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Juan Carlos / Canberra Class LHD

This is a discussion on Juan Carlos / Canberra Class LHD within the Navy & Maritime forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; EXCELLENT (long) article on Juan Carlos and Galicia class ships.Google : Amphibious Warfare Ships The Navantia Experience. Many diagrams , ...


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Old August 24th, 2012   #1
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Juan Carlos / Canberra Class LHD

EXCELLENT (long) article on Juan Carlos and Galicia class ships.Google : Amphibious Warfare Ships The Navantia Experience. Many diagrams , tables and photos.Well worthwhile.
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Old August 24th, 2012   #2
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EXCELLENT (long) article on Juan Carlos and Galicia class ships.Google : Amphibious Warfare Ships The Navantia Experience. Many diagrams , tables and photos.Well worthwhile.
This is the link http://infodefensa.com/wp-content/uploads/JCI_en_v2.pdf Its an 85 page PDF file in english by Francisco Javier Álvarez Laita & María Luisa Medina Arnáiz, sponsored by Navantia.
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Old March 5th, 2013   #3
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*this apears to be the most relevant existing thread I can post this in*

The Turkish Navy looks likely to build themselves a LHD based on the JC1

Major Turkish companies bid for country's first aircraft carrier

Would start as a Helicopter Carrier essentially and evolve into an Aircraft Carrier to be used by their F-35's when they arive in the future. The article seams to alude to changes in design to the original JC1 to suit Turkish needs but doesn't go on to specify what exactly.
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Old March 5th, 2013   #4
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*this apears to be the most relevant existing thread I can post this in*

The Turkish Navy looks likely to build themselves a LHD based on the JC1

Major Turkish companies bid for country's first aircraft carrier

Would start as a Helicopter Carrier essentially and evolve into an Aircraft Carrier to be used by their F-35's when they arive in the future. The article seams to alude to changes in design to the original JC1 to suit Turkish needs but doesn't go on to specify what exactly.
Having read the article, I have to wonder whether something did not translate correctly, or if this is another instance of journos writing about something which they do not understand, therefore they explain things incorrectly.

If the programme name is Landing Platform Dock, then that would seem to indicate that Turkey is interested in an amphib capability. Further on in the article it even specifically mentioned having capacity for 100 tracked military vehicles (which means a vehicle deck) and a pool for two LCAC (well dock).

The JCI was designed with weight for the F-35, and it is likely that design would carry over to other nations' follow-on builds, but that is still a far cry from calling an amphib an aircraft carrier. Me thinks the journos were overly enthused.

There is also the matter of whether or not Turkey will opt to get any F-35B models, and AFAIK while they are an F-35 partner, Turkish interest was always for the F-35A.

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Old March 5th, 2013   #5
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Yeah I have to admit I noticed some odd references in the article as well. I quickly checked on wikipedia to see if there was any reference there to it and got this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Carlos_I_(L61)

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Turkey

For couple of years, Turkey was considering to build a helicopter ship, however after January 2013, the project has been changed and transformed to helicopter and aircraft carrier. Turkish authority will select one builder among three potential companies (RMK, Desan and Sedef) to construct the first turkish aircraft carrier. Though it's not an export, L61 Juan Carlos is used as reference by 3 ship builders.

This aircraft carrier will have all requirements for JSF fighters which Turkey is considering to buy as well.
Will be very interesting to see where their direction goes. If they do decide on using the JC1 design I'd be keen to see how they manage it to pull off an Aircraft Carrier role.
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Old March 5th, 2013   #6
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Didn't think Turkey was gunning for the B.

Either way, the article seems a bit odd. Like Tod said, could easily be translation. But LPD isn't a LHD (like JC1) and a LHD certainly isn't what the article demonstrates as an aircraft carrier in the image

But still, can notch up another win for the JC1 I guess.
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Old March 5th, 2013   #7
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Yeah I have to admit I noticed some odd references in the article as well. I quickly checked on wikipedia to see if there was any reference there to it and got this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Carlos_I_(L61)



Will be very interesting to see where their direction goes. If they do decide on using the JC1 design I'd be keen to see how they manage it to pull off an Aircraft Carrier role.
Well the JC1 has been designed to operate in a STOVL capacity so no reason why the Turks cannot do the same if they follow the JC1 design.
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Old March 5th, 2013   #8
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Well the JC1 has been designed to operate in a STOVL capacity so no reason why the Turks cannot do the same if they follow the JC1 design.
JCI is designed to handle the heat, deck weight, and with the ramp allow for flight off of and landing on. Having said that though (and this goes back to some arguments in the RAN thread...) being able to fly F-35's from a vessel is not the same as the vessel being able to support F-35 operations.

