FC-1/Jf-17 has finally been taken to the skies, is it the road to success

kilo_4que

New Member
The super 7 or more appropriately known as the Jf-17 Thunder has finally taken to the skies on various occasions. What do u guys think, is it a success or is it just our world of fantasies.

The fighter has completed successfuly a few short test flights carrying out various manouvers however, the prime concern is that the production version is to have a chinese engine which is not what the current version has. Moreover, the current engine is much better than the chinese version.

So please give me ure thoughts
 

Red aRRow

Forum Bouncer
The JF-17 is a success and its short development time along with its successful test flight shows the diligency of the Pakistani and Chinese scientists. The plane is equipped with Quadruplex FBW, BVR armament and full look down shoot down capability. Its a big event in the Pakistani and Chinese defence industry. :pak :china
 

Frozen Hell

New Member
Considering Pakistan and its third-world status - I believe its a very good and big sucess for pakistan. As an American I slute Pakistan's efforts! Its a huge step forward. ;)

Then again, its a long way from f-18s and f-22s. :D
 

kilo_4que

New Member
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This is one factor which all dont agree to. The JF-17 may at present not be upto date withthe likes of F-18 and certainly not the F-22, but you do have to remember that at present it is still in its proto type faze where the max speed hasnt even been justified. Intended with a max speed of mach 1.6 to 1.7, it has been said that the max speed is mach 1.8 for definate and 1.6 as normal cruise speed. Of course in combat these speeds are not going to be used, they are too quick for even routine sorties to take place never mind intercepting anf full out attack.
 

ullu

New Member
Some specs:

Revealed as the successor of the cancelled Sino-US Super-7 project, FC-1 (Fighter China-1, max TO weight 12,104kg, max speed 1.8M, ceiling 18,000m, max weapon load 3,900kg, ferry range 3,000km, max g load +8.5) is being developed by CAC/611 Institute (with some technical assistance from Russian Mikoyan OKB) as a "medium tech", light weight fighter/ground attack aircraft carrying a relatively cheap price tag (~$20m). As a fighter designed for export, its main customer is expected to be Pakistan who also shares 50% of the total cost ($150m so far). It may also compete with second-hand F-16s to seize the market left by the retirement of Mig-21s, Mirage III and F-5s. Powered by a Russian RD-93 turbofan (an upgraded RD-33), it might also be powered by a domestically produced engine (Kunlun II or locally produced RD-93?) if it ever enters the service with PLAAF. The A-6 style "V" shaped air-intakes are believed to provide smooth air flow to the engine at high AoA. The aircraft might also be fitted with an inflight refueling probe and a deck arrester hook. The fire control radar is expected to be either Elta EL/M-2032 or FIAR Grifo S7. A locally designed radar may be installed on domestic version. Other avionics include a 25° field of view HUD, two MFDs and INS/GPS. However some of them have not been finalized. Weapon load includes both short (AIM-9P/PL-9/Magic 2) and medium-range AAMs (Aspide/SD-10). LGBs and laser designatin pod can also be carried for precision strike missions. Pakistan planed to acquire at least 150 JF-17s (Joint Fighter-17/Thunder) and demanded equal commitment from PLAAF as well. The first prototype of FC-1 was set to fly in 1998, but the schedule was repeatedly postponed caused by various problems, such as lack of funding, the reluctance of western countries to supply advanced avionics, as well as the revised specifications set by PAF to counter the threat from India's LCAs. These specifications include a new digital quadruplex FBW system (in pitch only, still mechanical in roll) and a true BVR attack capability with active radar guided medium-range AAMs (SD-10). In addition, FC-1's prospect in the domestic market has not been that promising, as PLAAF has largely committed to the more advanced J-10 as its next generation fighter along with Su-27/J-11 and is reluctant to take any FC-1 due to its extensive western content and a Russian engine. By 1999, Pakistani government finally signed the contract with CATIC and CAC/611 and gave the "go ahead" order to the much delayed project. A full-scale mock-up was constructed in early 2001. The riveting of the first prototype formally started on September 16, 2002. 12 FC-1s may have been ordered by PAF and the first aircraft may be delivered in 2004. Some of the FC-1 production may eventually be transferred from CAC to Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC). The latest news suggested 4 prototypes (01-04) are being built at CAC, some of which may be fitted with EL/M-2032 radars. The 01 prototype rolled down the assembly line on May 31, 2003 without a glass cockpit and and a PD radar. Its first low-speed taxi test occurred on June 27, 2003 and its maiden flight took place on August 25, 2003, carrying two dummy PL-5E AAMs at wingtips. Meanwhile 02 prototype is undergoing static stress test at CAC.
 

ovais

New Member
The FC-1/JF-17 , like Shumayel said, is a state of the art, low cost, frontline multirole attack aircraft. Lets not compare apples and oranges while comparing F-22's and JF-17. F-22 is an aerial superiority aircraft, and like it or not, its manuverability on lower altitudes and ground support roles is however limited. Also, the costs of F-22 manufacturing and maintainance can be a huge drain on the budget. The JF-17 is not only suited for interceptor roles, ground support but also sea missions. Statistically, it has outperformed the F-16 for manuverability, which itself speaks of aerodynamic ingenuity.

