wanted to sell those to Pakistan but added that a US clearance was needed for the purpose. He said the Pentagon had accepted Pakistan's demand for issuing the clearance certificate to Belgium.

He said the equipment that Pakistan wanted to purchase from the US include a radar system of high quality to match the Indian radar system which it was acquiring from Israel. A clearance from the US Congress would be required for that too, he added.

Without giving details of the weapons systems that Pakistan wanted to purchase under the $3 billion assistance package, the defence secretary said "a major breakthrough was made".

He said the US officials had offered that if Pakistan sent troops to Iraq then they would show "great leniency" in the sale of equipment to it.

In reply to a question what Islamabad had been given in return for extending cooperation to Washington, he said Pakistan had got security and elaborated "the Indians would have done the same to Pakistan what Northern Alliance had done to the Taliban-ruled Afghanistan."

Referring to India's purchase of arms from Israel, the official said the US had been asked to help Pakistan in enhancing its capability, because in case of imbalance in conventional weapons, Pakistan's reliance on nuclear deterrence would increase. The US officials said that Washington had no legal power to stop Israel from selling weapons systems to India, he added.

Mr Khan dispelled the perception that the US aid could be used only for acquiring equipment to counter terrorism. The assistance for combating terrorism was separate from the $3 billion aid package, half of which could be used for military purchases, he elaborated.

He said that issues like emergence of anti-Karazi forces in Afghanistan were also discussed. Pakistan, he pointed out, had been telling the US that guarding the long, porous border with Afghanistan was not possible. He said it was conveyed to the US that Pakistan needed proper equipment to seal the border.

About the US-India growing ties, the official said that US officials had assured them that Washington's relations with Islamabad were independent of its relations with New Delhi.

The defence secretary said Pakistan's indigenization programme was bearing fruit. Pakistan in collaboration with China had developed F-17 Thunder aircraft, he added. Submarines were being developed whose technology was transferred to Pakistan by France, he said and added that Al Khalid tank was one of the best in the world.

The official said that with the passage of time things would get difficult for the US in Afghanistan. He said it would not be possible for Afghanistan for two decades to raise an army that could pose challenge to Pakistan. He, however, stressed that Pakistan wanted to keep good relations with the people of Afghanistan.

The Defence Consultative Group which was co-chaired by US Undersecretary of Defence Douglas J. Feith and Mr Khan also met the US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. The next meeting will be held in Islamabad.

-Dawn
 

PAF GIRL

New Member
here what i found stil needs to be approved by congress! :roll :roll :roll

Pakistan Says U.S. Has Agreed To Refurbish its F-16 Fleet

By AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE, ISLAMABAD


The United States has agreed to modernize Pakistan’s fleet of F-16 fighter jets and provide fresh military hardware to help in the pursuit of Taliban and al-Qaida fugitives, Pakistan’s top defense bureaucrat was quoted as saying Oct. 1.

“In addition to providing us modern equipment, the U.S. would also modernize and refurbish our existing fleet of F-16 aircraft,†Defense Secretary Hamid Nawaz Khan said according to the official Associated Press of Pakistan (APP).

However the U.S. made no promise to sell additional F-16s to its key war-on-terror ally, a move Pakistan has been seeking ever since the lifting of military sanctions which had prevented the handover of 28 F-16s it purchased in the late 1980s.

Khan was speaking on the outcome of Sept. 15-18 talks between Pakistani and U.S. defense officials in Washington, at which Pakistan presented a list of military equipment needed to curb alleged Taliban infiltrators on its western border with Afghanistan.

“Pakistan has handed over a list of modern equipment required by our three forces including Army, Navy and Air Force,†he said, without specifying the equipment. “They agreed to our list except for two to three items, which need approval from the U.S. Congress.â€

Pakistan has been accused by Afghanistan of not doing enough to block infiltration by resurgent Taliban fighters allegedly regrouping in western Pakistani tribal regions.

Richard Armitage, U.S. deputy secretary of state, on Sept. 30 challenged the commitment of Pakistan’s military to blocking the regrouped Taliban, saying in Washington: “I do not think affection for working with us extends up and down the rank-and-file of the Pakistani security community.â€

Pakistan says its forces are underequipped to effectively patrol and seal the porous 2,450 kilometer border.

