Go Back   Defense Technology & Military Forum > Global Defense & Military > Navy & Maritime
Forgot Password? Join Us! Its's free!

Defense News
Land, Air & Naval Forces






Military Photos
Latest Military Pictures

Nellis_14_1162-1.JPG

Nellis_14_2512-1.JPG

Nellis_14_0051-1.JPG

Nellis_14_1085-1.JPG
Defense Reports
Aerospace & Defence







Recent Photos - DefenceTalk Military Gallery





Question on missile firings from ships

This is a discussion on Question on missile firings from ships within the Navy & Maritime forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Is there any particular reason why missile firings during exercises are normally conducted by ships that are moving at slow ...


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old October 27th, 2012   #1
Senior Member
Brigadier General
No Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,864
Threads:
Question on missile firings from ships

Is there any particular reason why missile firings during exercises are normally conducted by ships that are moving at slow speed or at cruising speed - is it due to telemetry tests or simply to provide better photo opportunities for official photographers? Is there any technical reason as to why a launch wouldn't be made if a ship was moving say at 25 or 30 knots? Could FACs with speeds of 50 knots launch missiles when moving at high speeds?
STURM is offline   Reply With Quote
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Can Russia regain it's Military Might? scarey1989 Air Force & Aviation 142 September 9th, 2007 04:35 AM
Will Australia develop a Missile Defence System? Tasman Missiles & WMDs 7 May 24th, 2007 04:46 AM
Yj-62 Anti-ship Cruise Missile kashifshahzad Navy & Maritime 9 January 10th, 2006 05:03 PM
World's Best Missile Defence Destroyer Army & Security Forces 20 January 29th, 2005 11:42 AM
Vaunted Patriot Missile Has a 'Friendly Fire' Failing ullu Army & Security Forces 2 April 22nd, 2003 08:53 AM

Old October 27th, 2012   #2
Defense Professional / Analyst
Captain
Systems Adict's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 764
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by STURM View Post
Is there any particular reason why missile firings during exercises are normally conducted by ships that are moving at slow speed or at cruising speed - is it due to telemetry tests or simply to provide better photo opportunities for official photographers? Is there any technical reason as to why a launch wouldn't be made if a ship was moving say at 25 or 30 knots? Could FACs with speeds of 50 knots launch missiles when moving at high speeds?

Logically, I would say that it had something to do with stability & accuracy.

If a ship is pootling along at minimum speed, or at dead stop / station keeping for that matter, it is a more stable platform in pitch & roll.

This stability allows the processing of data to be made easier & this makes it more accurate, as while the data may well be being fed to the command system / fire control predictor 1,000 times a second, it's not being swamped with huge variations on pitch, roll, ships heading & speed from own ship.

Additionally, the same can be said for the track extractor data being processed by the radar / tracker that is tracking the target. Less variation / solid tracking of the target leads to better accuracy.

All that said, these systems CAN operate when the ship is at speed, but there is the likelihood that unless the missile is update from own ship, mid-flight, there's a higher probability of a miss.

FAC's generally use missiles that have their own seeker heads built in, that get initial (simple) target data (range/course/speed) from own ship, then after launch lock onto target.



Well that's my 2 cents worth....

Happy to be proven incorrect !


