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Indonesia: 'green water navy'

This is a discussion on Indonesia: 'green water navy' within the Navy & Maritime forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Indonesian navy should focus on enlargement of multipurpose combat vessel, maybe OPV or LPD. With a large EZZ, current asset ...


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Old December 21st, 2008   #76
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Indonesian navy should focus on enlargement of multipurpose combat vessel, maybe OPV or LPD.

With a large EZZ, current asset of Indonesian navy are not balance or too small. With more asset to be phased out within 3 years from now, Indonesian Navy have no choice to acquired a long wait asset (waiting too long will effect the operation).

Nakhoda Ragam Class corvette of RBN should be a good choice. Even better if can be fitted with PRC C-802 missile.
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Old December 26th, 2008   #77
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Cuurent Plan

There's a blog by a guy id 'dsofandi' http://alusista.blogspot.com. He has quite large news and info on Indonesian Defence procurement and manufacturing projects. Just most of the info is in Indonesian.

By short, Indonesian naval procurement will be based on what PT. PAL (National Dockyard) can produced (either by them self or through underlicence and joint venture agreement).

High on the current list will be:
New Fasy Patrol Boat (FPB 60) which is development of locally manufactured lurseen FPB 57.
National Corvette: Seems will be based to new Italian 'Commandante' corvetes (though enlarge so it will have 105 meter length).

Also PAL in the recently Indodefence exhibition, show their Helicopter Carrier (LPH) design as natural progresstion from current South Korean LPD design that they are now currently building.
The design clearly show a 'mercantile' hull with single propeler and also with 16 knots max speed. So not a fancy Euro LPH design.

This show that we'are still commited for 'green water' navy, and slowly building capacity for manufacturing locally.
Sorry can not provide link to the blog. Try it, but seems make some mistakes on doing it..

But any of you guys interested on what we are developing, this guy blog content enough info that especially those who understand bahasa can digest.

Cheers.
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Old December 31st, 2008   #78
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Indonesian Armed Forces has a great history during time of Sukarno. However, the glory history not lasted when from year to years Indonesian Armed Forces lost most of their asset & equipment. Evenmore, the 1998 crisis made the military budget become even worst.

However, starting in new millenia, Indonesia Armed Forces seem get back their spirits. With Land Forces & Airforces asset & equipment seem can be modernisation espscially with locally made & assemble, now time for Navy to show off.

Makasar Class LPD, FPB 57, CN-235MPA and various small boat now being manufactured locally as plan to modern the navy. The decision to armed most of combat surface ship with C-802 is wise but the decision purcahsing Sigma Class Corvette seem not quite good.
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Old December 31st, 2008   #79
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Aren't the Indonesian's buying a couple of Gorshov frigates as well as Amur subs?

Not exactly green water ships, but should add some major capability...
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Old January 1st, 2009   #80
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No much talking on Frigates deals from rusian, but there's quite a lot of talk on Amurs subs. There's still dividing opinion between the brass in Defence Ministry and the Armed Forces on Rusian Equipments.

Type 209 is defenetely outclassed by the Amur's...however many interest on state strategic industries seems to push for additional 209, simply because the promised deal by South Korean to help PAL in building submarine manufacturing facilities locally.

Thus it seems ( at least in current administration view) whoever can provide more technological transfer with much attractive financing scheme will go...
Off course it can change if the current administration loss the next election.

Cheers
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Old January 1st, 2009   #81
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Success story of South Korean-Indonesian deal for Makassar Class LPD could be a milestone for more co-op between two nation.

To many military deal with either US or Russian will put Indonesian Government indifferent since both nation has a long history with Indonesian population especially post 9/11.

South Korean technologies for Navy vessel has been recognised and on par with NATO standard. It's a good turning point for Indonesian Navy.
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Old February 6th, 2009   #82
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I think that KRI Diponegoro the first of class of the Dutch-built Sigma looks pretty cool.
The TNI AL is also deploying her for a first ever deployment to UNIFIL -Maritime Taskforce. This will surely be a sign to the world that she is back in the running.
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Old March 16th, 2009   #83
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I've just see a Feb 2009 BBC report that states that the Indonesia's navy's ability to perform regular patrols is affected, as their debt to the state oil company, Pertamina, has grown to $400m (277m) since the 2004 Asian tsunami.

Is this true that funding for the Indonesian navy is such an issue?
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Old March 17th, 2009   #84
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I've just see a Feb 2009 BBC report that states that the Indonesia's navy's ability to perform regular patrols is affected, as their debt to the state oil company, Pertamina, has grown to $400m (277m) since the 2004 Asian tsunami.

Is this true that funding for the Indonesian navy is such an issue?

