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Indonesia: 'green water navy'

This is a discussion on Indonesia: 'green water navy' within the Navy & Maritime forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Yes most probably Singapore and or Malaysia will secure LHD capabilities before Indonesia. I can't see any direct threat to ...


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Old July 21st, 2005   #31
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Re: Indonesia: 'green water navy'

Yes most probably Singapore and or Malaysia will secure LHD capabilities before Indonesia.

I can't see any direct threat to Indonesia by regional neighbours, I think domestic secuirty to prevent piracy in the waters that belong to Indonesia should be a priority for the Indonesian Navy. This doctrine would not only aid Indonesia's security but also the rest of the region in my view.
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Old July 22nd, 2005   #32
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Re: Indonesia: 'green water navy'

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArjunMK1
Continuing my previous post ;

Can any body tell me the nations who are hostile against Indonesia and requires a large navy to be stopped !!

I think Indonesia is among peaceful ASEAN neighbours and its only threat is the separists !!
You're right when you say Asean is a friendly community, but every country must prepare when a worst happen, like a famous quote 'if you want a peace you must ready for a battle'.
About a LHD, i'm personally agree that our navy need that ship.I only doesn't know how we get the money to buy But who knows ? maybe 15-20 years later we can get that ship.
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Old July 29th, 2005   #33
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Re: Indonesia: 'green water navy'

Just another reason why we should have a sufficient naval force


RI demands extradition of Malaysian officers over trespassing incident

JAKARTA (Antara): Indonesia has requested the extradition of Malaysian officers for allegedly foiling an arrest of illegal fishermen, foreign ministry spokesman Yuri Thamrin said on Friday.

Yuri said that the Malaysian officers aboard a warship demanded the release of three Malaysian trawlers being escorted on Wednesday to a nearby port for illegally fishing in Indonesian waters.

"They clearly violated our maritime territory," Yuri said.

The government has also conveyed a strong protest message to the Malaysian government accusing Kuala Lumpur of violating Indonesian territory after the Malaysian warship was spotted off Jemur island, technically part of North Sumatra province, he said.

"We have sent a protest note to the Malaysian government, demanding an investigation," he said. The neighboring countries have been involved in heated arguments for months over the possession of a lucrative oil-producing areas in the Sulawesi Sea. Both have deployed warships to the area and traded accusations of maritime border violations

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Old July 30th, 2005   #34
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Re: Indonesia: 'green water navy'

Indonesia and Malaysia came very close to a major naval battle a little while ago. It was only a phone call from the chief of the TNI to his Malaysian counterpart that stopped a shooting war.

Last thing everybody needs is a hot little war in SE Asia.
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Old July 30th, 2005   #35
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Re: Indonesia: 'green water navy'

Quote:
Originally Posted by AMTP10E
Indonesia and Malaysia came very close to a major naval battle a little while ago. It was only a phone call from the chief of the TNI to his Malaysian counterpart that stopped a shooting war.

Last thing everybody needs is a hot little war in SE Asia.
Yes, it'd probably be a short sharp affair to start with and then drag on for an interminable bit of sniping here and there. It wouldn't do much for ASEAN that's for sure. Particularly now everybody has signed up and promised (possibly with fingers crossed) NOT to be aggressive...
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Old August 7th, 2005   #36
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Re: Indonesia: 'green water navy'

FFV's, people smugglers and other boader violators must be prevented from entering other nations water terrirtory. Australia has had operation Cranberry running since 1997 to protect our EEZ. This is especially important due national security issues that are prevalent now with the war on terror.
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Old August 8th, 2005   #37
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Re: Indonesia: 'green water navy'

Quote:
Originally Posted by pasukangeraktjepat
Just another reason why we should have a sufficient naval force


RI demands extradition of Malaysian officers over trespassing incident

JAKARTA (Antara): Indonesia has requested the extradition of Malaysian officers for allegedly foiling an arrest of illegal fishermen, foreign ministry spokesman Yuri Thamrin said on Friday.

Yuri said that the Malaysian officers aboard a warship demanded the release of three Malaysian trawlers being escorted on Wednesday to a nearby port for illegally fishing in Indonesian waters.

"They clearly violated our maritime territory," Yuri said.

The government has also conveyed a strong protest message to the Malaysian government accusing Kuala Lumpur of violating Indonesian territory after the Malaysian warship was spotted off Jemur island, technically part of North Sumatra province, he said.

