Malaysian Navy Seaskua missile test failed

Adler

New Member
Test fired of (MBDA) SeaSkua missile from malaysian navy super lynx helo at sea failed to hit thier target at 8Nm (booster rocket not working). Another $$$$$ lost at sea. I wonder if all of the missile is good or just a dumy. I think it's the right time for Malaysia to produce thier own missile or maybe reverse engineering. :D
 

alexsa

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Adler said:
Test fired of (MBDA) SeaSkua missile from malaysian navy super lynx helo at sea failed to hit thier target at 8Nm (booster rocket not working). Another $$$$$ lost at sea. I wonder if all of the missile is good or just a dumy. I think it's the right time for Malaysia to produce thier own missile or maybe reverse engineering. :D
Do you have any more inforamation on the failure? Is it the first failure or one of a series? If it is an isolated event I fail to see why Malaysia might what to maufacture its own missiles? If it is one of a series of failures why reverse engineer something that doesn't work?

I have not heard that there have been problems wiht the Sea Skua but that could be due to a lack of information on my part.
 

sevven

New Member
The missile firing was part of an acceptance trial for the induction of the Sea Skua into RMN service. Therefore the faulty missile was still under full MBDA warranty and will be replaced. Initial reports only said that the booster failed and the missile dropped 'like a rock' into the sea. There is little sense in for Malaysia to spend to develop and produce a similar missile domestically. The country's defence spending is too small to justify such a venture.
 

Adler

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sevven said:
The missile firing was part of an acceptance trial for the induction of the Sea Skua into RMN service. Therefore the faulty missile was still under full MBDA warranty and will be replaced. Initial reports only said that the booster failed and the missile dropped 'like a rock' into the sea. There is little sense in for Malaysia to spend to develop and produce a similar missile domestically. The country's defence spending is too small to justify such a venture.
Yes I agreed with you but what's the point of having millions dollar helos, frigates, tanks, sukhoi fighter or astros if you only have a limited ammo (or 0). Maybe they can fire couple of time than what!! it's just like in the Flaklands war when the Argentinian airforce run out of Axocets missile to attack RN fleet or Indonesia Sukhoi, unarmed. Pretty useless I think.

What I know now is Malaysian can only produce bullets and truck for thier armed forces and can't even produce rifle, compare to thier nigbours. They even have problems with supply of thiers adnan ACV300 track pads with 70% of them almost grounded.
 
A

Aussie Digger

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Adler said:
Yes I agreed with you but what's the point of having millions dollar helos, frigates, tanks, sukhoi fighter or astros if you only have a limited ammo (or 0). Maybe they can fire couple of time than what!! it's just like in the Flaklands war when the Argentinian airforce run out of Axocets missile to attack RN fleet or Indonesia Sukhoi, unarmed. Pretty useless I think.

What I know now is Malaysian can only produce bullets and truck for thier armed forces and can't even produce rifle, compare to thier nigbours. They even have problems with supply of thiers adnan ACV300 track pads with 70% of them almost grounded.
Given it was an evaluation, it was most likely a "telemetry" round, ie: a round fitted with sensor's in place of a warhead, designed to measure the performance of the missile itself. This way you get twice the value out of a single missile firing.

The warhead can always be "placed" in a target ship to measure warhead performance, as was done on a RAN SINKEX a few years back in Western Australia (though I can't recall the name of the EX).

I wouldn't fret too much about this. Missile's fail all the time. I saw a video once of a Rapier missile firing being conducted by the Australian Army's 16th AD Regiment. This firing was being conducted for visiting Brass and politicians. The missile was carrying a live warhead and was intended to be fired at a towed target.

The missile left the launch rail, travelled about 5-10m's and then suddenly nose-dived, landed on the ground without detonating and spun around on the ground like crazy, until the rocket motor burnt out...

I believe the "safe distance" rule became somewhat expanded for Rapier firing's after THAT little incident...
 

kotay

Member
Source: Bernama

March 16, 2006 19:45 PM

Sea Skua Missile Misfires In First Test In Southeast Asia

LUMUT, March 16 (Bernama) -- A "Sea Skua" guided missile misfired Thursday, in the first test conducted in Southeast Asia, in the waters off Kuala Beruas near Pantai Remis in Perak, Chief of Navy Admiral Datuk Ilyas Din said.

Matra BAE Dynamics of the United Kingdom, which conducted the test for the Royal Malaysian Navy (RMN), identified a technical problem as the cause of the failure, he added.

