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Pakistan Navy (PN) News, Updates & Discussions

This is a discussion on Pakistan Navy (PN) News, Updates & Discussions within the Navy & Maritime forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence * President hails United States decision on F-16 sale to Pakistan KARACHI: President ...


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Old March 28th, 2005   #1
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Pakistan Navy (PN) News, Updates & Discussions

New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

* President hails United States decision on F-16 sale to Pakistan

KARACHI: President Pervez Musharraf said on Monday that the inclusion of the P-3C Orion aircraft, F-22P Frigates and acquisition of F-16 fighter jets would strengthen Pakistan’s defence.

“These state-of-the-art weapons will augment our defence capabilities and play an important role in any future scenario,” he said while addressing a debriefing of Pakistan Navy exercise ‘Shamsheer-e-Bahr II’ on PNS Jauhar. President Musharraf praised the close coordination of the three services (land, air, sea) during the exercise, saying the lessons learnt from it were practical and would help validate Pakistan Navy’s operational plans and doctrines. He also said efficient cohesion and coordination between the three services would prove to be a key to all solutions.

The president said the existence and prosperity of all nations rested on economy and defence and that it was heartening to see that Pakistan had strengthened both pillars. He also congratulated the three services for conducting the exercise efficiently and praised the efforts of all concerned.

Earlier, Pakistan Navy chief Admiral Shahid Karimullah said the exercise conducted bi-annually was an extension of the joint services-level exercise ‘Sabit Qadam II’. The exercise helped Pakistan Navy look over its concepts and war plans, he said, adding that this year’s exercise was conducted on a wider canvas with greater participation from all services. Later, President Musharraf told PTV that the acquisition of F-16s was a long-standing demand of Pakistan, which would now be met.

About the number of F-16s to be purchased, he said there was no limit put by the US and that Pakistan would determine the number it wanted in accordance to its requirements. He said Pakistan would get the latest C and D versions of the aircraft. APP

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default...9-3-2005_pg7_4

So now that F-22P frigates are coming (any body knowing when the first one is to be commissioned?), I think they should also take a look at the state of other vessels of the PN. The way I see it, we definitely need atleast a couple of Destroyers and some more (much advanced) Missile Boats as well to really give PN the punch it needs.
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Old March 29th, 2005   #2
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Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

What the hell does your post have to do with this thread and how does it contribute to the discussion I'm trying to generate anyways? Mods, clean the mess up, will ya? Thnx

mod edit:highsea: Taken care of. In the future, please just click the notifier on the post you disagree with. (the little exclamation mark on the lower left side of the post). This will send a message to the mods.

Gotcha! That symbol is quite small and didnt catch ma eye.
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Old March 29th, 2005   #3
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Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

yes myst the last report i saw, said the first one should be with us by 2006 and the rest a few years after. so basically all four should be with us within 7 years if not 6.
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Old March 29th, 2005   #4
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Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

When is Pakistan getting those F-22Ps?
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Old March 29th, 2005   #5
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Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

i've just answered your question in my previous post. that is according the a report i saw on it a few months back.
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Old March 29th, 2005   #6
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Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

Ok so now I need to know if PN is planning on getting a couple of Destroyers and/or other vessels. The Frigate acquisitions doesn't really impress me cuz they wouldn't really stand much of a chance against hostile forces unless supported by some 'big boys'!!

PS: I'm not much of a navy fella so I'd be glad to know how Destroyers, Frigates and Corvettes differ from each other (their roles and impacts on fleet strength). I have some idea but am in dire need of some detailed clarification to set my mind straight on this issue.
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Old March 30th, 2005   #7
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Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

same here. i ain't much of a navy fella either. . so i can't answer your question that well. more subs and destroyers would be good for PN
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Old March 30th, 2005   #8
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Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

Classifications of Naval vessels vary from country to country, and before the USN reclassified our ships in 1975, there was a lot of confusion- What the Soviets called a cruiser, we called a frigate, which was midway between a cruiser and a destroyer. Since Soviet vessels were generally smaller, they had more "cruisers" than the US, and this "cruiser gap" caused some consternation in some circles, even though in actual tonnage terms, the US was way ahead. Likewise, what the US calls a Frigate today, might be called a destroyer by someone else.

The Corvette designation is not used in the USN, but basically they are smaller vessels that are used primarily for coastal patrol. The Visby Class Corvette is 600 tons and ~210 ft. OAL. Visby's are designed to be a multi-mission ship with modular flexibility- it can perform limited ASW and ASUW functions. Some corvettes are designed to be fast attack missile boats like the Israeli Eilat class (1200 tons, ~255 ft. OAL). They are generally strike and patrol platforms, and not used for fleet defense per se.

In todays terms, a frigate (FF) is smaller than a destroyer, and is tasked for protection of shipping (ASW) roles. USN Oliver Perry Class Frigates are ~4100 tons and 445 ft. OAL, the Amazon (Tariq) class frigates that Pakistan has are ~3700 tons and 384 ft. OAL. The addition of limited AAW capability created the Guided Missile (FFG) designation, though the primary role is still ASW.

Destroyers (DD,DDG) are the next step up, still smaller than a cruiser but larger than a frigate. USN AB Class DDG's are ~8500 tons and 510ft. OAL. In the USN, destroyers operate in support of CVBG's, surface and amphibious action groups, and replenishment groups, and are multi-role ships- They can conduct anti-sub warfare (ASW), anti-air warfare (AAW), and anti-surface warfare (ASUW). DDG's may also have land attack capabilities with Tomahawk cruise missiles and limited NSFS capabilities.

