INS Vikramaditya - training flight deck personnel

swerve

Super Moderator
This has already been discussed here. Experienced Indian Navy pilots are undergoing carrier conversion in the USA, on T-45s. The programme has been underway for some time.

There are press releases on the internet.
 

harryriedl

Active Member
Verified Defense Pro
^^^ Swerve,

Many thanks for your early reply.

Yes - I have searched the other threads before posting, and I am aware of the pilot training at P'Cola - however, my specific question is, with the return from V/Stol to conventional carrier ops - where will the INS aircraft handlers, and related flight deck personnel, be trained for the new skills required.
I know that in Goa they have painted a mock up of the flight deck
 

swerve

Super Moderator
^^^ Swerve,

Many thanks for your early reply.

Yes - I have searched the other threads before posting, and I am aware of the pilot training at P'Cola - however, my specific question is, with the return from V/Stol to STOBAR carrier operations - where will the INS aircraft handlers, and related flight deck personnel, be trained for the new skills required.
Sorry, I missed that. I see now that's what your original post asked. Afraid I don't know. It's 19 years since they retired their Alizes, their last catapult/arrestor aircraft, so I think they're effectively starting from scratch.
 

AegisFC

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
I'd assume that the Russians would train at least the first batch of sailors on the arrestor gear. The aircraft handling can't be that much different than what they have now, they don't have catapults to hook up or maintain so just moving aircraft around shouldn't be that much harder to learn than what they do now, but any retraining of the crew would probably happen with the Russians since it is all Russian equipment.
 

Salty Dog

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
With the approach of INS Vikramaditya into operational service, and a return to the conventional 'arrestor recovery' flight deck, where will the flight deck crews be trained for the new skills required.

Do the Indian Navy intend to send the new generation of flight deck crews who will handle the Mig29k to the United States, or Russia, for specialised training on conventional carriers.
This is quite a challenge. From the flight deck plane handling point of view there is quite a difference in working with a high powered fighter such as a Mig-29 than helicopters and Sea Harriers. The Brazilian Navy went through this experience when they acquired their A-4s last decade.

Formal training can be via an Aviation Boatswains Mate course. There is also OJT and crossdeck opportunities most likely with the USA, France, or Russia.

The obvious difference between STOBAR and CATOBAR is the catapault. The arrestor gear operators are most likely the same, whilst on launch end, the retents hookup and launch sequence for STOBAR will be quite different than a cat hookup and launch. With no catapault, the STOBAR "shooters" aren't going to be concerned with proper launch pressures for different types and weights of aircraft.
 

Sea Toby

New Member
Naval aviation has always been dangerous. While many of this generation's naval pilots may have lost the skill to land on a carrier using the wires on a pitching deck, any pilot worthy of naval wings can learn quickly. India did not have a huge problem with the Vikrant, and I don't expect much difficulty with the new carriers being built.

Many of the skills can be learned on flat land, just mark off the carriers outline with paint. The pitching deck is another skill which should be quickly learned when the new carriers are commissioned. Lets not make mountains out of mole hills, please.

Once the new carriers are delivered and commissioned, I would suspect most of India's naval aviators will be qualified for deck landings within a month.

From my experience with commerical airliners, I can tell by the landing whether the pilot was a naval aviator or an air force pilot.
 

rabs

New Member
I'd assume that the Russians would train at least the first batch of sailors on the arrestor gear.

Have not the Russians themselves struggled with carrier operations?

I recall a fairly high accident rate among their carrier squadrons.
 

AegisFC

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Have not the Russians themselves struggled with carrier operations?

I recall a fairly high accident rate among their carrier squadrons.
Yes, but the arrestor gear on the INS Vikramaditya is Russian, it won't do the Indians any good to train the deck handlers and equipment operators on US or French made equipment.
 

davros

New Member
Naval aviation has always been dangerous. While many of this generation's naval pilots may have lost the skill to land on a carrier using the wires on a pitching deck, any pilot worthy of naval wings can learn quickly. India did not have a huge problem with the Vikrant, and I don't expect much difficulty with the new carriers being built.

Many of the skills can be learned on flat land, just mark off the carriers outline with paint. The pitching deck is another skill which should be quickly learned when the new carriers are commissioned. Lets not make mountains out of mole hills, please.

Once the new carriers are delivered and commissioned, I would suspect most of India's naval aviators will be qualified for deck landings within a month.

From my experience with commerical airliners, I can tell by the landing whether the pilot was a naval aviator or an air force pilot.
Back in the 60's the royal navy had a very high death rate on board its carrier's, I wouldnt have thought it would take to long for pilots to learn landing on a carrier back in the 70's a fair amount of the pilots on the Ark where from the RAF and didnt have any experince of landing on a carrier.
 

davros

New Member
That's very interesting.

Could you provide further details to support your statement that a 'fair amount' of RAF pilots were trained to land on the Ark Royal in the Nineteen Seventies.

It would be helpful if you could include details of your original source of information - in order to cross reference and verify the accuracy of your post.
Its mentioned in the Ark Royal book, and on the TV series Sailor that was made on board the Ark in 1976, the 2nd episode the carriers squadrons are landed on and there was a newbie from the RAF who had never flown onto the deck he had 2 rollers and 4 bolters before getting on to the wire, apparently for the rest of his 6 month deployment he only had 1 bolter so it cant take to long to get the hang of carrier landings if your a good pilot.
 

swiss_navy

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17
Its mentioned in the Ark Royal book, and on the TV series Sailor that was made on board the Ark in 1976, the 2nd episode the carriers squadrons are landed on and there was a newbie from the RAF who had never flown onto the deck he had 2 rollers and 4 bolters before getting on to the wire, apparently for the rest of his 6 month deployment he only had 1 bolter so it cant take to long to get the hang of carrier landings if your a good pilot.
It is necessary (once again) to repeat the question. How many is a 'fair amount'.

Can you be more specific on the aircraft types flown, and with which squadron's.

How many RAF pilots served on board the Ark Royal.

Beyond reading a book, and watching a thirty-two year old television programme,
what actual qualifications do you have, to be in a position to deliver the opinion:
" I wouldnt have thought it would take too long for pilots to learn landing on a carrier."

[Late edit]

With apologies to earlier contributors (who remained on topic) the original,
and all subsequent posts from the author, are deleted due to thread drift.
 
Last edited:

davros

New Member
well Phantoms and Buccaneers, I am not sure on the exact figure it was just a general statement I can find out but haven't got the time.
 
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