India sounds out US to test new 'boutique bomb'

[Panzer]

India sounds out US to test new 'boutique bomb'

A report says the country has developed a mini-nuke for use on the battlefield

Friday, April 23, 2004

Maseeh Rahman in New Delhi

Almost six years after India exploded a series of nuclear bombs under the Rajasthan desert, its defence scientists are said to have successfully developed "mini-nukes" capable of use on the battlefield.

Quoting New Delhi-based diplomatic sources, a German newspaper said yesterday that India had sounded out Washington about testing state-of-the-art, low -yield nuclear bombs.

If India's possession of so-called mini-nukes is confirmed, it will radically alter the military equation with nuclear rival Pakistan.

News of the battlefield weapons comes just a day after New Delhi agreed to Pakistan's proposal for talks involving nuclear experts aimed at restoring confidence in their relationship. The talks are scheduled for May 25 and 26.

India stunned the world in May 1998 by conducting five underground nuclear tests at Pokharan, close to the Pakistani border.

New Delhi claimed the tests included a 43 kilotonne thermo-nuclear device, a 12 kilotonne bomb, and three miniature bombs of less than one kilotonne. Mini -nukes would pack a blast of less than one kilotonne. India's tests were followed by six underground tests by Pakistan.

Both countries began developing a nuclear arsenal after the tests. Experts estimate India today has about 55 to 110 bombs, while Pakistan has up to 48.

Both have also continued to develop short- and long-range missiles capable of targeting each other's military installations and population centres.

Although the manufacture, maintenance and command and control of mini-nukes, sometimes known as "boutique bombs", is extremely complex, India is said to possess the research and development capability to make such weapons.

Anti-nuclear campaigners see any introduction of mini-nukes as potentially "a very dangerous development that lowers the threshold for nuclear war".

"Mini-nukes don't make sense as they don't assure deterrence between two nuclear rivals," said Achin Vanaik, co-author of South Asia on a Short Fuse.

"They are dangerous because these are 'usable' nuclear weapons, and the moment one side uses it the other side will feel justified in using whatever bombs it has in its nuclear arsenal."

New Delhi may be encouraged to test the mini-nukes following the decision by US President George W. Bush last year to develop such bombs, lifting a 1993 ban in the United States against developing low-yield atomic weapons.

But Washington, which under President Bush has quietly dropped American opposition to India's development of nuclear weapons, has yet to respond to New Delhi's overtures regarding testing of the mini-nukes, the Berliner Zeitung said.

India reportedly wants to test the new weapon off its eastern seaboard, possibly on an uninhabited island in the Bay of Bengal.[/]

In recent military stand-offs, Pakistani generals have openly talked of using nuclear weapons in the event of India's armed forces making deep incursions into Pakistan.

According to one theory, Islamabad would escape international condemnation if it were to drop a regular nuclear bomb from an aircraft - not on an Indian population centre but on a large invading force within its own territory.

Pakistan is not known to have the capability to produce a mini-nuke, and experts say it would take it at least 10 years to develop a battlefield bomb.

Link
http://asia.scmp.com/asianews/ZZZ5NFQEXRD.html

 

[suleman]

As far as i know Pakistan does have the capability to develop small nukes and Pakistan started working on it much earlier.Sorry cant provide any link or any prove.

 

[mysterious]

[Admin Edit: Myst, grow the hell up already. Post relevent replies or suffer from post deletion.]

 

[Soldier]

As far as i know Pakistan does have the capability to develop small nukes and Pakistan started working on it much earlier.Sorry cant provide any link or any prove.

I do not think Suleman that you need to provide a link as far as I am concerned. I think China did share miniature nuke technology with Pakistan before India could develop it for its own use. I remember reading in the Indian newspapers comments by Army Chief that since India did not have miniatured Nuke to target Pakistani troop concentration and obviously Pakistan had it, India would consider that as a nuclear attack and respond.

India has been able to develop it for field use now himself or with any country's help, that is something I do not know but I do know for sure that Pakistan had it before India with China's assistance.

 

[adsH]

As far as i know Pakistan does have the capability to develop small nukes and Pakistan started working on it much earlier.Sorry cant provide any link or any prove.

