This is a discussion on Philippine Navy Discussion and Updates within the Navy & Maritime forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Originally Posted by Belesari
I wonder if they could afford something from the US look at the Egyptian corvette design.
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I wonder if they could afford something from the US look at the Egyptian corvette design.
Why? Elaborate please.
The Ambassador IV-Class patrol craft (if that's what you mean) has an endurance of 8 days according to Naval Technology. The Hamilton has more than that (14400 miles at 12 knots compared to 2000nm at 15 knots) . We need a naval presence in the South China Sea, not a missile craft especially since it could create tension.
The Ambassador IV-Class patrol craft (if that's what you mean) has an endurance of 8 days according to Naval Technology. The Hamilton has more than that (14400 miles at 12 knots compared to 2000nm at 15 knots) . We need a naval presence in the South China Sea, not a missile craft especially since it could create tension.
I didn't mean they need the Ambassador class i meant they could get something built in the states. Something with good endurance and capability. Something like the brits river class maybe.
And no offence but the tension is already there and while i can see why you are more worried about defusing the situation there will come a time when you need the weapons to defend your nation and if you dont have them it's to late.
A little side note I've been for the Hamiltons sense day one. However i think something newer purpose built might be a better idea bough over the next 5-10 years. Something like a modern Treasury class cutter.
I didn't mean they need the Ambassador class i meant they could get something built in the states. Something with good endurance and capability. Something like the brits river class maybe.
And no offence but the tension is already there and while i can see why you are more worried about defusing the situation there will come a time when you need the weapons to defend your nation and if you dont have them it's to late.
A little side note I've been for the Hamiltons sense day one. However i think something newer purpose built might be a better idea bough over the next 5-10 years. Something like a modern Treasury class cutter.
A Treasury class isn't new. I would suggest something similar to a NZ OPV, or Irish Roisin class OPV. They would be suitable for Philippine Sea EEZ patrols.
How do OPVs rate vs. the Hamilton-class in heavy sea conditions? I'm assuming an ex-USCG design would have the edge and be very suitable to operations in the typhoon belt.
A Treasury class isn't new. I would suggest something similar to a NZ OPV, or. They would be suitable for Philippine Sea EEZ patrols.
Yea i meant something like it but a modern design. A simple cutter design with enough legs and power to do whats needed. And yea Wellington and Otago would be fine i figure. Not sure how they handle though.
How do OPVs rate vs. the Hamilton-class in heavy sea conditions? I'm assuming an ex-USCG design would have the edge and be very suitable to operations in the typhoon belt.
Oh yea the Hamiltons have been through some of the worst weather you can find. Not sure how the average OPV would do.
Oh yea the Hamiltons have been through some of the worst weather you can find. Not sure how the average OPV would do.
There is a Youtube video of HMNZS Wellington riding out a storm in the Great Southern Ocean which more than adequately shows her prowess in gigantic seas (sorry can't get the link to work)
It all boils down to cash. At the end of the day, what the PN should get is a cost effective design that is a economical to operate and to maintain - able to perform a whole list of peactime duties that are currently being performed by a fleet that is on average more than 50 years old! Bear in mind that apart from the ex-USCG Cutter and the ex-Peacock class the bulk of the fleet is more than 50 years old and should have been consigned to a srapyard or a museum a long tome ago but haven't, thanks to the politicians! The reason they got the ex-USCG Cutter and are in talks over the Maestrales is because there are currently no funds for anything else and that the PN urgently needs hulls in the water - hopefully the next hulls ordered will be newly built. Once funds are available, there is no shortage of designs to choose from. South Korean shipyards for one, have a number of designs ranging ftom 1,200 to 5,000 tonnes, its a matter of what the customer can afford and what the operational requirements are.
PN's plans inlcude newbuilds but they may not be all about war ships with teeth. As mentioned in local forums and newpapers, its a mix of sea vessels and air assets to provide for a capability or a minimum credible defense posture. From 6 frigates configured for AAW, 12 corvettes for ASW, 18 OPVs, to Strategic Sealift vessels, LCUs, etc. Right now at the rate of plans are going, its going to take a little longer to have these realized. And yes, more importantly money, along with political support from approving bodies is crucial to this plan. Despite having a president who is serious enough (compared to his predecessors) to modernize the Armed Forces, it has been a roller coaster ride (for major acquisitions) for the AFP modernization. Recently - the PN had RFI from the US (FBO solicitation) for an OPV, this was made last year.