The Spanish plan on using their LHD to maintain flight ops skills while the Spanish carrier is unavailable via maintenance, etc.

Unless there were to be a massive rearrangement of the internals for any Turkish design, then there would be insufficient aviation fuel and magazine space to sustain F-35 ops. Remember, the article specified the vessel having space for 100 tracked military vehicles which would require a fair amount of space and available weight. And that space is not exactly the sort where extra munitions or fuel could be safely stored.

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Old March 5th, 2013   #9
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The Spanish plan on using their LHD to maintain flight ops skills while the Spanish carrier is unavailable via maintenance, etc.
The Príncipe de Asturias was decommed on 06 Feb. Leaving only the LHD's.
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Old March 5th, 2013   #10
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JCI is designed to handle the heat, deck weight, and with the ramp allow for flight off of and landing on. Having said that though (and this goes back to some arguments in the RAN thread...) being able to fly F-35's from a vessel is not the same as the vessel being able to support F-35 operations.

The Spanish plan on using their LHD to maintain flight ops skills while the Spanish carrier is unavailable via maintenance, etc.

Unless there were to be a massive rearrangement of the internals for any Turkish design, then there would be insufficient aviation fuel and magazine space to sustain F-35 ops. Remember, the article specified the vessel having space for 100 tracked military vehicles which would require a fair amount of space and available weight. And that space is not exactly the sort where extra munitions or fuel could be safely stored.

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This has changed now they have decommissioned PdA I would assume that JC would be their sole fixed wing platform with no sign of a PdA replacement as it decommissioned a few weeks ago. as its the only thing in the fleet capable of Harrier and F35 capability.
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Old March 5th, 2013   #11
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That is if they want the F35B. Last I heard was some discussions with Spain about it in '08.

Although to be honest, how the current financial climate is in Spain I wouldn't like to comment about the realistic possibility of when an actual purchase will come about.

Trouble with the JC1 for me is that the ski jump is integral to the design, so it'd probably be nastily expensive to get it changed. You'd easily get another helo spot on the deck if she was flat. So for Turkey's purposes, that's a slot sacrificed to pretty much bail out an ally (i.e Italy/RN/USMC) if they got into trouble with one of their F35B's

I like the design of the ship, but that'd drive me up the wall if I had to give up a slot for the sake of a design requirement for an aircraft you've no intention of operating at all.

All that is based on the assumption that Turkey isn't getting B's.
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Old March 5th, 2013   #12
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The Príncipe de Asturias was decommed on 06 Feb. Leaving only the LHD's.
Interesting, I missed that. Was she decommed due to the Spanish economic crisis, or was she due to be paid off?

Also any work on a replacement for the PdA?

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Old March 5th, 2013   #13
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No replacement coming AFAIK, at least there wasn't any talk of one coming along when there was chatter about PdA leaving.

Leaving just JC1.
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Old March 5th, 2013   #14
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Interesting, I missed that. Was she decommed due to the Spanish economic crisis, or was she due to be paid off?

Also any work on a replacement for the PdA?

-Cheers
The ship was at a point where it would either be SLEP'ed or decommed. They choose to decom her for economic reasons.

Here are some pictures from her fairwell cruise.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-G7Ur5fpRIz...JAN%2B2013.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-BEiC7xLvRL...JAN%2B2013.jpg

I've seen her in Rota, Spain a couple times, good looking ship, a pity she wasn't modernized. It is also nice to see non-nuetered Perries.
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Old March 5th, 2013   #15
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Looking at those pics you really get a feel for how large the JC1 is, she litterally dwarfs the Aircraft carrier in size.
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