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Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force Thread

This is a discussion on Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force Thread within the Navy & Maritime forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; New Helicopter Carrier for Japanese Navy By Keith Henderson at October 11, 2011 07:35 Filed Under: Research & Development Details ...


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Old October 11th, 2011   #1
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Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force Thread

New Helicopter Carrier for Japanese Navy
By Keith Henderson at October 11, 2011 07:35
Filed Under: Research & Development

Details of the propulsion system for the new Helicopter Carrier of the Japanese Navy / Maritime Self-Defence Force (JMSDF) have been announced. To be built by IHI of Tokyo, the LOA 814 ft (248 m) and beam of 124 ft (38 m) vessel will have a fully loaded displacement of around 27,500 tons. The official Japanese 22DDH designation of the ship is of a “destroyer” but in reality it is a helicopter carrier. The reason for the diplomatic designation lies in the post World War 2 constitution which prohibits Japan to own aircraft carriers.

Japan already has two smaller Hyuga Class helicopter carriers of 18,000 tons full displacement and the new ship will become the largest vessels in the Japanese Navy.

The propulsion system comprises four GE LM2500 gas turbines of 33,600 hp (25 MW) each giving a total power of around 135,000 hp (100 MW) in a COGAG arrangement giving a speed of 30 kt. The ships will also be using GE’s smaller turbine, the LM500 with an output of approximately 6,000 hp (4.5MW) in a turbo-electric configuration for on board power generation.

The turbines will be built by GE licensee IHI with a delivery date of late 2012 for the LM500s and early 2013 for the LM2500 engines.

The LM2500 and LM500 gas turbines have been in service on a number of other ships of the JMSDF. LM2500s presently power the Hyuga helicopter carrier class, the destroyer classes Atago , Takanami, Murasame and Kongou: LM500 are in service on the Hayabusa class patrol boats and Sparviero fast attack class hydrofoils.
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Old October 11th, 2011   #2
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Nice its basicly just a tiny bit smaller in tonage and dimensions as a Essex class carrier of WW2.


This is also the class that introduced the angled flight deck.

Nice maybe the Japanese will buy some F-35B's.



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Originally Posted by gf0012-aust View Post
New Helicopter Carrier for Japanese Navy
By Keith Henderson at October 11, 2011 07:35
Filed Under: Research & Development

Details of the propulsion system for the new Helicopter Carrier of the Japanese Navy / Maritime Self-Defence Force (JMSDF) have been announced. To be built by IHI of Tokyo, the LOA 814 ft (248 m) and beam of 124 ft (38 m) vessel will have a fully loaded displacement of around 27,500 tons. The official Japanese 22DDH designation of the ship is of a “destroyer” but in reality it is a helicopter carrier. The reason for the diplomatic designation lies in the post World War 2 constitution which prohibits Japan to own aircraft carriers.

Japan already has two smaller Hyuga Class helicopter carriers of 18,000 tons full displacement and the new ship will become the largest vessels in the Japanese Navy.

The propulsion system comprises four GE LM2500 gas turbines of 33,600 hp (25 MW) each giving a total power of around 135,000 hp (100 MW) in a COGAG arrangement giving a speed of 30 kt. The ships will also be using GE’s smaller turbine, the LM500 with an output of approximately 6,000 hp (4.5MW) in a turbo-electric configuration for on board power generation.

The turbines will be built by GE licensee IHI with a delivery date of late 2012 for the LM500s and early 2013 for the LM2500 engines.

The LM2500 and LM500 gas turbines have been in service on a number of other ships of the JMSDF. LM2500s presently power the Hyuga helicopter carrier class, the destroyer classes Atago , Takanami, Murasame and Kongou: LM500 are in service on the Hayabusa class patrol boats and Sparviero fast attack class hydrofoils.
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Old October 11th, 2011   #3
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It’s interesting to gauge why the JMSDF has upsized their DDH (aka carrier) from the Hyuga class. There is nothing officially that the 022DDH can do that the Hyuga can’t. But the Invincible sized 022DDH has a lot more storage capacity. Ostensibly this is for carriage of passengers, troops and cargo for troop deployment or emergency relief. But all this could just as easily accommodate an air wing and stores for a STOVL fighter. The JSMDF fleet air force operates their P-3s so could easily introduce the F-35B into service.
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Old October 12th, 2011   #4
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Wouldnt introducing this carrier into service be breaking the treat of 1945? It states that Japan cannot have carriers or offensive weapons, and trying to build a carrier that could handle F-35b's would be breaking both of these rules. Does this treaty still apply at all?
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Old October 12th, 2011   #5
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... waiting for Swerve...
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Old October 12th, 2011   #6
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... waiting for Swerve...
He really shpuldn't pick on people who choose to drink and post......
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Old October 12th, 2011   #7
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Wouldnt introducing this carrier into service be breaking the treat of 1945? It states that Japan cannot have carriers or offensive weapons, and trying to build a carrier that could handle F-35b's would be breaking both of these rules. Does this treaty still apply at all?
Nope. I'll try to pre-empt swerve on this....