In short, the FC-1/JF-17 is JUST what the PAF needs. State of the art aerodynamics, latest avionics, multirole applications and low manufacturing and maintainance costs, make one hell of an aircraft. It won't be long when the Pakistani Fighter Aircraft industry will be producing advanced aircrafts on its own.
 

Frozen Hell

New Member
When it enters full production in 06, how much would it cost? I am guessing its going to be very cheap! Chinese Labor. :D :lol
 

ovais

New Member
The cost per unit that was estimated when the project started was $10 million. But a lot of improvements and modifications to the aircraft's performance have affected the program's costs, and if the final production order if fewer than 300 aircraft the unit price will rise from the original $10 million to $15 million. But when it will be built indigeneously, the expected price is even less than $10 million.

This is coparitively very cost effective. Some prices of other aircraft are quoted below for comparison.

LCA (Light Combat Aircraft - India) = $17-$20 million
Lockheed Martin F-16 = $ 27 million
McDonald Douglas F-A/18 = $ 40 - 60 million
Grumman F-14 Tomcat = $ 38 million
McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle = $43 million
Dessaault Mirage 2000 = $ 23 million
Lockheed Martin F-22 = $ 200 million
Northrop Grumman B-2 Spirit = $ 2.1 billion
 

ovais

New Member
Yes, i apologize for that. I just checked back on the figures on LCA and it costs from 26-30 million USD.

And speaking of the LCA, please note that it is far inferior to the Mirage 2000, which entered service with IAF twenty years ago. The LCA will cost twice as much as the Mirage 2000 and the forex cost will be more than the total cost of the Mirage 2000. And for india, there is hardly anything indigenous about it –– not even the paint.

Also, the Indian authorities have completely ignored the national interest in this case. It is utterly absurd that they are trying to develop the Light Combat Aircraft [LCA] with specifications well beyond the capability of the Indian aerospace industry. And on top of that they want to import the AJT (Advanced Jet Trainer) which is well within Indian capability! The only result is that they will end up importing both the AJT and the LCA.

So the LCA fails on all counts –– no cost savings, no forex saving, no development of indigenous industry, no indigenous competence, no performance improvement.

On top of all this, the project cost has quadrupled from Rs5.60 billion ($129 million) to Rs21.88 billion for the development phase with the production phase still awaiting clearance. The unit cost of each LCA assessed at Rs100 million in 1985 had increased to between Rs800 million and Rs850 million, according to the CAG.

So, the LCA is nothing but a BIG burden on the Indian economy and a bigger evidence of the liberal but absurdly negligent Indian defence spendings.
 

webmaster

Troll Hunter
Staff member
The current date set for induction of LCA is around 2012-thats from Indian sources. Good luck to IAF!
 

ovais

New Member
and that means IAF will be flying (rather..crashing) Mig-21's for a decade more. Hats off to the Indian government.
 

ullu

New Member
Don't know if you guyz read this!


Pakistan and China have agreed on an initial production run of 500 versions of their new jointly developed FC-1 fighter jet, known in China as the Xiao Long, after Chinese military objections were overruled. China's air chiefs preferred to concentrate on getting the long-delayed and more sophisticated J-10 into service. But after heavy lobbying by Pakistan and by China's influential China Aero Technology Import and Export Co. and by the manufacturer, Chengdu Aircraft Industry Co., the deal is going ahead. Pakistan's Air Force is taking 150, China has now agreed to take 200, and the remainder are aimed at export markets. The new warplane, based on the Russian MiG-33 (declined by the Russian air force) and equipped with Russian RD-93 turbofan engines, has had its control surfaces redesigned to make it more of a match for the U.S.-built F-16 in maneuverability. The longer production run is supposed to bring the unit price down to $10 million. The joint development project has so far cost the two countries $500 million.

JF-17 is based on mix-33? :eek
 

Oqaab

New Member
Russian Mikoyan was involved in the JF-17 project with China and hence the aircraft has some Mig-33 features. This is the reason why Pakistan will get 50% technology of Jf-17 and that will be the technology of Chinese origin parts.
 

wangsky

New Member
i wonder why india why don't spend its money on people's well being. fourty years ago tried to grab tibetan from china, till today, part of chinese land still occupied by them. the repeated sabre-rattling in the south asia make us bored, i personally believe india to be a bellicose country. as a underdeveloped country, why india can't bury the hatchet and make peace with his neighbors? can advanced fighters or weapons really bring india peace and development?
 

ullu

New Member
Actually India loves to wet-dream about becoming regional and world power. Hindus yet so backward tend to believe that they can rule over anyone considering they were ruled over for 1100 years by Muslims. It won't be easy to get rid of their "seek revenge" delima any time soon. :D
 
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