Khan said Pakistan needs from the U.S. “proper surveillance system and financial resources to check any illegal activity†along its border with Afghanistan.

“Whatever our requirements are in the sector, these have to be provided by the U.S. in their own interests,†he said.

The Pentagon said in an official statement in late September that it agreed to prioritize helping Pakistan improve its ability to operate against the Taliban and al-Qaida, particularly in its tribal areas.
 

Oqaab

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
Well, now a days we are hearing several rumours. According to Jang, US will upgrade Pakistani F-16s and will also give some F-16s to make the number of F-16s 40 in PAF. Western sources says that Pakistan is negotiating for 28 F-16s from US and another 20 from belgium ...... :? Anyways, lets see.
 

The Watcher

New Member
Slowly and world media is picking up the story... maybe its true?

Islamabad, Oct. 1: The Pentagon has agreed to refurbish Pakistan’s depleted fleet of F-16s and allow Belgium to sell two squadrons of the aircraft to Pakistan.

However, Pentagon’s acceptance of Islamabad’s demand for improving its air force would need an approval from the US Congress, said Pakistan defence secretary Hamid Nawaz Khan.

Rest of it here:
http://www.asianage.com/main.asp?layout=2&cat1=4&cat2=37&newsid=71554&RF=DefaultMain
 

Oqaab

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  • #8
And todays Jang newspaper says that Belgium will take final decision on sell F-16s to Pakistan after 3 months.
 

PAF GIRL

New Member
US is not going to approve any weapons sales to Pakistan. Its all talk in the press conferences but actual decisions are made in the congress and we all know who rules there.
 

Oqaab

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  • #10
I read a report yesterday from hindustan times which says that US refused to sell offensive weapons to Pakistan, while Congress hasnt said anything about E-2 hawkeye AWACS for Pakistan.
 

umair

Peace Enforcer
The congress may approve of the 6-10 E2-C Hawkeyes requested for as they are classed as defensive in nature. :roll
 

Oqaab

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  • #12
The congress may approve of the 6-10 E2-C Hawkeyes requested for as they are classed as defensive in nature.
6-10 E-2 hawkeyes ????

Man, one or two are enough for a country like Pakistan. India is getting only 3 Phalcon AWACS systems. :)
 

Kung Fu Fighter

New Member
I know Pak is in very serious trouble as its sees India moving leaps and bounds to get ,militarily superior. This is already true as Pakistan's best fighter is the old version of the F-16.
India on the other hand not only has the MIG-29 to counter that threat but has a brand new fighter the SU-32Mk.
Even if US gives Pakistan new F-16s (which is highly unlikely), they will be no match for SU-32Mk. Not no mention India has its own satellites that it can use for surveillance purposes. Pak does not even have a space program.

On another note India is currently upgrading all its MIGs and other fighters with the help of Russia & Israel. China can not provide Pak with the stuff Israel is providing as it too does not have it.

I think that whole region is seeing a big shift in US policy. Its kind of like Turkey that is part of NATO due to strategic reasons.

In this century in South Asia , India has become the strategic partner of the US/Israel. There is no turning back. US sees India not only as an a friend in war against terror(as india is not Islamic, 80% Hindu) but also a nation of over a Billion people who can counter communist China. Having India as a strategic partner will be very help full for US, far more then Pakistan. The cold war is over and Pakistan is no longer considered that important.
Further more many people in Washington are becoming increasingly impatient with Pakistan's in-ability to get Bin laden. Many feel ISI is protecting him.
Pakistan is in big trouble as it now has very few friend who can really help it counter India's military might. Besides the way we see it in the US, Pakistan should not even try to match with India as its a much bigger nation.
I feel it be much better for Pakistan to stop competing with India and blowing billions on stupid arms.
It be better for Pakistan to spend on education like India and produce doctors,engineers and IT professional . India is moving Fwd economically while Pakistan is Flat. If Pakistan does not do something about its economy it will end up like the USSR. Spending more then it earns on defense
 

ullu

New Member
IF pakistan can get hawkeyes it will be more than enough.... maybe pakistan with help of china can modify it in the future to extend its range and abilities.

