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Indonesia: 'green water navy'

This is a discussion on Indonesia: 'green water navy' within the Navy & Maritime forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; French, Indonesian naval firms extend submarine study Seems like Australia,..Indonesia decided to 'potentially' goes 'French' on the next Submarine projects. ...


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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #676
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Scorpene ?

French, Indonesian naval firms extend submarine study

Seems like Australia,..Indonesia decided to 'potentially' goes 'French' on the next Submarine projects.
According to this, Indonesia not really happy with the pace of 'tech transfer' on Submarine manufacturing with South Korea..Despite already invest more than USD 100mio on Submarine Yard facility..modelled frm DSME submarine facility..PAL decided to have talk with French DCNS 3 years ago..indicating that as report says..they are not really satisfied with the pace of Submarine cooperation with DSME.

Will it then definetely goes to French ? Well like everything in Indonesian procurement..it full of 'sudden twist' on condition.
Pal besides with DSME on current projects..also talk with French DCNS, Swedish SAAB..and Russian Rubin for potential tech transfer on Submarine.
However DCNS already shown local manufacturing projects with Pakistan and India..thus they do have 'model' for join cooperation that workable for local submarine manufacturing..thus on that side seems DCNS track record can back it up..
So..we'll see when it happen..

@Sandhi Yudha..on Kelewang 'stealth' FPB projects..no much talk on this progress..except that Saab already move out as Tech supplier..seems Saab already seen that the current admin and naval heads did not shown much enthusiasm on the projects. The Navy now shown more intention to invest in litoral FPB with local design 40m and 60 m that churning out from local shipyards.

They want to invest big up to 42 FPB of that PC 40, and PC 60 design, which is based on locally designed Fast Missiles Boats (KCR in Indonesian) 40 and 60.
With Navy intention on KCR 40 and KCR 60 as also PC 40 and PC 60..indicating that Navy wants to invest on more conventional proven design then 'stealth' design on Kelewang.
Still so far in media, they still want to see at least one 'stealth' as tech demonstrator..
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #677
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French, Indonesian naval firms extend submarine study

Seems like Australia,..Indonesia decided to 'potentially' goes 'French' on the next Submarine projects.
According to this, Indonesia not really happy with the pace of 'tech transfer' on Submarine manufacturing with South Korea..Despite already invest more than USD 100mio on Submarine Yard facility..modelled frm DSME submarine facility..PAL decided to have talk with French DCNS 3 years ago..indicating that as report says..they are not really satisfied with the pace of Submarine cooperation with DSME.

Will it then definetely goes to French ? Well like everything in Indonesian procurement..it full of 'sudden twist' on condition.
Pal besides with DSME on current projects..also talk with French DCNS, Swedish SAAB..and Russian Rubin for potential tech transfer on Submarine.
However DCNS already shown local manufacturing projects with Pakistan and India..thus they do have 'model' for join cooperation that workable for local submarine manufacturing..thus on that side seems DCNS track record can back it up..
So..we'll see when it happen..

@Sandhi Yudha..on Kelewang 'stealth' FPB projects..no much talk on this progress..except that Saab already move out as Tech supplier..seems Saab already seen that the current admin and naval heads did not shown much enthusiasm on the projects. The Navy now shown more intention to invest in litoral FPB with local design 40m and 60 m that churning out from local shipyards.

They want to invest big up to 42 FPB of that PC 40, and PC 60 design, which is based on locally designed Fast Missiles Boats (KCR in Indonesian) 40 and 60.
With Navy intention on KCR 40 and KCR 60 as also PC 40 and PC 60..indicating that Navy wants to invest on more conventional proven design then 'stealth' design on Kelewang.
Still so far in media, they still want to see at least one 'stealth' as tech demonstrator..
Thanks for sharing and replying, Ananda!
About the "Scorpene and potential surface vessels"...its just a plan under study.... As you already said, you can expect plot twists any moment....specially cancellations...
Well at least we have ordered 18 more Caesar 155 mm artillery systems, I think that's the first large defence order from this administration, right?
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #678
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To be fair, they (the present admin) are already sign contract for 2nd batch KCR 60 missiles boats and further contract for PC40 and PC60 patrol boats. Also they seems already sign agreement with LM on MLU for original 10 F-16 A/B OCU to have same standard with the upgrade 24 F-15 C/D.

But yes..basically what they are doing right now is finishing previous admin procurements.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #679
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To be fair, they (the present admin) are already sign contract for 2nd batch KCR 60 missiles boats and further contract for PC40 and PC60 patrol boats. Also they seems already sign agreement with LM on MLU for original 10 F-16 A/B OCU to have same standard with the upgrade 24 F-15 C/D.

But yes..basically what they are doing right now is finishing previous admin procurements.
Well, nice to know that they also doing more than just harvest new defence materials which were all ordered by the previous administration.
About the KCR-60/ Sampari Class, the plan is to order 35 pcs of them in total, right?
The first three of these ships are all armed with old obsolete Bofors 57 Mk1 guns, are these things all second hand? And do they really plan to arm all of those 35 ships with that stuff?
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #680
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Sandhi come on..35 KCR 60? Before that they talk 16..then 35..then 42..for KCR both KCR 40 and 60..they change the number so much..sometimes either it's deliberately..or simply they haven't got fix number the budget can support.