"We have sent a protest note to the Malaysian government, demanding an investigation," he said. The neighboring countries have been involved in heated arguments for months over the possession of a lucrative oil-producing areas in the Sulawesi Sea. Both have deployed warships to the area and traded accusations of maritime border violations



RI Files Complaint Over Territorial Violation by KL
Friday, July 29, 2005

Eva C. Komandjaja, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta

Indonesia has lodged a protest with the Malaysian government over the foiled
arrest of a number of fishermen aboard three Malaysian trawlers and a possible
territorial violation.

Director of the Water Police squad Brig. Gen. N. Sutisna said on Thursday the
fish poachers had used the presence of an incoming Malaysian warship and
helicopter to evade their arrest by Indonesian officers.

The incident took place in the waters off Jumhur island in North Sumatra on
Wednesday, when the police patrol boat was escorting the Malaysian trawlers to
the nearest port, according to Sutisna.

"We let go of the fish poachers as we were forced at gun point by the
Malaysian seamen. They intimidated us and made our officers go aboard the
Malaysian
naval ship," Sutisna said.

When asked if the Malaysian warship had trespassed Indonesian waters, Sutisna
said: "It's a clear intrusion into Indonesian territory."

Ministry of Foreign Affairs officials were not available for comment on
Thursday.

The incident added to previous territorial disputes involving Indonesian and
Malaysian military officers. Indonesian and Malaysian warships brushed with
each other on April 8 in the border area near disputed oil and gas block
Ambalat in the Sulawesi Sea.

Sutisna said the latest incident began when the patrolling water police
intercepted the Malaysian trawlers in three separate locations in North
Sumatra waters, near the international lane of the Strait of Malacca.

"We captured the first trawler, bearing registration number PKSB 57, at 6:30
a.m. local time around 11 nautical miles from Jumur island and found the
second, PKSB 646, around 15 miles from the island at 7:30 a.m.. The third
trawler was located half an hour after the second boat was intercepted," Sutisna said, adding that the three trawlers were poaching in Indonesian waters.

Sutisna said several police officers had been placed in each of the trawlers
en route to the nearest port, where the fishermen would undergo questioning. (this is a good track record?? three trawlers in one go...good one)

"Suddenly we saw a Malaysian warship KP Knembela 14 and a M-502 helicopter approaching," Sutisna said.

Encouraged by the arrival of the Malaysian warship and helicopter, the
fishermen put up a fight, using machetes and iron bars.

"Since they are foreign citizens we did not fight back. We were outnumbered," Sutisna said.(thanks, hmm..nice of U though)

He said the trawlers were released after an argument with the Malaysian navy officers.(well just a heated one, no one hurt, this is what we called sea diplomacy)

"We contacted the Malaysian police afterward, asking them to arrest the
poachers and hand them over to us. But so far we haven't received any
respond," Sutisna said.

He added that he had contacted foreign ministry officials who were in a
meeting with their Malaysian counterparts in Yogyakarta for talks on the
Ambalat dispute.

"We were told the ministry would lodge a strong protest with the Malaysian
government regarding the incident," Sutisna said.

Source from The Jakarta Post
Friday, July 29, 2005 (unless in bracket)

p/s so many reports from Indonesian report on can be find on this issue, I hardly saw any report from Malaysian press...they might busy writing other things.

Just a note:
It is a known among Malaysian fisherman to pay large sum of money to a `group with heavy weapons' when they board their fishing vessel or their vessel being pulled to our `thy neighbour land'. Not sure about this particular case though. It is a thin line of maritime border at the straits, we never to sure where we are.

IN do need a large patrol ship. In addition, a good rewards to the IN personel also required, this will give them a good motivation. Our army just received an increase salary package, this at least will enhances their spirit. Malaysia always believe in the idea of prospering the neighbour. Eventhough I still remember the slogan `Ganyang Malaysia!!' utter by the citizen of Indonesia. But there will be no war. We now are too much dependence to each other.

Last edited by CSS; August 8th, 2005 at 08:10 AM.
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Old August 10th, 2005   #38
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Re: Indonesia: 'green water navy'

Just a thought.
Isn't it in Australia's interest to have an Indonesia a bit mor powerful to make a shield against the growing threat up North?
I mean, just like US used Canada and Europa as a pillow against soviets in the old days.
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Old August 11th, 2005   #39
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Re: Indonesia: 'green water navy'

which "north" do you mean
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Old August 11th, 2005   #40
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Re: Indonesia: 'green water navy'

Your "north" is the one saving your trade ships from indonesian pirates and i doubt it is in australias intrest to have indonesia a bit more powerful....
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Old August 12th, 2005   #41
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Re: Indonesia: 'green water navy'