On Pertamina issuee..?? Nahhh, that's only what Pertamina grumbling to Government that they still have unresolved receivables with several government institutions..
The issue happening actually by end of last year..when there's a lot off talk on then Pertamina's CEO to resign due to decreasing performance of Pertamina. It's just another talk to show that Pertamina's problem also related to other factor's (kind of self defence on then CEO). The talk subside after the CEO being replace last month.
Also at that time there's a lot of talked on how much the defence spending should be allocated, so I would not be suprise if the talk also coming from internal Navy..just to increase leverage on getting next year (2009) defence allocation.

However what's true that the navy currently can only operated 70% at most of their vessels. That's already improvement from 45% on 2004 (sources from Navy Commander interview on Tempo Newspaper last December)
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Old May 6th, 2009   #85
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Indonesian Trimaran Concept.. ??

X3KTrimaran2.jpg (image)

X3KTrimaran1.jpg (image)

North Sea Boats X3K Trimaran
Dimensions :

Length (over all) : 55 meter
Beam : 16 meter
Draught : 2 meter
Main engine : 4 x C32 Caterpillar
Max speed : 40 Knots
Range : 2000 nm
Displacement : 130 tons

From ALUTSISTA : ALAT UTAMA SISTEM SENJATA: Kapal Patroli

Actually it's kind a old, has been shown in Last December Indodefences.

My Questions is:

1. Did any you guys have info if Austal involve in this ? since the trimaran concept very similar (if not much smaller) than what Austal have
2. Is it possible to mount light cannon above the superstructures..??

Just currious since this's in my oppinion still a very raw concept.
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Old May 6th, 2009   #86
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Originally Posted by Ananda View Post
X3KTrimaran2.jpg (image)

X3KTrimaran1.jpg (image)

North Sea Boats X3K Trimaran
Dimensions :

Length (over all) : 55 meter
Beam : 16 meter
Draught : 2 meter
Main engine : 4 x C32 Caterpillar
Max speed : 40 Knots
Range : 2000 nm
Displacement : 130 tons

From ALUTSISTA : ALAT UTAMA SISTEM SENJATA: Kapal Patroli

Actually it's kind a old, has been shown in Last December Indodefences.

My Questions is:

1. Did any you guys have info if Austal involve in this ? since the trimaran concept very similar (if not much smaller) than what Austal have
2. Is it possible to mount light cannon above the superstructures..??

Just currious since this's in my oppinion still a very raw concept.
Honestly, it looks more like a yacht then a warship.
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Old May 6th, 2009   #87
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Originally Posted by Ananda View Post
My Questions is:

1. Did any you guys have info if Austal involve in this ? since the trimaran concept very similar (if not much smaller) than what Austal have
2. Is it possible to mount light cannon above the superstructures..??

Just currious since this's in my oppinion still a very raw concept.
I seriously doubt its an Austal design. I've got all their current designs (sent to me when I was on a different contract)

The ratios in that design are all a bit out of kilter. I can't see that it's a serious concept from a known builder.
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Old May 6th, 2009   #88
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I seriously doubt its an Austal design. I've got all their current designs (sent to me when I was on a different contract)

The ratios in that design are all a bit out of kilter. I can't see that it's a serious concept from a known builder.
Thanks Guys,

Been want to ask this for some time since see it in Indodefence, however keep forgotting..
Seems rather odd even for a guy with little naval knowledge like me..especially looking on Multipurpose canon on top the superstructures.

Anyway the company is a local ones own by a Swedish enterpreneurs..most of their products that being heard used by the military in here are RHIB's.
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Old May 6th, 2009   #89
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Seems rather odd even for a guy with little naval knowledge like me..especially looking on Multipurpose canon on top the superstructures.

.
The length/beam/centre of balance ratios are really quite out of whack and it would be awful in open water. Long nose trimarans are over 100m for a reason.

Indonesia is better served (IMO) by having fast cats that are flat packers for green water use.

You've got thousands of islands and minimal infrastructure, so your ships have to double up as trucks. A flat pack cat could go fast in your important green water areas ,yet carry a company and light vehicles.

It would be inherently more stable and functional than that trimaran design.
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Old May 27th, 2009   #90
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The length/beam/centre of balance ratios are really quite out of whack and it would be awful in open water. Long nose trimarans are over 100m for a reason.

Indonesia is better served (IMO) by having fast cats that are flat packers for green water use.

You've got thousands of islands and minimal infrastructure, so your ships have to double up as trucks. A flat pack cat could go fast in your important green water areas ,yet carry a company and light vehicles.

It would be inherently more stable and functional than that trimaran design.
Well, I'd have to disagree, I think that design looks like it would be a great option. Has anyone heard anything further about whether it's going ahead?
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