kang-fu, pakistan needs to spend on Defense otherwise war mongers in Indian government would do anything to wage war when they see weak pakistan. Yea doctors and engineers should be the priority but docs and engineers wouldn't save pakistan when extremists from india decide to attack pak. Except china and some friends in middle east I don't think anyone would help. Even if someone wants to help they wouldn't because of US and EU pressure. Israeli along with US do not want to see any islamic country with nukes and so far pakistan is like a big dagger in their hearts-which is good because nukes are the only thing keeping everyone from attacking pakistan. :)
 

Black Mamba

New Member
US & us

i think it's abt time v started to search for alternate sources of military equipment and stop relying on US hardware
the US has always been an unreliable source for us and it's all talk and no action
they didn't supply us with AWACS at the height of the afghan war and vr expecting them to do that now?
even the british r more reliable than these guys
MR
 

Oqaab

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  • #16
On another note India is currently upgrading all its MIGs and other fighters with the help of Russia & Israel. China can not provide Pak with the stuff Israel is providing as it too does not have it.
Pakistan is also upgrading its Mirage III and Mirage Vs. China is helping us a lot by selling us Frigates with ToT, Tanks with ToT, aircrafts with ToT(some components) and Missiles with ToT. China also offered Pakistan the J-11 (Chinese Su-27) but Pakistan is more interested in F-16s, mirage 2000-5s and Eurofighters.

China will be selling us FT-2000 AWACS killer missiles and Pakistan may get the technology of this missile as well.

I dont think Israel help India that much.

PAK-CHEEN dosti Zindabad.
 

Kung Fu Fighter

New Member
Pakistan is also upgrading its Mirage III and Mirage Vs. China is helping us a lot by selling us Frigates with ToT, Tanks with ToT, aircrafts with ToT(some components) and Missiles with ToT. China also offered Pakistan the J-11 (Chinese Su-27) but Pakistan is more interested in F-16s, mirage 2000-5s and Eurofighters.

China will be selling us FT-2000 AWACS killer missiles and Pakistan may get the technology of this missile as well.
My Answerto that is : If you do your reaserch you will realize China does not have very High-Tech stuff and can not help Pak too much. All the up grades you mentions are not that great.

You are very wrong about Isreal not helping india. Its a joke that you know so little on the issue. isreal today is the 5 th largest seller of defence products , thanks to india. India is buying about 2/3 billion $ worth of products from them every year (for the last 3/4 years).

Before India started buying stuff from them they were not even ranked num 20 in the world. That should give you a clear idea how much India is buying from them.
On a different note, Israel is at the moment working on the deal to sell India the Arrow missile . Its the best air defensive system in the world produced jointly by Israel/USA.
If India gets that , Pak nukes would be no good as they will be shot down long before hitting there targets.
The bottom line is , no matter how many nukes Pak has, Pak can never win a full scale war with India. India will win . There in no question about that in any ones mind.
If Pak fires a Nuke at India, many will die but India is so big that it will live through it . If a tiny nation like Japan can, India will have no problem.

But guess what will happen to Pakistan in return when India fires back. Pakistan will get wiped out completely. Its so small that it wont survive the multiple strike.

You are also very wrong in the understanding of average Indians. Indians are not war mongers. They don't want any war with any one. Its Pakistan which started this mess by backing militant outfits to fight in Kashmir.

After separation , Pakistan was created and that was it. Pakistan can not come back after a few years and say, we want more land. It does not work that way.

If Pakistan stop's it support for militants in Kashmir you will see a lot of good things happening in that region. India and Pak can become good neighbors giving economic growth, to India/Pakistan.

If Pak does not stop with its obsession of Kashmir , its will be a disaster for all.

Yes you are right about one thing, the Hindu right wing are not like the Gandhi/Nehru who will accept a cease fire from Pakistan in event of a war. They are crazy and will finish Pakistan completely.

I hope there is never a war and that educated people in both countries will work hard to prevent it at all costs.
 

Oqaab

New Member
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  • #19
The actual topic was not about Indo-Pak relations or Kashmir, but it was about JF-17 aircraft. So better stick to the topic. :!:
 

webmaster

Troll Hunter
Staff member
Kangfu, please stick with the topic. No need to start india vs pakistan flame wars.

If you wish to speak on the issue please open a new thread along with REFERENCE to your claims and members would be happy to discuss them with you.

Thanks

Admin
 
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