Yes I agree that the PN should get the most "bang-for-buck" ships that are hopefully new but they need to train first to use it especially the modern ones since as stated, they are operating assets that are more than 50 yr old. That might take time though. Look at the WHECs are the first step, a slightly "modern" platform, then the Maestrales as the missile-firing second step. Now for the third step, the PN might look at ships that are according to their specifications or those that they could manage.
All I'm saying is that it might take a while since there is also an air force to modernize.
Besides, some political entities believed that the US will just keep spitting serviceable junks every time we needed it. Only if the threat is visible on the horizon will the politicians move.
Last edited by Andri F; November 19th, 2012 at 01:08 AM.
Slow and steady - recently acquired MPACs (a small craft for interdiction and patrols driven by water jets - similar to Swedish CB-90) were purchased and the second batch of three just commissioned in the PN recently, locally built LCUs now operating, the first Hamilton class cutter (BRP Gregorio del Pilar) is now on patrol - first ship in PN inventory with rather modern gas turbine engines. Coast Watch system in northwestern Mindanao and in other parts of Ph is up and had been providing security in sea borders. Talks on acquiring Italian frigates - a modernized Maestrale (or at least with most if not all its weapons intact), even mentioned the Minerva class corvette also up for disposal by MMI, and three choppers for PN use also coming from the same country. I would say its a little slack but, hey, the PN-Dept. of Nat'l. Defense still had them going. Just a thought, the PN may also consider looking into the trail which the PCG took recently and announced acquiring a 80-85m OPV from France.
Slow and steady - recently acquired MPACs (a small craft for interdiction and patrols driven by water jets - similar to Swedish CB-90) were purchased and the second batch of three just commissioned in the PN recently, locally built LCUs now operating, the first Hamilton class cutter (BRP Gregorio del Pilar) is now on patrol - first ship in PN inventory with rather modern gas turbine engines. Coast Watch system in northwestern Mindanao and in other parts of Ph is up and had been providing security in sea borders. Talks on acquiring Italian frigates - a modernized Maestrale (or at least with most if not all its weapons intact), even mentioned the Minerva class corvette also up for disposal by MMI, and three choppers for PN use also coming from the same country. I would say its a little slack but, hey, the PN-Dept. of Nat'l. Defense still had them going. Just a thought, the PN may also consider looking into the trail which the PCG took recently and announced acquiring a 80-85m OPV from France.
Good Day Sir, .I am not good in Navy equipment, but just like to ask question sir, i just read in defense-studies.blogspot.com that the PN is acquiring an ASW for their capability to search for submarine and to be used for their maestrale class missile firing warship, my question sir is ASW helicopter has the capacity to destroy submarine or they just use in monitoring or searching submarines in sea?, . .. thank you sir
Good Day Sir, .I am not good in Navy equipment, but just like to ask question sir, i just read in defense-studies.blogspot.com that the PN is acquiring an ASW for their capability to search for submarine and to be used for their maestrale class missile firing warship, my question sir is ASW helicopter has the capacity to destroy submarine or they just use in monitoring or searching submarines in sea?, . .. thank you sir
The answer is "usually" but it really depends on ship and helicopter fitout. An ASW helicopter will usually have sonobuoys and a dipping sonar to search for subs with, and 1 - 2 lightweight torpedoes or depth bombs/charges to attack with. Depending on the sophistication of the naval force, there may be a datalink between the helicopter and surface vessel is it embarked on. If there is, then a common picture can be created using contact returns from the helicopter and the sonar arrays aboard the ship. In addition, the ship can launch attacks on contacts the helicopter makes even if it has depleted its stores.
-Cheers
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MANILA, Philippines - The Department of National Defense (DND) is planning to acquire two brand new naval helicopters with anti-submarine capabilities to enhance the capabilities of the military.
The two helicopters are expected to be placed on the two Maestrale-class missile-firing warships to be acquired from Italy. There is no information yet as to where the helicopters would be procured.
Just highlighted two things:
1. Brand new ASW Helicopter
2. No Information from which producers will be acquired.
It will be stationed in Maestrale Frigates, thus in my mind has to be in the similar class with the old AB 212 ASW. For me what cross my mind is AW 159 which basically improved version of Westland Super Lynx. Since Westland now part of Agusta Westland and control by Finmeccanica, then perhaps the Italian can provide better deal on that.
I tend to believe since they are going to get ex Italian Frigates, then for business purpose an Italian ASW helicopter can be wrap-up in one packages with ex Maestrale Frigates.
An Italian ASW frigates that already mature and only slightly larger then AB 212 ASW (which basically Maestrale standard ASW Helicopter), only AW 159 that come to my mind. AW 101 or NH90 (in which Agusta Westland also part of the project), seems larger than what Maestrale used to operated, and also bit more expensive.
