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A really nice account of Pak Navy's psycological hold over Indian Navy.

This is a discussion on A really nice account of Pak Navy's psycological hold over Indian Navy. within the Navy & Maritime forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; AA. I hope the fasts are going well. Those of you who have contributed to the F-16 question ...many thanks. ...


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Old November 3rd, 2003   #1
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A really nice account of Pak Navy's psycological hold over Indian Navy.

AA. I hope the fasts are going well. Those of you who have contributed to the F-16 question ...many thanks.

I found this interesting articles on an Australian website dealing with issues relevant to their strategic situation.

[Admin Edit] Please do not attack people of other countries like that.]
The direct websitr add is:

http://www.fourays.org/submarine/paksubhist2.htm.

Shame about Ghazi but hats off to Pak Navy strategists.

----
Pakistan experience in submarine warfare holds lessons for all

Among other recommendations the 1986 Dibb Report states:

"In view of the very limited regional submarine capability, there is no need to enhance our already considerable ASW forces."

However at the time Pakistan, India and China were negotiating with Soviet and Western shipyards with a view to creating or expanding their submarine forces. By the year 2000 all these nations possessed a considerable submarine fleet - most of them with a long range capability which would enable them to operate within Australian waters or to interdict Australian trade routes within South East Asia. This asks yet more questions about the wisdom of placing too much reliance on closeted academics to formulate defence strategies.

While one may also question whether Pakistan, India or China could be considered potential adversaries, any sensible defence strategy should be taking their submarine capability into account. For example one could never predict accurately what the effect on Australia would be of an all out nuclear conflict between Pakistan and India.

While we in Australia may find the Pakistani - India conflict somewhat baffling in its complexities, there are lessons to be learned from Pakistan's use of submarines in this lengthy confrontation. While traditionally we don't think of India or Pakistan as major naval powers, both nations rely on sea transportation for vital trade. Both nations have developed a significant naval capability and have studied the naval lessons of WW1 and WW2.

Perhaps the most significant lesson is that Pakistan has demonstrated that a few submarines, boldly and imaginatively deployed are capable of inflicting damage and disruption far in excess of their capital costs. This lesson was demonstrated during WW1 and WW2 by the German navy. There are parallels with the deployment of India's solitary aircraft carrier Vikrant - an obsolete capital ship of similar design to Australia's long gone Melbourne - and Germany's reluctance to deploy the battleship Tirpitz for fear of loss. It shows how such a ship can become a liability if not employed aggressively or provided with adequate protection.

The following is reproduced with permission of Lt General Sardar F.S. Lodi. As can be seen the Pakistani experience is interesting indeed.



Lt Gen (Retd) SARDAR F.S. LODI makes a detailed study of the Navy's new induction into modern underwater warfare

An Agosta B-90 submarine manufactured in France sailed into Karachi harbour on Thursday. December 16, 1999. It was commissioned into the Pakistan Navy on December 21, as PNS-M KHALID at a simple and dignified ceremony at the Pakistan Naval Dockyard, where the Chief Executive of Pakistan General Pervez Musharraf was the Chief Guest.

PNS-M KHALID was the first of the three Agosta B-90 submarines ordered from a French company, DCN International in 1994. During its construction, engineers and technicians of the Pakistan Navy were given special training in France including transfer of technology.

During the induction ceremony of the first Agosta B-90 submarine into the Pakistan Fleet the Chief Executive, General Pervez Musharraf said 'we have neither hegemonic designs nor any plans for expansion. We sincerely desire to seek peace in the region but not through the medium of war. The only viable option is to remove the temptation from the minds of potential aggressors by maintaining a credible deterrence'.

The Chief Executive went on to say 'I, therefore, fully endorse the requirements of a strong navy, capable of safeguarding our sea frontiers and Lines of Communication, monitoring and protecting our exclusive economic zone. Continuous efforts are at hand to provide the best available equipment to the Navy despite all economic constraints'.

Paying tributes to the Pakistan Naval Fleet the Chief Executive said. 'It is reassuring to learn that the Pakistan Fleet with its available resources, is in a battle-worthy state, committed to professionalism and capable of preserving the sovereignty of our sea frontiers and maritime interests. We have no alternative but to maintain a strong defence'.

Welcoming the Chief Executive to the induction ceremony of the first Agosta B-90 submarine, Commander of the Pakistan Fleet, Rear Admiral Gulzaman Malik said 'Today's ceremony marks the beginning of an integration process of this state-of-the-art platform into the submarine squadron. We are convinced that PNS-M KHALID will enhance the wartime effectiveness of the potent arm of Pakistan Navy'.