SA

Last edited by Systems Adict; October 27th, 2012 at 06:09 PM. Reason: Correctang Speeeling Masstooks
Systems Adict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th, 2012   #3
Senior Member
Brigadier General
No Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,864
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Systems Adict View Post
FAC's generally use missiles that have their own seeker heads built in, that get initial (simple) target data (range/course/speed) from own ship, then after launch lock onto target.
You mean there'a a difference between say, MM-40s on an FAC and MM-40s on a destroyer in that the ones fitted on the FAC have built in seeker heads? I was under the impression that all guided surface to surface missiles have built in seeker heads and that target guidance is provided via the ships radar [and fire director?] until the missile reaches its terminal phase.
STURM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th, 2012   #4
Super Moderator
Lieutenant General
No Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,562
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by STURM View Post
You mean there'a a difference between say, MM-40s on an FAC and MM-40s on a destroyer in that the ones fitted on the FAC have built in seeker heads? I was under the impression that all guided surface to surface missiles have built in seeker heads and that target guidance is provided via the ships radar [and fire director?] until the missile reaches its terminal phase.
You can launch a missile to be guided to the target's extrapolated position via INS or something like that, whereupon it switches on its own sensors and enters the terminal phase - this is how the Exocet and many others work, if I remember correctly. Doesn't need radar illumination from the launch vessel the entire time : )
Bonza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2012   #5
Senior Member
Brigadier General
No Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,864
Threads:
Have we reached a stage where MPAs or other OTHT assets can provide mid-course guidance to ship launched anti-ship missiles in flight - the same way that some BVR missiles have a mid-course guidance update capability via a data link?
STURM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2012   #6
Defense Professional / Analyst
Lieutenant General
kato's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,916
Threads:
We reached that stage over 30 years ago (e.g. with Otomat TESEO and ERATO). The current generation of missiles introduces dual-direction datalinks.
kato is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 29th, 2012   #7
Defense Professional / Analyst
Corporal
No Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 146
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by STURM View Post
Is there any particular reason why missile firings during exercises are normally conducted by ships that are moving at slow speed or at cruising speed - is it due to telemetry tests or simply to provide better photo opportunities for official photographers? Is there any technical reason as to why a launch wouldn't be made if a ship was moving say at 25 or 30 knots? Could FACs with speeds of 50 knots launch missiles when moving at high speeds?
Generally, it gets better pictures moving at low speed, and since MISSILEXes are usually pretty rare events, there's not much reason to add speed into the process as one more thing to get wrong.

I know for a fact there's been one recent launch from an ARLEIGH BURKE-class DDG at high-speed (note that the flag is flying fully, which requires either a lot of wind or a lot of speed).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 090923-N-1251W-037-L.jpg (139.5 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg 090923-N-2717C-001-L.jpg (125.6 KB, 15 views)

Last edited by Blackshoe; October 29th, 2012 at 07:28 PM. Reason: (edited to attach the files rather than try and embed links)
Blackshoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 2nd, 2012   #8
Senior Member
Brigadier General
No Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,864
Threads:
Judging from the way the smoke trail has moved, this ship was probably moving at medium to high speed or there was a very strong wind. The launchers on this ship are fitted amidships but the smoke trail has moved way aft which seems to give the impression that the missile was fired somewhere else.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg RBA_3639-e1348145969891.jpg (103.1 KB, 27 views)
STURM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 2nd, 2012   #9
Defense Professional / Analyst
Corporal
No Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 146
Threads:
I'd argue judging by the wake that the ship must have been moving pretty slowly.

That missile has in impressive turn-over maneuver, though.
Blackshoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 2nd, 2012   #10
Senior Member
Brigadier General
No Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,864
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackshoe View Post
I'd argue judging by the wake that the ship must have been moving pretty slowly.

That missile has in impressive turn-over maneuver, though.
It's an Exocet MM-40 Block 2. You're right, from the wake the ship must have been moving probably at 7-8 knots! But there must have been a very strong wind as the smoke trail has been blown way to the aft.
STURM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 12th, 2012   #11
Just Hatched
Private
No Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackshoe View Post
Generally, it gets better pictures moving at low speed, and since MISSILEXes are usually pretty rare events, there's not much reason to add speed into the process as one more thing to get wrong.

I know for a fact there's been one recent launch from an ARLEIGH BURKE-class DDG at high-speed (note that the flag is flying fully, which requires either a lot of wind or a lot of speed).
for a TLAM, you have a spot in the ocean that you shoot from, to have the most effective chance of getting all your birds on target. Depending on the range your shooting, the direction of your missiles (port or stbd flyout) depends on where the EP's (Engagement Planners) tell the LCO (Launch Control Officer) where the ship needs to be and at what time. The LCO lets the CO know where the ship needs to be, and verify's with higher authority (generally the Carrier in the region, or large deck amphib) that your "spot" is authorized.
dundonrl is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:11 AM.