I do not think Suleman that you need to provide a link as far as I am concerned. I think China did share miniature nuke technology with Pakistan before India could develop it for its own use. I remember reading in the Indian newspapers comments by Army Chief that since India did not have miniatured Nuke to target Pakistani troop concentration and obviously Pakistan had it, India would consider that as a nuclear attack and respond.

India has been able to develop it for field use now himself or with any country's help, that is something I do not know but I do know for sure that Pakistan had it before India with China's assistance.

Soldier i hope this is never used its a scary scenario even rumors of such a weapon used could cause a nuclear exchange even if india uses it on pakistani forces concentration. i doubt pakistan would just sit there and not reciprocate with full force SCARRY indeed!!. if india nukes Pakistan it should nuke'em the first time and fully or else it would mean retaliation in the same unconventional means!!

and with both countries acquiring Early warning system(AWACS) they would be able to tell if nukes are headed there ways. in a way it will reduce the misconception, that only nuke attack could be detected by word of mouth and if you have a HAWK whose loud mouth can't stop spilling out bulls that would mean the end of a civilization. this is why the US never wanted these two nations to acquire such weapons if only india had these weapons, then they would threaten paksitan all the time and if both have it they both threaten each other!!! when will this madness end !!!

 

[Soldier]

I guess the fear of nuclear annihilation by both countries will never let both countries go for an all-out war. The recent peace-gestures are great and I wish they continue from Indian Politicians too. I do realize that it is Indian Politicians who try to give lollypops to Pakistanis and I can not say the same about Pakistanis since most of the time it is ruled by military which tends to be always better then politicians. The one real peace gesture was of Atal Bihari to go to Pakistan by bus, but I guess things went wrong all the way due to Kargil stuff which I will not talk about as that always tends to invite flame. Anyhow the timing was wrong that time.

This is also wrong to say that Indian people will overthrow that GOI which gives even a single inch of Kashmir to Pakistan. In a democratic country, if Government wants they can always change the mind of the people artfully and people will accept it, if they know that if things are settled for once and for all, there will be great cooperation between two countries, I think they will go for it. The best starting point for that would be to imprison these fanatics like Shiv-Sena Supremo Bal Thackeray, Togadia & Imam Bokhari....the three biggest troublemakers and they shall come hard on rest of the fanatics..
Wish I was a dictator like Musharraf, the first thing i would have done would have been to get these three guys shot dead.

 

[adsH]

I guess the fear of nuclear annihilation by both countries will never let both countries go for an all-out war. The recent peace-gestures are great and I wish they continue from Indian Politicians too. I do realize that it is Indian Politicians who try to give lollypops to Pakistanis and I can not say the same about Pakistanis since most of the time it is ruled by military which tends to be always better then politicians. The one real peace gesture was of Atal Bihari to go to Pakistan by bus, but I guess things went wrong all the way due to Kargil stuff which I will not talk about as that always tends to invite flame. Anyhow the timing was wrong that time.

This is also wrong to say that Indian people will overthrow that GOI which gives even a single inch of Kashmir to Pakistan. In a democratic country, if Government wants they can always change the mind of the people artfully and people will accept it, if they know that if things are settled for once and for all, there will be great cooperation between two countries, I think they will go for it. The best starting point for that would be to imprison these fanatics like Shiv-Sena Supremo Bal Thackeray, Togadia & Imam Bokhari....the three biggest troublemakers and they shall come hard on rest of the fanatics..
Wish I was a dictator like Musharraf, the first thing i would have done would have been to get these three guys shot dead.

LOL musharaf does have alot of power!! but if you look at Pakistan today it stands at a much better position then it did about 10 years ago! it's becasue of his objective driven rule. he considers him self Kamal attaturk of Pakistan(i bet he expects nothing less than a statue after his rule for his reforms) I would say he acts like him(KAttaturk )and certainly his idol is him he said it him self, he grew up in turkey he speaks Turkish he feels home when he goes there, he admires there system there fore you see the sudden change in the Pakistan's stance!!