Giving a brief history of the new submarine KHALID the Fleet Commander said that Pakistan and the French firm of DCNI had signed a contract for three Agosta B-90 submarines on September 21, 1994. The first one KHALID has been entirely built in France, while the second and third have been built in Pakistan at the Pakistan Naval dockyard with the collaboration of DCNI of France and the Karachi Shipyard and Engineering Works. 'The programme envisages a very high degree of transfer-of-technology, which is bound to benefit the local industry in improving our indigenous capability'.

The Fleet Commander went on to say 'PNS-M KHALID is the first submarine in this programme and it has been decided that these submarines will henceforth be called as 'Khalid Class Submarines'. These are equipped with an independent air-propulsion system, which is a viable substitute of nuclear propulsion, it will increase the underwater endurance of the submarine. The accomplishment of this task would be a major breakthrough for our technicians while the enhanced autonomy would give the operators a significant edge over their adversary'.

Pakistan has a long history of submarine service going back to June 1, 1964 when the first submarine PNS-M GHAZI, built in the United States was inducted into the Pakistan Fleet. Four Daphne class submarines were purchased from France in 1969-70 and in 1979 two Agosta class submarines were also purchased from France. This small and highly effective submarine arm of the Pakistan Navy, armed with wire-guided torpedoes and later with Harpoon missiles, is a powerful force to be reckoned with and capable of dealing with any aggressor or regional bully.

The induction of the new Agosta B-90 submarine will add a greater punch to the Pakistan Fleet. It has an overall length of 67 meters and a submerged speed of about 40 knots. It can dive deeper than 300 meters and with the help of new technology its submerged endurance capability is over 60 days. It is capable of being equipped with multi-purpose torpedoes and Exocet SM-39 anti-ship missile. Both are capable of being launched while the submarine is submerged.

Pakistan Navy's submarine arm has a great fighting tradition and has created a name for itself in combat. During the 1965 Indo-Pak War, when Pakistan had only one submarine, acquired a year earlier, it was able to bottle-up the Indian Navy while operating outside Bombay (Mumbai) harbour. It was a vertual blockade conducted not against merchant ships but against Naval ships who were reluctant to leave the safety of ports for fear of a lone submarine PNS-M GHAZI, operating in Indian territorial waters outside Bombay.

PNS-M GHAZI under the Command of Commander (Later Admiral) K.R. Niazi operated in Indian territorial waters from 6 to 23 September 1965 and sank two two Indian Warships during the period. The officers and sailors of GHAZI including her Captain were given ten operational awards for gallantry in operations during combat. These included two Sitara-i-Jurat and two Tamgha-i-Jurat.

On the second day of the 1965 Indo-Pak War, Pakistan Naval flotilla ships, BABUR, BADR, KHAIBAR, TIPPU SULTAN, SHAH JAHAN, JAHANGIR and ALAMGIR sailed out of Karachi and headed south towards the Indian Naval base at Bombay. The flotilla was under Commodore S. M. Anwar, Commander of the fleet who flew his flag on board the Cruiser PNS BABUR. The object of this deep sea-foray was to entice the Indian Navy out of their ports and give them battle at Sea. Where they could be dealt with by the submarine GHAZI in conjunction with the surface fleet. The Indian Navy's Western flotilla based in Bombay stayed in port, discretion being the better part of valour, and did not accept battle. On its return passage the Pakistan flotilla bombarded the port of Dwarka hoping that the Indian Naval frigate TALWAR would sail out from Okka next door. But TALWAR also decided to stay in port.

Pakistan Navy's performance in the 1965 Indo-Pak War is vividly described by India's Vice Admiral Mihir Roy, a former Commander of the aircraft carrier VIKRANT and Commander-in-Chief of India's Eastern Naval Command, in his book 'War in the Indian Ocean' published in 1995. He writes, 'But the Bombayites failed to understand the lack of success by the Indian fleet, especially with sirens wailing, Jamnagar attacked and Dwarka shelled. But nonetheless, the naval bombardment of Dwarka with the Indian fleet still preparing to sail was an affront to the sailors in white, who could not understand what was holding the fleet back'.

As Indian Vice Admiral N. Krishnan is reported to have said 'One of our frigates, TALWAR, was in Okka. It is unfortunate that she could not sail forth and seek battle. Even if there was a mandate against the Navy participating in the war, no Government would blame a warship going into action, if attacked. An affront to our national honour is no joke and we cannot laugh it away by saying:

'All the ***** did was to kill a cow'.