Again, this varies from country to country, so there are no hard and fast rules. A good source for information on different classes of Naval ships can be found here:

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/

Last edited by highsea; March 30th, 2005 at 09:22 PM.
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Old March 31st, 2005   #9
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Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

Thnx for the info and I must say it reinforces my point that PN should seriously consider acquiring atleast 4 Destroyers to be able to really pack a punch.
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Old March 31st, 2005   #10
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Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

I'm not sure that's really necessary, what are Pakistan's Naval requirements? I see it as primarily coastal defense and defense of shipping, both tasks are better served with vessels designed to that purpose.

Pakistan is not trying to project Naval power, nor can she slug it out with India using surface combatants. India's naval needs are much greater than Pakistan's in terms of coastline to protect, the A&N's, China, etc, so she has a much larger Navy. With the exception of Pakistan's subs, India can bottle up the PN relatively easily.

I would think that Pakistan would be better served with more modern frigates and coastal patrol craft, and submarines- this gives her the ability to defend her coastline and shipping interests without spending large amounts of money on vessels that she doesn't really need, i.e no carriers or phibs to protect anyway.

Frigates are perfect escorts, that's what they were designed for, and Fast Patrol Boats armed with AshM's and torps, AC with AshM's, and Subs are more effective at coastal defense than destroyers. You can put more assets out there for the money and cover more ground. And losing a Patrol Boat would not be nearly as painful as losing a destroyer, since the destroyers become a tempting target in their own right.

Just my thoughts, if Pakistan wants to project naval power, create expeditionary forces, etc, then she would definitely need some destroyers.
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Old March 31st, 2005   #11
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Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

Well even its not Destroyers, the force structure should be such that the Indian Navy is never to be given a chance to blockade Pakistani ports at any cost. More subs (and good ones) would be one way to do that as you put it but what else to repel hostile forces moving in?
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Old March 31st, 2005   #12
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Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

i think we should just leave china and its navy in gwader port do the job for us once it's made.
i'm sure they would send some warships there to protect there energy supplies from the middle east. at the same time india wouldn't wanna mess
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Old March 31st, 2005   #13
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Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

I think at present, and in the near future, the P3C orions and F-22Ps will do us real good. Given the size of our Coast, 10 P3Cs, will be a very nice asset. What we should be looking at in the near future is that we need to strengthen over Submarine fleet. we currently operate 3 Agostas, that number should be raised, as soon as the funding is there, to 6. And as the the older subs start getting near retirement, Pakistan should acquire 4 more high-tech subs, preferably, Nuklear powered ones. with 6 agostas, and 4 Nuke subs, + some midget subs, we should be able to keep our Coastline quite safe, and shipping lanes open!

By the way, for how long can we use the P3C orions? as i remember we bought them used so how many years have they got. And does anyone know the chances of getting the (not sure about the name so i'm guessing) HARPOON missiles?
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Old March 31st, 2005   #14
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Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Pakistan already operates Harpoon so additional purchases shouldn't be a problem now... The new Block II Harpoon also provides a useful standoff precision land attack capability as well, and is relatively cheap.

Australia is spending a "mere" $30 Million on Harpoon II upgrades kits. For the price you obtain a very capable 130km range anti-ship missile and land attack missile, that can be fired from submarines, surface ships and various aircraft, all rolled into one...

I also see that Pakistan operates the Exocet anti-ship missile. This can probably be integrated onto your impending P-3C's and would no doubt provide good capability as well.

Australia's P-3C's will be good to around 2015, as (I believe) will the US Navy's. It is at this point that the new generation MMA will come online (hopefully) so I'd expect most legacy maritime patrol aircraft fleets would be due to expire around that time...

I don't think Pakistan should bother pursuing a Destroyer fleet, unless it's looking at joining UN (or "willing") style coalitions. Modern Frigates are ample for ASW (anti-submarine) and ASuW (anti-surface) warfare missions. On top of this, a new generation of Frigates are taking on the Anti-Air warfare role that used to be the main mission of Destroyers.

I'm not sold on the idea of Nuclear powered subs for Pakistan. They are hellishly expensive even when compared to conventional subs, which are extremely expensive in of themselves (if they're any good).

My thoughts on the PN's priorities are therefore thus; several new subs to round out your fleet to around 6. A fleet of modern ASW, ASuW and anti-air capable frigates to provide the main combat power of the fleet, a secondary class of frigate to round out your fleet and specialise in the most relevant area, perhaps ASW, a fleet of relatively capable fast attack/patrol craft and capability enhancements (new anti-ship/land attack missiles, new torpedo's, new martime and land surveillance equipment, new Electronic Support Measures [ESM]eqipment [for Sigint/Elint roles] and Electronic Warfare Self Protection kits) for the P-3C squadron should provide a well balanced highly capable force.
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Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

Quote:
Originally Posted by mysterious
Well even its not Destroyers, the force structure should be such that the Indian Navy is never to be given a chance to blockade Pakistani ports at any cost. More subs (and good ones) would be one way to do that as you put it but what else to repel hostile forces moving in?
I'm sorry if i'm wrong,but doesn't Pakistan has been able to made some submarine from agosta class ? I think with the experience Pakistan can start to made his own frigate or destroyer.Singapore for example has create its own warship,the Formidable class,after made some licensed-frigate.
Maybe it will more expensive than buy it from other country, but it will give you freedom to select the right system for your defense.
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