 

[adsH]

No , It is not , It is US interest which help Pak floating on surface. Neither Musharaf or any other politian can do anything , where 60&% fo recourses are eaten by army , more then 60% population uneducated and less people pay income tax and low industral bases

Ok if were debating, 38.9 percent literacy lol i am not sure if it has changed as basic literacy does not count for the religious scriptures that is Arabic that alot of people can read, Ie urdu happen to be similar. not alot of people pay taxes Firstly there is alot of joblessness and secondly there is too much corruption!, And about military eating up 60 percent check your stats becasue apperntly your facts are questionable for one conversation according to you or some one else, pakistans 80 percent of its resources is used to for loan repayments, in a second conversation you say that Pakistan 60 percent resources are eaten up by the military. If you look at pakistan's economy now it has dramitally imporved since 2000 and it has reached macro economic stability wtih 5+ percent growth which is expected to increase to 8% sooner or later, it is now in the process of becoming a FTA country which will boost FDI form american firms that would like to use cheap labour in Pakistan and ship equipment back to the us and Else where. the Gwader port will have two super tanker Docks that would be used to dispense the vast oil supply of central russia that have no other route to sell there Oil reserves. Pakistan would gain enormous amounts of trasit fees and port utilization fees!! the property prices in pakistan are sky rocketing especially the port city of Karachi and now Gwader
Pakistan's other sources are mainly agriculture and Coal, but massive Gas reserves havn't been explored that is what those chinese are doing in Baloachistan !!

 

[Soldier]

IndianGuy, A stable and happy Pakistan is in India's interest too, provided it wasn't a Nuclear Power, which it is. When a country becomes a nuclear power and has WMD's it better be stable as otherwise it is a volcano waiting to erupt and destroy everything along with itself.
No wonder US wants Pakistan afloat.. I am sure India itself wants Pakistani economic progress as that means less fanatism in the country.

 

[adsH]

IndianGuy, A stable and happy Pakistan is in India's interest too, provided it wasn't a Nuclear Power, which it is. When a country becomes a nuclear power and has WMD's it better be stable as otherwise it is a volcano waiting to erupt and destroy everything along with itself.
No wonder US wants Pakistan afloat.. I am sure India itself wants Pakistani economic progress as that means less fanatism in the country.

I know Soldier you never meant this but form your last message it seemd to me that economic uncertainity = Fanatism, i would actually agree and disagree with that i agree because when pakistan was going thorugh a stage where it almost collapsed teh fanatics were trying to controll the country by forceing the clever more normal people out of the country a Brain drain !! so the fanatics were getting more air time and they are alot more vocal gianing supremicy over subcontinet/indian/Pakistani culture. when econnomic stability started to take effect the government tried to control these irregular voices they are stil trying but it isn't easy these voices still echo in some backward and more midevel cultured provinces like the Baloach and NWFP (NWFP is the engineering brains of pakistan) where change hasn't occured for like a good millennium. i think these voice can't be supressed as they do come from the 10 percent of the naition that are very vocal and very violent !! they enjoy support from the NWFP/Baloach tribes and the 30 million afghani refugees (who now are very difficult to remove)

 

[Soldier]

IndianGuy, A stable and happy Pakistan is in India's interest too, provided it wasn't a Nuclear Power, which it is. When a country becomes a nuclear power and has WMD's it better be stable as otherwise it is a volcano waiting to erupt and destroy everything along with itself.
No wonder US wants Pakistan afloat.. I am sure India itself wants Pakistani economic progress as that means less fanatism in the country.

I know Soldier you never meant this but form your last message it seemd to me that economic uncertainity = Fanatism, i would actually agree and disagree with that i agree because when pakistan was going thorugh a stage where it almost collapsed teh fanatics were trying to controll the country by forceing the clever more normal people out of the country a Brain drain !! so the fanatics were getting more air time and they are alot more vocal gianing supremicy over subcontinet/indian/Pakistani culture. when econnomic stability started to take effect the government tried to control these irregular voices they are stil trying but it isn't easy these voices still echo in some backward and more midevel cultured provinces like the Baloach and NWFP (NWFP is the engineering brains of pakistan) where change hasn't occured for like a good millennium. i think these voice can't be supressed as they do come from the 10 percent of the naition that are very vocal and very violent !! they enjoy support from the NWFP/Baloach tribes and the 30 million afghani refugees (who now are very difficult to remove)