As the Indian Army was expanded and revamped after its defeat by the Chinese in 1962, similarly stung by its humiliation in the naval encounter with the Pakistan Navy in 1965 India tripled its naval power in the next six years between 1965-71. This was done in an effort to dominate the Arabian Sea and the Bay of Bengal and project her power into the Indian Ocean, as there was no sea - threat whatsoever to her security.

During the 1971 Indo-Pak War owing to the dread of PNS-M GHAZI the Indian aircraft carrier VIKRANT was moved out of Bombay to Cochin and in October all the way to their eastern sea-board and finally not content even with the security of their massive naval base at Vishakapatnam they had it moved to the back-waters of Port Blair in the Andamans. GHAZI sailed out of Karachi on November 14, 1971, under the Command of Commander Zafar Mohammad Khan and a complement of 92 officers and sailors. GHAZI had to travel 3,000 miles of the Arabian Sea and the Bay of Bengal looking for the VIKRANT. Having failed to locate the Indian aircraft carrier it proceeded to lay mines at the entrance to the Indian eastern Naval base of Vishakapatnam. Where on the night of December 3-4, 1971 it met a tragedy and blew up presumably on its own mine.

Operating in the Arabian Sea another Pakistan submarine PNS-M HANGOR hit an Indian anti-submarine frigate KHUKRI in Kathiawar blowing up its magazine with a torpedo and sinking it in a few minutes. The HANGOR also damaged another Indian Naval ship KIRPAN which managed to escape into shallow waters. The Indian Naval flotilla on their Western sea-board also kept close to their ports and in shallow waters for safety, rarely venturing into the open sea for fear of the submarines being operated by the Pakistan Navy.

During the two major wars with India the Pakistan Navy has successfully kept the nation's sea-lanes open and prevented any interference from hostile Naval forces. The submarine arm has played a vital role in this regard. During the Kargil operations the Indian Navy had announced its intentions of blockading the Pakistani coast-line when required. This statement was for their public consumption only and to raise their sagging morale after the Indian Army and Air Force's incompetence in the fighting on the Kargil heights.

On the arrival of the latest Agosta B-90 submarine India concluded a large sea exercise in the Arabian Sea. Vice Admiral J.S. Bedi Chief of Staff of India's Western Naval Command told reporters that the 15-day exercise in the Arabian Sea saw the test-firing of two missiles and involved 35 ships, four submarines and 30 aircraft. The missiles tested were a surface-to-surface and a surface-to-air, he added without elaborating. 'This exercise was basically to validate concepts devised in the post-Kargil conflict scenario and in a high alert situation', Vice Admiral Bedi said.

The Pakistan Navy is aware of Indian intentions to dominate the Arabian Sea and has the determination and skill to protect the country's sea-frontiers and keep open its sea-lanes. The new Agosta B-90 is a useful and potent addition to its fighting ability.
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Old November 3rd, 2003   #2
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Re: A really nice account of Pak Navy's psycological hold over Indian Navy.



Very nice article Farooq. Good job!

Pakistani military smaller but always had upper hand on INdian military.





Pakistan Navy's submarine arm has a great fighting tradition and has created a name for itself in combat. During the 1965 Indo-Pak War, when Pakistan had only one submarine, acquired a year earlier, it was able to bottle-up the Indian Navy while operating outside Bombay (Mumbai) harbour. It was a vertual blockade conducted not against merchant ships but against Naval ships who were reluctant to leave the safety of ports for fear of a lone submarine PNS-M GHAZI, operating in Indian territorial waters outside Bombay.
PNS-M GHAZI under the Command of Commander (Later Admiral) K.R. Niazi operated in Indian territorial waters from 6 to 23 September 1965 and sank two two Indian Warships during the period. The officers and sailors of GHAZI including her Captain were given ten operational awards for gallantry in operations during combat. These included two Sitara-i-Jurat and two Tamgha-i-Jurat.

Amazing read! And India wants to be a world power when it can't even take on one old sub and few surface ships?
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Farooq, thank you for posting this.

Please keep in mind that we want you to stay in circle of respect when talking about other countries and their people. What you said about Aussies was really uncalled for. Lets avoid that in the future.

Thank You

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Old November 4th, 2003   #4
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Re: A really nice account of Pak Navy's psycological hold over Indian Navy.

farooqjalalmalik,

Thanx for posting such a nice article about Pakistan Navy but u have to respect other members here and avoid giving statements which cause flames. Hope this will not happen again. Ur positive contributions are welcomed.