From memory their constitution (not the peace treaty) prevents them from getting "offensive aircraft carriers".

So all they have to do is say that it is a defensive aircraft carrier.
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Old October 12th, 2011   #8
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... waiting for Swerve...
Looks like he's missed his cue............

Nevermind looks like his understudy has taken up the slack
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Old October 12th, 2011   #9
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Nope. I'll try to pre-empt swerve on this....

From memory their constitution (not the peace treaty) prevents them from getting "offensive aircraft carriers".

So all they have to do is say that it is a defensive aircraft carrier.
Absolutely right.

The constitution isn't at all specific, & doesn't mention any particular weapons at all, but the official interpretation of it, as given on the MoD web site, is that Japan can't have offensive weapons, & IIRC it cites as examples nuclear weapons & "offensive aircraft carriers". I'm sure that "offensive" is not accidental.

The peace treaty doesn't say anything.


Am I really that famous? I'm embarrassed.

Last edited by swerve; October 12th, 2011 at 08:04 AM.
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Old October 12th, 2011   #10
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Am I really that famous? I'm embarrassed.
I've almost lost count on the number of times that you've had to give a lesson on the japanese constitutional issues of acquiring gear for self defence
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Old October 12th, 2011   #11
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Originally Posted by gf0012-aust View Post
New Helicopter Carrier for Japanese Navy
By Keith Henderson at October 11, 2011 07:35
Filed Under: Research & Development

Details of the propulsion system for the new Helicopter Carrier of the Japanese Navy / Maritime Self-Defence Force (JMSDF) have been announced. To be built by IHI of Tokyo, the LOA 814 ft (248 m) and beam of 124 ft (38 m) vessel will have a fully loaded displacement of around 27,500 tons....

The propulsion system comprises four GE LM2500 gas turbines of 33,600 hp (25 MW) each giving a total power of around 135,000 hp (100 MW) in a COGAG arrangement giving a speed of 30 kt. The ships will also be using GE’s smaller turbine, the LM500 with an output of approximately 6,000 hp (4.5MW) in a turbo-electric configuration for on board power generation.
...
The LM2500 and LM500 gas turbines have been in service on a number of other ships of the JMSDF. LM2500s presently power the Hyuga helicopter carrier class, the destroyer classes Atago , Takanami, Murasame and Kongou: LM500 are in service on the Hayabusa class patrol boats and Sparviero fast attack class hydrofoils.
4 x LM2500 is the same as the main power plant of Cavour, which has almost the same dimensions (4 metres shorter, 1 metre wider).
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Old October 12th, 2011   #12
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The funky part about the propulsion is that IHI always has to order the LM2500 for JMSDF ships straight from GE Marine because they only have the license to build the 20 MW and 30 MW variants - and the JMSDF uses the 25 MW standard version.

Nothing to do with FMS money at all
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Old October 14th, 2011   #13
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4 x LM2500 is the same as the main power plant of Cavour, which has almost the same dimensions (4 metres shorter, 1 metre wider).
Seems like a very fast helo ship. It is sounding more and more like a carrier.

But I doubt the Japanese getting F-35B immediately. There are quiet a few hurdles to get over before they can operate this ship as a carrier.
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Old October 14th, 2011   #14
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The LM2500 is a easy to maintain engine and powerful. Will be interesting to see this "carrier"
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Old October 15th, 2011   #15
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Seems like a very fast helo ship. It is sounding more and more like a carrier.
Same as Hyuuga & Ise, & they really are helicopter ships. There have been plenty of other helicopter carriers around that speed, e.g. the non-through deck helicopter cruisers Jeanne d'Arc & Vittorio Veneto. You could also count Andrea Doria & Caio Duilio, though they'd be thought of as just destroyers (or even frigates) with large flight decks now.

Even the Invincible class was originally intended for helicopters only, with a Vittorio Veneto style deck being considered before the through deck configuration was adopted.

All of the above were fast.
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