The missile, fired at 11 am from a Super Lynx 300 attack helicopter at a wreckage of a ship eight nautical miles away, failed to hit its target and fell into the sea without exploding.

The company would carry out an investigation to determine the cause of the problem in two or three days, well before the second test that is scheduled a week from now, Ilyas told reporters on board the RMN vessel, KD Mahawangsa, here.

The 2.5-metre-long Sea Skua weighing 1.45 kg is an all-weather, day and night sea skimming anti-ship missile equipped with a semi-active radar homing head that can sink a ship from a distance of 18km.

Sea Skua missiles were used in the Gulf War of 1991 and 200 were fired from the Lynx helicopters of the British Royal Navy.

The missiles are used by the armed forces of Brazil, Germany, South Korea and Turkey.

Thursday's Sea Skua missile test was the first conducted in Southeast Asia because Malaysia is the only country in the region to purchase the missiles, the complete package of which cost 16 million pounds sterling (about RM103 million).

The agreement to purchase was made in 2001 and the supply of the missiles to the RMN began last year.

-- BERNAMA
 

kotay

Member
Source: The Star

Friday March 17, 2006

Sea Skua fails live fire test

By CHRISTINA KOH
[email protected]


LUMUT: The Royal Malaysian Navy has tentatively scheduled next Thursday to test fire the Sea Skua guided missile after the first missile failed to hit its target during the inaugural test yesterday.

The missile developed technical difficulties at 11am and sank into the Straits of Malacca after its booster rocket failed to ignite.

The missile, launched from the navy's Super Lynx 300 MK100 helicopter from a height of 90m, was supposed to strike a barge about eight nautical miles away.

The test site is 32 nautical miles west of Kuala Beruas, 50km from here.

RMN chief Laksamana Datuk Ilyas Din said the test was a contractual firing between Matra Bae Dynamics (MBDA) and the navy, which had signed a contract with the British company in 2001.

The contractual firing yesterday, he said, was for two missiles but the navy decided to hold back the firing of the second missile until it had analysed the problem.

“It would be useless (to fire the second missile) if we don't know what the exact problem was,” he told a press conference on board the KD Mahawangsa in the Straits of Malacca.

“I was told a report should be ready in two or three days.”

Three MBDA engineers had been present during the test, which involved nine navy vessels and five helicopters.

Laksamana Ilyas said divers and ships were quickly sent out to search for the sunken missile, which will not detonate without ignition.

Laksamana Ilyas added that the navy would only pay MBDA the full amount for the missiles and firing system once the navy received proof that the missiles worked.

According to the contract, MBDA is obligated to replace any missile for future tests in the event of technical failure.
 

kotay

Member
Source: New Straits Times

Faulty rocket booster foils missile test

LUMUT, Thurs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A British-made Sea Skua guided missile dropped like a stone into the Straits of Malacca today when its rocket booster failed to ignite.

Disappointed but undeterred, Royal Malaysian Navy chief Laksamana Datuk Ilyas Din told reporters that a second contractual firing test will be held by March 23.

"We will not accept the missiles unless they are proven to work," he said aboard the KD Mahawangsa after witnessing the contractual firing test.

Although Malaysia purchased the missiles and firing system from Britain through missile system maker Matra Bae Dynamics (MBDA) four years ago, it has yet to accept the missiles and pay the full price of £16 million (about RM104 million), he said.

On the failure of the test, Ilyas said it was due to a technical fault in the missile and not the firing system.

Neither were the skills of the pilot and tactical officer on the firing Super Lynx 300 MK100 helicopter in question, he added.

This was verified by MBDA engineers who conducted the tests and investigated the incident today, he added.

With nine ships and four helicopters involved in supporting the firing test today, Ilyas estimated today’s test to cost over RM250,000.

He said this should not be considered a waste as the exercise had provided training to the RMN, allowing it to test the missile firing system from the Super Lynx.

However, plans to fire a second missile at 12.45pm were aborted with Ilyas explaining that there was no point in launching it without knowing the source of the problem with the first missile.
 

sevven

New Member
Adler said:
Yes I agreed with you but what's the point of having millions dollar helos, frigates, tanks, sukhoi fighter or astros if you only have a limited ammo (or 0). Maybe they can fire couple of time than what!! it's just like in the Flaklands war when the Argentinian airforce run out of Axocets missile to attack RN fleet or Indonesia Sukhoi, unarmed. Pretty useless I think.