Thanx.
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Old December 7th, 2003   #5
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Re: A really nice account of Pak Navy's psycological hold over Indian Navy.

The 1971 India- Pakistan war threw up two major surprises.
1) The birth of Bangladesh
2) The second surprise was the bombing of Karachi harbour by the Indian Navy on the night of Dec 4 and 5, and 8 and 9.

This time again also Pakistan turn to be shocked as india dose not have the military capability to attack a heavely defended port. But , what was overlooked by the Pakistan and the rest of the world was that Indian Navy had devised an original piece of thinking.

The Indian Navy decided to use the Soviet Union Accquired OSA class missile boats in an innovative and offensive manner. WHile these boats had a leathel strike cabability, It did not have the endurance to reach Karachi from Bombay, Sovit design these boats for the purpose of harbour and costal defence.

In an unprecedented tactical move, the Indian Navy towed these boats by frigates to reach close to Karachi. Thereafter Streaming on their own, these boats fired a the ships and oil tankers harbouredd at the Karachi and swiftely come back to be towed back to home again.The entire operation , each time, was done in a single night to ensure that Pak land based aircraft, which did not have night flying caapability remains , incapable.

After these attacks, the fire at Karachi raged for 7 days and nights.

The world so stunned by these attacks that forign merchant ships anchored at Karachi sough permission from INDIA for safe Passage in the water around Karachi. It is also promed the US to send its Air Craft Carrier , Enterprise, into Bay of Bangal.

Well i think.. not forget to mention about incapability to protect its own only one port and you are talking about win over IN ... Oh man what a world ,,,
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Re: A really nice account of Pak Navy's psycological hold over Indian Navy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Su_37
The 1971 India- Pakistan war threw up two major surprises.
1) The birth of Bangladesh
2) The second surprise was the bombing of Karachi harbour by the Indian Navy on the night of Dec 4 and 5, and 8 and 9.

This time again also Pakistan turn to be shocked as india dose not have the military capability to attack a heavely defended port. But , what was overlooked by the Pakistan and the rest of the world was that Indian Navy had devised an original piece of thinking.

The Indian Navy decided to use the Soviet Union Accquired OSA class missile boats in an innovative and offensive manner. WHile these boats had a leathel strike cabability, It did not have the endurance to reach Karachi from Bombay, Sovit design these boats for the purpose of harbour and costal defence.



In an unprecedented tactical move, the Indian Navy towed these boats by frigates to reach close to Karachi. Thereafter Streaming on their own, these boats fired a the ships and oil tankers harbouredd at the Karachi and swiftely come back to be towed back to home again.The entire operation , each time, was done in a single night to ensure that Pak land based aircraft, which did not have night flying caapability remains , incapable.

After these attacks, the fire at Karachi raged for 7 days and nights.

The world so stunned by these attacks that forign merchant ships anchored at Karachi sough permission from INDIA for safe Passage in the water around Karachi. It is also promed the US to send its Air Craft Carrier , Enterprise, into Bay of Bangal.

Well i think.. not forget to mention about incapability to protect its own only one port and you are talking about win over IN ... Oh man what a world ,,,
Yeah! and one ONLY ONE PAF Martin B57 responded on the night of 5th December 1971 by attacking Okha naval base.Targets destroyed were the ammo dump,fuel dumps and missile boat jettys.Oh and the Osas hit only a destroyer and a mine sweeper not the Karachi harbour.After the B57 attack on okha no Osas were seen again.The B57's exact TOT was 2247 hrs.
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Re: A really nice account of Pak Navy's psycological hold over Indian Navy.

Quote:
The 1971 India- Pakistan war threw up two major surprises.
1) The birth of Bangladesh
2) The second surprise was the bombing of Karachi harbour by the Indian Navy on the night of Dec 4 and 5, and 8 and 9.

This time again also Pakistan turn to be shocked as india dose not have the military capability to attack a heavely defended port. But , what was overlooked by the Pakistan and the rest of the world was that Indian Navy had devised an original piece of thinking.

The Indian Navy decided to use the Soviet Union Accquired OSA class missile boats in an innovative and offensive manner. WHile these boats had a leathel strike cabability, It did not have the endurance to reach Karachi from Bombay, Sovit design these boats for the purpose of harbour and costal defence.

