This is a discussion on Philippine Navy Discussion and Updates within the Navy & Maritime forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Originally Posted by adroth
You're the one saying that we could have gotten a better deal with the Russians. The ...
You're the one saying that we could have gotten a better deal with the Russians. The burden of proof, therefore, is upon you.
If you don't have the numbers . . . kinda hard to make that statement don't you think?
not really, I have been reading the logistics for sale by Russians compared to the US or the west, the Russians usually cost less almost half compared to the west and may of their weapons and logistics are even competitive in quality from their AKs to T-72s or T-90s, to sukhois, Migs etc. and this is what Im basing it on the costs, Im sure many defense enthusiasts including yourself know this. I don't need to produce detailed numbers. Why don't you research that yourself if you want accuracy in prices. Lets just say common sense.
You're the one saying that we could have gotten a better deal with the Russians. The burden of proof, therefore, is upon you.
If you don't have the numbers . . . kinda hard to make that statement don't you think?
not really, I have been reading the logistics for sale by Russians compared to the US or the west, the Russians usually cost less almost half compared to the west and may of their weapons and logistics are even competitive in quality from their AKs to T-72s or T-90s, to sukhois, Migs etc. and this is what Im basing it on the costs, Im sure many defense enthusiasts including yourself know this. I don't need to produce detailed numbers. Why don't you research that yourself if you want accuracy in prices. Lets just say common sense. Better yet if locally designed and built, which will create more jobs, and more taxes and revenues for the government.
not really, I have been reading the logistics for sale by Russians compared to the US or the west, the Russians usually cost less almost half compared to the west and may of their weapons and logistics are even competitive in quality from their AKs to T-72s or T-90s, to sukhois, Migs etc. and this is what Im basing it on the costs, Im sure many defense enthusiasts including yourself know this. I don't need to produce detailed numbers. Why don't you research that yourself if you want accuracy in prices. Lets just say common sense.
Why don't you try adding something more to the discussion instead of saying "this is common sense, I don't need to produce numbers to defend my position, research it yourself". If you've been reading about these costs why not at least provide some links to said reading so other posters can have a look themselves? This adds a lot more to the discussion than simply disagreeing with someone and telling them to "look it up" if they want to know why you disagree.
Not rebuking you, just offering some advice, the above would add more to the conversation and give other posters the chance to evaluate the information you've seen themselves, and add their own thoughts.
not really, I have been reading the logistics for sale by Russians compared to the US or the west, the Russians usually cost less almost half compared to the west and may of their weapons and logistics are even competitive in quality from their AKs to T-72s or T-90s, to sukhois, Migs etc.
Then you'll also be aware that the downside of buying Russian fighters is that their engines, radars, landing gears, etc, have a shorter TBO and MTBF than their western equivalents, which will lead to higher operating costs in the long run. It's not a question of buying something just because it's cheaper and does the same job, factors like operating costs and product support also are important.
It would be a good decision to replace that antique museumpiece by a Hamilton class cutter. With its 76mm Oto Melara gun, 2 x 25 mm Mk38, a 20 mm Phalanx, a helipad and its range of 14,000 nautical miles its an ideal platform for search and rescue (SAR) and patrolling the Filipina's exclusive economic zone.
The PN should prioritize securing its borders first. I’m sick of hearing news that we don’t have the necessary ships to patrol our own borders, especially in the Mindanao area.
Cutters with radar and other sensory equipment is what we really now!
The PN should prioritize securing its borders first. I’m sick of hearing news that we don’t have the necessary ships to patrol our own borders, especially in the Mindanao area.
Cutters with radar and other sensory equipment is what we really now!
"NEED" I agree with you 100%...The AFP is really running out of time, No more IFS or BUTS! It's not guaranteed that the US will support RP in case an armed hostilities do breakout on the disputed South China Sea Islands!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandhi Yudha
It would be a good decision to replace that antique museumpiece by a Hamilton class cutter. With its 76mm Oto Melara gun, 2 x 25 mm Mk38, a 20 mm Phalanx, a helipad and its range of 14,000 nautical miles its an ideal platform for search and rescue (SAR) and patrolling the Filipina's exclusive economic zone.
The 20mm Phalanx CIWS has been emoved from the Hamilton, with only the 76m Oto Melara and 2X 25mm Mk 38 remaining on board...It would still be an ideal vessel to patrol the VAST EEZ area of the Philippines and there is a possibility that 2 more of this class will be acquired later this year or early next year...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SASWanabe
have you heard anything on the price?
NO, not at all...the price has been a mystery sinced this transfer was announced almost 3 months ago by the AFP, I hope they got a good deal from the USCG...
Last edited by OPSSG; June 24th, 2011 at 08:12 AM.
Do you know when will be these USCG Cutter Hamilton arrive in the Philippines?
Official turnover date to the PN will be May 13th at Coast Guard Island Alameda...I'm not sure if it will sail right away after that date or if it will go to a drydock 1st for upgrades/renovations sinced most of it's electronincs have been removed...
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" PROCRASTINATION WILL NOT ACHIEVE ANY GOALS, TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE... "
Official turnover date to the PN will be May 13th at Coast Guard Island Alameda...I'm not sure if it will sail right away after that date or if it will go to a drydock 1st for upgrades/renovations sinced most of it's electronincs have been removed...
I had read today in the ABS-CBN news.com that the A.F.P. is negotiating for another two decommisioned Hamilton class ship. acording to AFP spokesman Commodore Miguel Jose Rodriguez the talks are on exploratory stage and to him the first hamilton class worth P1.2 billion pesos and will arrive in August and to be assign in Palawan and Spratly island
wow, thats about 26m australian. way more than i expected they would be paying.
It is for a 44 year old ship, that's almost $27 Million and not even including the Phalanx CIWS and other recently installed electronic sensors/radars...The PN could have bought a brand new OPV at that price, looks like something fishy happened during the negotiations of this transfer...
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" PROCRASTINATION WILL NOT ACHIEVE ANY GOALS, TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE... "
It is for a 44 year old ship, that's almost $27 Million and not even including the Phalanx CIWS and other recently installed electronic sensors/radars...The PN could have bought a brand new OPV at that price, looks like something fishy happened during the negotiations of this transfer...
all they had to do is wait a decade or so and they could buy 3 or 4 ex-RAN Armidales for that.
It is for a 44 year old ship, that's almost $27 Million and not even including the Phalanx CIWS and other recently installed electronic sensors/radars...The PN could have bought a brand new OPV at that price, looks like something fishy happened during the negotiations of this transfer...
Keep in mind the NZ OPVs ran around NZD 90 million each. Offhand that is around USD 60 million. Furthermore, the cutters are being funded by US aid in the same way as Pakistan's FFGs... At that price they are getting the cutters for practically nothing out of their pockets, that price mostly pays for the forthcoming thorough dry dock and the equipment which will be installed...