What I know now is Malaysian can only produce bullets and truck for thier armed forces and can't even produce rifle, compare to thier nigbours. They even have problems with supply of thiers adnan ACV300 track pads with 70% of them almost grounded.
How many countries develop and produce their own missiles anyway? The Malaysian Armed Forces is too small to support domestic production of advanced weapons, except perhaps licensed production from one of the majors. Malaysia also has no clear enemy to require maintaining large stockpiles of weapons, and so far the country has had no problems sourcing what few weapons it needs from the international market.
 

kotay

Member
My bad. Was posting those articles to flesh out the discussion for alexsa. Will remember to comment next time.

Okay ... one thought though ... RM$250,000 (about US$68,000) seems pretty cheap for a days work from 9 ships, 4 helos and their crew.
 

chrisrobsoar

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Sea Skua Failure

There is a good description including a video of a Sea Skua being launched from a Lynx helicopter.

http://www.mbda.net/site/FO/scripts/siteFO_contenu.php?lang=EN&noeu_id=113


The missile has been in service for nearly 25 years and has been very reliable.

At launch the missile drops well clear of the helicopter before the rocket booster fires. From the shots I have seen at least 10m. I think that this is to guard against the missile pitching-up and striking the rotor blades.

From the report it suggests that the main motor did not fire; however this may not be a fault with the missile.

Sea Skua is a semi-active missile that uses the Ferranti (Now SELEX) Seaspray Radar to illuminate the target and on board receivers (front & rear) to home onto the target. (The same way as the Sparrow AIM 7E Air to Air Missile). The radar is used to illuminate the target; the missile is initially powered by the Helicopter and locks onto the target. To fire the missile the pilot has to select arm on the Master Arm switch and pull the trigger to start the launch sequence. (There are timing checks to ensure that the pilot has actually pressed the trigger, about 50ms). The first thing to be done to get the missile power supply running. I am not sure what type of power supply is currently used on this missile, it could be a gas grain generator or thermal battery; away they work in a similar fashion, on receipt of the power supply start signal they fire and after a short time (300-600ms) begin producing power and send a Powered up signal back to the Helicopter; if this signal is lost during the remainder of the firing sequence the launch is aborted.

The next step is to release the weapon and get it clear of the Helicopter. There are two things to do, firstly release the attachment points between the missile and the launcher, usually this in done by firing cartridges which generate gas and activate the release hooks; the second task is to clear the weapon from the launcher, some systems use an active ejector to push the missile away from the platform. This is often used on fighter aircraft where one fin of the missile is recessed inside the fuselage of the aircraft. The firing wire was mounted on the foot of the ejector so that the motor fire signal could only be given after the ejector had reached full extension.

I forget the exact details of the Sea Skua Lynx launcher, but there will be a separate fire wire, which cannot be activated until the missile is clear of the platform.

Once the missile is clear but while the Fire Wire is still attached, the Motor Fire Start/Enable signal will be sent by the Helicopter, this could be a high current signal to actually start the rocket motor or a low level enable signal. I suspect the latter, because this would let the missile activate a timer allowing the missile to drop away from the Helicopter before firing the rocket motor. This would account for the usual long delay before the main motor fires.

Solid fuel rockets are reliable. I suspect that something has gone wrong with the firing sequence, either the Helicopter hasn’t sent the Motor Fire signal or the missile electronics have failed to relay the signal to the rocket motor.

It was a good call not to fire the second missile.

The next step will be for the engineers to check out the missile firing system on the Helicopter, unfortunately the other half the problem is at the bottom of the sea and is probably irretrievable.

The good news is that I would have been a Telemetry round, which would monitor what was going on in the missile and should enable the engineers to establish exactly, what, went wrong.

My guess is something simple like a broken motor fire wire in the missile or possibly a failure of the missile power supply at the moment of launch, I doubt that is was the rocket motor that failed.
 

Adler

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Thanks for the articles Kotay :D . Did anyone know how much this Seaskua missile cost?
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
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Verified Defense Pro
chrisrobsoar said:
My guess is something simple like a broken motor fire wire in the missile or possibly a failure of the missile power supply at the moment of launch, I doubt that is was the rocket motor that failed.
Not sure if it applies to SeaSkua, but there is often a set number of usable mounts and dismounts for an aircraft mounted missile round. (It also applied to the Rapier Mk1 IIRC).

Once you hit the max number of mounts/dismounts the missile is supposed to be unusable unless the connections are rebuilt or the missile is zero timed.

If that SeaSkua was subject to a mount/dismount count, then maybe (just maybe) it had gone past the safety count??
 
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