In an unprecedented tactical move, the Indian Navy towed these boats by frigates to reach close to Karachi. Thereafter Streaming on their own, these boats fired a the ships and oil tankers harbouredd at the Karachi and swiftely come back to be towed back to home again.The entire operation , each time, was done in a single night to ensure that Pak land based aircraft, which did not have night flying caapability remains , incapable.

After these attacks, the fire at Karachi raged for 7 days and nights.

The world so stunned by these attacks that forign merchant ships anchored at Karachi sough permission from INDIA for safe Passage in the water around Karachi. It is also promed the US to send its Air Craft Carrier , Enterprise, into Bay of Bangal.

Well i think.. not forget to mention about incapability to protect its own only one port and you are talking about win over IN ... Oh man what a world ,,,
Here, I would like to shed some light over the Dawarka operation held in 1965.

Operation Dwarka is one of the most significant events of 1965 Indo-Pak war which reflected courage, determination, professional competence, dedication and coordination of the PN personnel involved in it. The objectives of this operation were:

a. To draw the heavy enemy units out of Bombay for the submarine GHAZI to attack

b. To destroy the radar installation at Dwarka

c. To lower Indian morale

d. To divert Indian Air effort away from the north


On 7 September 1965 when the ships were on their normal war patrol, the following signal was received from Naval Headquarters:

“Task group comprising PNS BABUR, PNS KHAIBAR, PNS BADR, PNS JAHANGIR, PNS ALAMGIR, PNS SHAHJAHAN and PNS TIPU SULTAN is to be in position 239 degrees – 120 miles from Dwarka light house by 071800 E Sep with maximum power available. Task group thereafter to carryout bombardment of Dwarka about midnight using 50 rounds per ship. Force is to retire from bombardment area by 080030 E Sep and return to present patrol area at full speed. One or two enemy frigates may be expected to encounter in the area in addition to enemy air threat”

The Commodore Commanding PN Flotilla accordingly originated his signal at 1835, the salient features of which were:

a. The initial position for attack was 206 degrees Dwarka light 6 miles

b. The target was to be city installations and conspicuous chimney

c. Complete radio silence was to be maintained except for guarding air warning radar.

The Fleet immediately topped up fuel and shaped course for Dwarka operation. At midnight the ships were on Initial Position (IP) with all their guns loaded and the men ready to strike a historic punch on enemy’s face. The city of Dwarka was completely blacked out and target could only be identified on radar. At 0024 bombardment was ordered to commence when ships were 5.5 to 6.3 miles from Dwarka light. It took only four minutes to complete the bombardment, firing altogether about 350 rounds on the target. Upon successful completion of the attack the ships retired immediately without any loss or damages. There was no considerable resistance from the enemy and the ships safely arrived at their patrol area by 0635 on 8 Sep.


Source = http://www.paknavy.gov.pk/HISTORY/DW...ory-dwarks.htm
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Old December 7th, 2003   #8
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The 1971 war was the first, and only, occasion when the Indian political leadership exhibited a proper understanding of the use of military power for achieving a clear national aim. In past conflicts, Indian leaders either had no clear aim in mind and were merely reacting to events or they were confused about how best to use the military power available to them. During the 1962 India-China war, for instance, the Indian government ordered the Indian Air Force (IAF) to withdraw its fighter bomber squadrons from the north east and not to hit the invading Chinese.

IAF bombers could have changed the course of the 1962 war had it been allowed to hit the thin and tenuous Chinese logistics lines. Similarly, in the 1965 India-Pakistan conflict, the Navy was ordered to keep its ships in port and not engage in any offensive action against Pakistan. The Pakistani Navy was given a free hand and it managed to lob a few shells at one point in the Western Coast.

The Indian Navy's chance to see some action came only in 1971 December. Since East and West Pakistan were two separate geographical entities more than 1,600 miles apart, the only way Pakistani forces in East Pakistan could be sustained was through the sea. The Indian Prime Minister, Mrs. Indira Gandhi, decided that the Navy would be given the strategic task of denying both East and West Pakistan access to war supplies. The aim in short was a complete naval blockade of both parts of Pakistan. The bigger aim was of course to ensure that the conflict was not perpetuated beyond the time required to capture a chunk of East Pakistani territory.

The Indian Navy's best and biggest warship at that time was its sole aircraft carrier, INS Vikrant, a carefully preserved World War II vintage carrier built in Britain. Ideally, a task force centered around INS Vikrant should have been used to block Karachi, which at that time was West Pakistan's sole deep water port. However, one of INS Vikrant's main boilers was out of operation and the ship could not maintain the kind of speed required for manoeuvring in a situation where the air threat would be considerable. It was decided that the INS Vikrant would be used to blockade the ports in East Pakistan, and destroy the riverine craft used by the Pakistanis there.