So I tend to stick the number set by previous admin Minister of Defence Purnomo then what current administration Mindef said.
Purnomo set the number to aim at 16 KCR 40, 16 KCR 60 and 16 PC 40..so total 48..

This talk of 42 PC 40..or 44 KCR 40 and 60..I still believe it derived of the number targeted by previous admin on total KCR (missile boats) and PC (patrol boats)..that I've mentioned before..afterall they are now basically still following the plan set by previous admin.
The local forum full on speculations of 80+ litoral missiles and patrol boats based on what the media report of 42 PC and 44 KCR..but I believe getting the number that Purnomo's set..is already achievement if they can reach it. Considering the capacity of local shipyard plus the aim for other naval program and available budget..then I again believe that 48 of total KCR and PC is the most they can get..

As for 57mm boffors..well they are still using 40mm old boffors gun frm old ships that being decom..they plan for KCR 60 got 57mk3..but I believe when I see it..
There is also talk on using Chinese Type 730..or even AK-630 (chinese version) that already being put on 1st batch of KCR 40..

Again I believe when I see it..
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Old 1 Week Ago   #681
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Indonesian Navy receives pitch for Type 214 submarine from Golcük Shipyard | IHS Jane's 360

Seems The Turks (which frm what I heard works together with TKMS)..Continue their luck with now 214. Previous bid for 209, they lost to Korean DSME. With the French offering local manufacturing for Scorpene (whether Scorpene 1000 or 2000), it's seems French design vs German design..

The Russian still try their luck with their Latest Kilo's design..but politically..without local manufacturing (which the French, Korean and now Turks/German offering)..don't see how the Russian offer can be accepted.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #682
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Indonesian Navy receives pitch for Type 214 submarine from Golcük Shipyard | IHS Jane's 360

Seems The Turks (which frm what I heard works together with TKMS)..Continue their luck with now 214. Previous bid for 209, they lost to Korean DSME. With the French offering local manufacturing for Scorpene (whether Scorpene 1000 or 2000), it's seems French design vs German design..

The Russian still try their luck with their Latest Kilo's design..but politically..without local manufacturing (which the French, Korean and now Turks/German offering)..don't see how the Russian offer can be accepted.
Well, we will see how it ends. The strongest point from the Type 636 is that it can fire 3M54 anti-ship, anti-submarine and land targets missiles. The Scorpenes can only fire the SM39 Exocet anti-ship missiles, and from which i understand, the Type 214 is "UGM-84 capable".
But i think the prize and amount of ToT has a higher priority than the capabilities in this acquisition.

Btw, any news about the livery of the first of three Type 209 ordered? The first one should be delivered this year, like the SIGMA 10514 frigates.
Also about the SIGMA 10514, very quiet the last period....

Last edited by Sandhi Yudha; 1 Week Ago at 02:08 AM. Reason: additional text.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #683
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The first Sigma 10514 Light Frigates/Corvette KRI RE Martadinata already being handed over on 7th this month.
KRI RE Martadinata 331 Perkuat Armada TNI AL di Wilayah Timur | Nasional | Beritasatu.com

While the first DSME 209 will arrived schedulled end of this month or next from DSME Korea. Already named KRI Nagapasa.

The question now is the follow on project of next PKR or DSME 209. Whether PAL will continoue with DSME on Sigma project 10514 or enlarge version (Damen do bring enlarge model of Sigma 11415 to Indodefence last year)..still not set in contract yet.

Also what is the next submarine project that come out from PAL, as they already finishing their Submarine yard..whether still another DSME 209 design..or another design like 214 or Scorpene..it's not set in any contract yet.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #684
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Thank you for sharing Ananda!

"Badan kapal utama memakan biaya hingga US$ 220 juta, sedangkan perlengkapan senilai US$ 110 juta sehingga secara keseluruhan US$ 330 juta."
Well...I really hope it is delivered completely with all sensor and weapon systems, until now i never see an image with the Oerlikon Millenium 35 mm CIWS installed.

The first SIGMA 10514 fregat, KRI RE Martadinata 331, was handed over to TNI-AL on 7 April, but this important event was not really exposed in the Indonesian media....

I also found this, http://products.damen.com/en/ranges/...dy-martadinata , but Damen/Koninklijke Schelde doesn't give much information.

I also can not find any information about the SIGMA 11415 design....
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Old 3 Days Ago   #685
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Sorry, it should be Sigma 11516, got this drawing from Damen news sites, when they bring the model to last year Indodefence. But sorry can't attach it, since it's larger then the forum regulations on attachements.

Basically it's enlarge version of 10514, from the drawing seems have provision for 8 Mk 41 VLS..but then again it's my interpretation based on the drawing. Got provision for 2 RHIB davit in slipway models in stern (kind of PALFINGER Marine models)..at least the model in Indodefence shown that..
Well asside frm that..it's similar in appearences to 10514.

There are talks that Damen bring the design cause for 2nd batch PKR, TNI-AL wants larger design.again it's just talk, since the 2nd batch PKR contract still not have any definitive info when to be signed..it should be this year..but you know how the tracked record on Jokowi's admin on closing procurement contract..
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