I do not deny that adSH. but once people who are living in poverty start to live in riches, they have no reason to waste their time on fanatism since money moves them around. The same can be said of India or for that matter any country. A person can implement his fanatic activities only when he has time enough to devote but when he is busy making money..everything comes last. Don't you think so? I sincerely think, with riches Pakistan will have less fanatics or there will be masses to close their mouths. As you said yourself that when the economic conditions in Pakistan started to improve, government is trying to control them and they are limited to some places. You do not expect wonders to happen overnight as it s a long process, but its very much possible.

 

[adsH]

IndianGuy, A stable and happy Pakistan is in India's interest too, provided it wasn't a Nuclear Power, which it is. When a country becomes a nuclear power and has WMD's it better be stable as otherwise it is a volcano waiting to erupt and destroy everything along with itself.
No wonder US wants Pakistan afloat.. I am sure India itself wants Pakistani economic progress as that means less fanatism in the country.

I know Soldier you never meant this but form your last message it seemd to me that economic uncertainity = Fanatism, i would actually agree and disagree with that i agree because when pakistan was going thorugh a stage where it almost collapsed teh fanatics were trying to controll the country by forceing the clever more normal people out of the country a Brain drain !! so the fanatics were getting more air time and they are alot more vocal gianing supremicy over subcontinet/indian/Pakistani culture. when econnomic stability started to take effect the government tried to control these irregular voices they are stil trying but it isn't easy these voices still echo in some backward and more midevel cultured provinces like the Baloach and NWFP (NWFP is the engineering brains of pakistan) where change hasn't occured for like a good millennium. i think these voice can't be supressed as they do come from the 10 percent of the naition that are very vocal and very violent !! they enjoy support from the NWFP/Baloach tribes and the 30 million afghani refugees (who now are very difficult to remove)

I do not deny that adSH. but once people who are living in poverty start to live in riches, they have no reason to waste their time on fanatism since money moves them around. The same can be said of India or for that matter any country. A person can implement his fanatic activities only when he has time enough to devote but when he is busy making money..everything comes last. Don't you think so? I sincerely think, with riches Pakistan will have less fanatics or there will be masses to close their mouths. As you said yourself that when the economic conditions in Pakistan started to improve, government is trying to control them and they are limited to some places. You do not expect wonders to happen overnight as it s a long process, but its very much possible.

Absolutely rite soldier but we should always remind our selves about Iran the revolution, there was absolute freedom to do anything there, no Morality was evident there, but the onnly thing that caused such an overturn was the fact the people had lost control of there nation no decoracy no power of expression rich were getting ritcher while poor were modestly stable but enough to think they were being exloited, Democracy is key, Education is key and Joblessness no Education and no health care no government spending on people are the real threat that makes extreme voices of society shine out even though they reamin in the minute minorities, these Fanatics breed on poor and Illiterate people's support while they try and enforce the type of rule that exsist in Iran !! these Fanatic leadeers don't go ralling support, around ritch area of pakistan's street neither do they go to well funded schools or INstitutions, they go around looking for poor UNchallenged impoverished minds that can be brainwashed there agenda, the minds that they can groom up to work like they wan't it to. these people have to be checked in any society and must be caught out!! they claim they are Islamic but so is the rest of the population but you don't see them displaying fanatical terrorists tendencies.

About the 30 milion Afghanis in pakistan well i think they will slowly be Sent back Pakistan is too Focussed on there own development and the fact that they are collecting biometric data on there civilians and they are creating numerous database systems and a centralized system to keep track of every citizen means that they will soon be getting rid of all extra foreigners who are there to make the population more Fanatical!! All bill payments house taxes and any sort of thing you do in Pakistan requires new biometric data Id Cards. which are compulsary for any individual to hold and display on request. so i think Taxation problems and fraud should be fixed soon. i just wish those 30 million afghanis are sent back to afghan they have made a mess out of a beautiful city like Karachi!! Once the most progressive and modernized city of pakistan. the foreign refugees are creating socio economic problems such as burdening the Education system and the Healthcare system which is Free to an great Extent.