INS Vikrant in Action

The day war was declared, the INS Vikrant, which had been anchored off the northern-most tip of the Andaman & Nicobar chain of islands, moved towards the principal East Pakistani port, Chittagong. The Pakistanis, having learnt that INS Vikrant was positioned in the Bay of Bengal, dispatched one of their submarines, PNS Ghazi, to the east.

The Pakistani submarine thought it could sneak into Vizag harbour, the principal naval port in the Indian east coast. It was, however, detected and sunk before it could cause any damage. The INS Vikrant continued unhindered. Rear Admiral (retd.) P.D. Sharma, who was then an aviator aboard the INS Vikrant, recalls what it was like:

"Fighter pilots practice for years and when they finally get an opportunity to see real action, it is thrilling - it is the moment one has been waiting for all one's life. And it was so for us aboard the Vikrant on 4th December 1971...
"
"The first sortie was mounted against Cox's Bazaar. Eight Sea Hawks went in led by the squadron commander. I was in the second sortie which attacked Chittagong. This was in the afternoon of the 4th because it took some time for the Vikrant to close in the range to Chittagong."

"We went in low level, pulled up and carried out repeated attacks on the airfield. In the first attack itself we inflicted considerable damage. We withdrew for the night and sailed towards the Mangla-Khulna area. Our next attacks were on those harbours. Then we came back to Chittagong. And by the time we were through with that area, especially Chittagong harbour, Chittagong airfield and the approaches to Chittagong, the scene was something to be seen. The place had been devastated. There were ships that had turned turtle, there were half-sunk ships by the quay side, the airfield was pockmarked with craters and no ship could even think of approaching the place."

The attack on Karachi

The most dramatic naval plan was drawn up by the Western Naval Command. It was decided that the main attack on Karachi harbour would be launched by tiny PT-15 missile boats instead of regular warships. There were several reasons for this decision. Regular ships without air cover would be vulnerable whereas the tiny missile boats would present difficult, fast-moving targets.

Moreover, the Navy wanted to try out the missiles to see how effective they could be in real action, although this kind of use of missile boats, which were designed for coastal defence and not for long range offensive action of any kind, was highly unorthodox. At any rate, three missile boats were chosen for the mission and dispatched in the dead of night from Bombay harbour.

Leading the missile boat squadron was Commodore (retd.) Babru Bahan Yadav:

"The task given to us was not easy. Our ships were little more than boats and did not have the range to go all the way to Karachi on their own steam. So an oilier was placed about half-way to the target and we were able to refuel and carry on.
As we neared their coast, we found some of their ships patrolling the area. The boat on my left was detailed to engage the contact. That boat was the first Indian warship to fire a missile in anger. Two missiles were fired and both were direct hits. It is interesting to recall that the radar contact which was on our screen slowly diminished and then suddenly disappeared. We were very jubilant at that time. Later, we found that this has been a Pakistani destroyer."

Very soon another ship was located right in front of my boat. We fired a couple of missiles as well but did not sink it. The boat on our right was ordered to attack the ship. It did so and managed to cripple it completely. We thought we had sunk it but later the Pakistanis claimed that the ship had been badly crippled and put out of action but not sunk. Anyway, as we continued, both the other boats could not keep up and had to turn back. Only Nipat, the boat I was on, could proceed towards Karachi harbour. We pressed on and fired missiles on Karachi which hit the oil installations there. The attack took place just 1 minute before midnight and we could see the flames from the oil installations lighting up the sea. It looked like Diwali (the Indian festival of lights and firecrackers)." It took a few more days for Commodore Yadav's boat to return to harbour as they had to take evasive action and ran out of fuel. In the meanwhile, the Pakistanis who were hunting for the boat put out a message that an Indian vessel had been sunk. INS Nipat, the only boat not accounted for at that time, was presumed sunk. But INS Nipat returned, thanks to the ingenuity of its engineers who managed to take out pump oil and use it to run the engines.

The Indian Navy accomplished the task assigned to it within the first few days of the war. No enemy shipping could move in or out of its harbours. Merchant ships did not dare approach Karachi. Control of the seas around both wings of Pakistan was with the Indian Navy.


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Old December 7th, 2003   #9
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Re: A really nice account of Pak Navy's psycological hold over Indian Navy.

Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Su_37
The 1971 India- Pakistan war threw up two major surprises.
1) The birth of Bangladesh
2) The second surprise was the bombing of Karachi harbour by the Indian Navy on the night of Dec 4 and 5, and 8 and 9.

This time again also Pakistan turn to be shocked as india dose not have the military capability to attack a heavely defended port. But , what was overlooked by the Pakistan and the rest of the world was that Indian Navy had devised an original piece of thinking.

The Indian Navy decided to use the Soviet Union Accquired OSA class missile boats in an innovative and offensive manner. WHile these boats had a leathel strike cabability, It did not have the endurance to reach Karachi from Bombay, Sovit design these boats for the purpose of harbour and costal defence.



In an unprecedented tactical move, the Indian Navy towed these boats by frigates to reach close to Karachi. Thereafter Streaming on their own, these boats fired a the ships and oil tankers harbouredd at the Karachi and swiftely come back to be towed back to home again.The entire operation , each time, was done in a single night to ensure that Pak land based aircraft, which did not have night flying caapability remains , incapable.

After these attacks, the fire at Karachi raged for 7 days and nights.

The world so stunned by these attacks that forign merchant ships anchored at Karachi sough permission from INDIA for safe Passage in the water around Karachi. It is also promed the US to send its Air Craft Carrier , Enterprise, into Bay of Bangal.

Well i think.. not forget to mention about incapability to protect its own only one port and you are talking about win over IN ... Oh man what a world ,,,



Yeah! and one ONLY ONE PAF Martin B57 responded on the night of 5th December 1971 by attacking Okha naval base.Targets destroyed were the ammo dump,fuel dumps and missile boat jettys.Oh and the Osas hit only a destroyer and a mine sweeper not the Karachi harbour.After the B57 attack on okha no Osas were seen again.The B57's exact TOT was 2247 hrs.
Trident, Grandslam and Python: Attacks on Karachi


"Well old boy,this happens in war.I am sorry your ships have been sunk"
- C-in-C PAF to his naval counterpart in 1971

"This is the best Diwali we've ever seen!"
- The attacking force,"Trishul"

When about 70 miles south of Karachi, a firm contact was detected to the northwest at a distance of about 45 miles and a second contact to the northeast at a range of 42 miles, heading for Karachi.K-25 evaluated the first contact to be a warship closing in at about 20 knots. This was the Pakistani destroyer Khaibar which was reportedly on patrol and somehow failed to receive orders to investigate possible contacts south of Karachi. Khaibar was also said to have intercepted a HF transmission at 1905 hrs emanating from a south-easterly direction but could not decipher the language.K-25 ordered Nirghat to alter course and engage the northwesterly contact. When Nirghat saw the destroyer coming straight at the force, she had to reverse course and complete pre-launch checks before taking the shot. Nirghat altered to port and launched an SS-N-2B Styx AsHM followed by another one a little later. Khaibar observed a 'bright light' approaching her from her starboard beam and sounded action stations and engaged the target with her Bofors guns, mistaking it to be an aircraft. The missile struck Khaibar on the starboard side and exploded below the aft galley in the Electrician's mess deck at about 2245 hrs, Pakistan time. The ship immediately lost propulsion, plunged into darkness and the No.1 Boiler room exploded, engulfing the ship in thick black smoke. Khaibar sent out an emergency transmission which read "Enemy aircraft attacked in position 020 FF 20.No 1 Boiler hit. Ship stopped." which meant that the Pakistan Navy did not even know what hit them. At about 2249 hrs, the second missile was seen approaching and again engaged in vain as it exploded into the No.2 Boiler room on the starboard side and sealed the fate of the Khaibar forever. On the bridge of the Nipat,K-25 watched eagerly as the radar contact on his screen slowly diminished and suddenly disappeared. The Pakistani ocean going minesweeper PNS Muhafiz arrived in her patrol area at 2245 hrs and witnessed the missile attack. Nipat then engaged the second contact and a third contact and fired a missile on each of these contacts at about 2300 hrs(IST), which were the Merchant vessel Venus challenger and the destroyer PNS Shahjahan respectively.

The Venus challenger was completely darkened and proceeding at 16 knots. The Styx AShM struck the ship and a huge flash was seen and evaluated to be ammunition exploding. The ship broke into two and sank in less than 8 minutes, about 26 miles south of Karachi. After the war, it was reliably learnt from merchant shipping circles and Bangladeshis who deserted the Pakistan navy as well as Military attaches of foreign embassies in Pakistan that this ship was carrying a near full load of US ammunition from Saigon for the Pakistani Army and Air force which made it a target even more valuable than a warship. It was due to arrive at Karachi at 0130 hrs on 5 Dec.1971.In addition to the ship's crew, the ship was also reported to have a number of Pakistani naval officers and sailors onboard for communication and ordnance duties.

The second Styx is reported to have struck the Pakistani destroyer Shahjahan crippling it beyond service though there is some controversy surrounding this. As per some Pakistani admissions, the Shahjahan was damaged beyond recognition and put out of service but their official history makes no mention of the attack and official Pakistani naval sources have given varying accounts. At one point, it is claimed that damage to Shahjahan and sinking of the merchant(Venus Challenger) are Indian exaggerations but at another point, they are baffled by the mysterious disappearance of the Venus challenger and finally conclude that it must have been sunk in the Indian attacks. But there have also been several Indian sources such as FOCINCWEST Vice Admiral Kohl who recall that both missiles fired by the Nipat homed onto the Venus challenger. Nevertheless, the squadron commander(K-25) B.B Yadav confirmed the engagement of two separate contacts and the supporting Petyas were able to intercept a message ordering the Shahjahan to assist Khaibar but the Shahjahan replied that she could not do so due to some problems!

Epilogue

After the second missile attack on Karachi, the Pakistan navy took a controversial decision. At 1400 hrs on 9 December, orders were issued to all ships in Karachi to heavily reduce their ammunition outfits and limit their operational roles. This move was questioned by many who considered it to be unthinkable just like the decision on 7 December to withdraw all naval surface ships to harbour(though it may have saved them) which was described as extremely shameful and cowardly and exposed the paralysis of the Pakistan Navy. This had an immediate and adverse effect on the morale of the Pakistan navy and was not widely accepted as a rational step. Within the first few days of the war, the Indian Navy had accomplished the heavy tasks assigned to it. With the very first of its major operations, the Indian Navy had absolutely wrecked the enemy forces. With the Pakistani Navy bottled up in harbour,the blockade had been effected and the Indian Navy was in total control of the seas around Pakistan. No merchant shipping could dare approach Karachi which itself was engulfed in thick black smoke. In addition to more than $3 billion worth of damage, most of the oil reserves and ammunition had been lost, warehouses and workshops destroyed and the PAF hit as well, making Karachi the greatest victim of the 1971 war. From 9 December onwards, the western fleet controlled the approaches to Karachi and a third missile attack,? Operation Triumph" was scheduled for 10 December. However, on the night of 9 December, the Indian frigate Khukri was torpedoed and sunk by the Pakistani Daphne class submarine Hangor during a hunter-killer operation. FOCINCWEST cancelled the third attack and deployed forces to hunt for the submarine. By the time it was reintroduced, the instruments of surrender had already been signed. Within a few days after the missile attacks, the Indian Navy's Eastern fleet had effectively destroyed the Pakistani forces in East Pakistan. At the end of the war, the Indian Navy controlled the seas around both the wings of Pakistan after achieving total dominance.

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Old December 7th, 2003   #10
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Nice articles. But dont know how much credible these are.
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Old December 7th, 2003   #11
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Re: A really nice account of Pak Navy's psycological hold over Indian Navy.

Looks like su-37 is advertising for indian websites and forums. ol Can't find any other source su37??? :P
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Old December 8th, 2003   #12
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Re: A really nice account of Pak Navy's psycological hold over Indian Navy.

Yeah! and one ONLY ONE PAF Martin B57 responded on the night of 5th December 1971 by attacking Okha naval base.Targets destroyed were the ammo dump,fuel dumps and missile boat jettys.Oh and the Osas hit only a destroyer and a mine sweeper not the Karachi harbour.After the B57 attack on okha no Osas were seen again.The B57's exact TOT was 2247 hrs.[/quote]

A destroyer and a minesweeper for virtually no loss is a pretty major bag. And we lost a sub 2 rmmbr. But the point 2 rmmbr is that we were fighting a losing war and we did our best no matter wat all those western and indian hotshots say. I still salute our armed guyz.
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Old December 8th, 2003   #13
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The PAK FA will be a modified version of Su-37/47. But I still didnt get why Indians are going for PAK FA when they are making MCA.
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Old December 8th, 2003   #14
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Originally Posted by Oqaab
The PAK FA will be a modified version of Su-37/47. But I still didnt get why Indians are going for PAK FA when they are making MCA.
What's that got to do with this topic???
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Old December 8th, 2003   #15
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Re: A really nice account of Pak Navy's psycological hold over Indian Navy.

Oops! sorry
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