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSS
It is a known among Malaysian fisherman to pay large sum of money to a `group with heavy weapons' when they board their fishing vessel or their vessel being pulled to our `thy neighbour land'. Not sure about this particular case though. It is a thin line of maritime border at the straits, we never to sure where we are.
It was stated by another forum member that some renegades within IN participate in piracy. If correct, IN will have to shake out those who are not conducting themselves lawfully before looking at purchasing new ships/boats. Funds for a more professional force would bear greater fruit than having the latest and greatest ship crewed with ill-paid, poorly led personnel. Perhaps increased benefits (pay rise?) will go towards eliminating those in the navy engaged in piracy and conditions that contribute towards it...
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Old August 12th, 2005   #42
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Re: Indonesia: 'green water navy'

It is not just that simple.

I suggest you read this before : http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/...e-9905-01.html

The Penguin Star had previously identified a couple of important Indonesians involved in piracy, one of whom was directly linked and the best friend and business associate of Indonesia's former President Soeharto. He a very wealthy Indonesian ethnic Chinese whose name is Liem Sioe Liong (a.k.a. Anthony Salim). He also happens to be former Indonesian President Soeharto's best friend. This same Chinese fellow, born on July 16, 1916, in Fujian province, China, uses old dilapidated ships to smuggle hundreds of illegal immigrants from his province of birth, after they pay at least US$30,000 per head to him, to Canada and the United States. It was one of his ships that was captured off-loading illegal Chinese immigrants off the coast of New York a few years back. A number of the illegal immigrants died in that incident.

Questions also abound in Indonesia about the arrest in early 1999 of a Singaporean businessman, nicknamed "Mister Wong", who has directed a number of pirate raids on ships in the straits of Malacca and Singapore. He is a triad boss, the whispers said in March 1999 ago. Now, though, it turns out that gangsters and navy officers had initially tried to blackmail Wong, who was broke. After a one-week bargain-and-wait game, Wong finally ended up in a naval detention centre in Batam. Was he not able to pay the ransom? Or was he caught in the web of an unusual Indonesian navy operation?

Theoretically, a ship stolen in this region could simply turn up in another part of the world, with a different name and flag, as far away as southern China. Since most of the pirates are run by ethnic Chinese businessmen with families ties to China from pre-communist days, for "fees" and "taxes" which end up in the pockets of China's ruling people, they are allowed to use China as a second base of operation for disappearing the ships and their cargoes. The crews just get tossed overboard without the benefit of walking a plank, usually with their throats cut, according to pirate crew members that accepted to answer a few quiet questions.

And it goes on and on...
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Old August 12th, 2005   #43
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Re: Indonesia: 'green water navy'

The problem of hijacked ships is not a new one and is aided by incomplete information systems in respect of individual ships details. Australia has good links through the APMOU and is involved in setting up the IOMOU to exchange information but some countries simply lack the expertes to identify such vessel when they come into their waters.

The IMO has attempted to resovle this issue by requiring the vessel IMO number be permantly affixed to the vessel (welded in) in a number of locations on the outside and inside of the vessel as well as requiring a continous synopsis record to be mantained on the vessel. The IMO number is the ships main identiy from the day it is built to the day it is scrapped and is quite difficult to obsure when it is welded inot the structure. It also has a checksum so poor fakes are also easily found out.

Smart criminals will find a way around this but it will make thier life a little more difficult.
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Old August 13th, 2005   #44
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Re: Indonesia: 'green water navy'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Francois
Just a thought.
Isn't it in Australia's interest to have an Indonesia a bit mor powerful to make a shield against the growing threat up North?
I mean, just like US used Canada and Europa as a pillow against soviets in the old days.

At present the cooperation Australia needs to have with Indonesia is on terrorism issues, which is in the interest of both Governments.

Indonesia needs to control rogue elements and limit corruption, the world has changed and corruption is now an issue of national security as is some criminal activities, it is a big ask for any Indonesian Government to achieve this type of outcome.

In my opinion with such rogue elements present I would have thought twice about aid relief operations like the Tsunami relief operation.

I think the TNI have a major attitude problem and need to have a realistic look at their place in the food chain in the region.

Just my opinion.

Last edited by Stryker001; August 13th, 2005 at 09:24 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old October 22nd, 2005   #45
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Indonesia thinking to buy Russian corvette Tiger

Russia named first potential customers of the corvette Tiger, project 20282
09.08.2005 17:00

The countries mentioned after IMDS-2005 were India, China, Vietnam, Iran, Indonesia, Kuwait, Allergies, Egypt and other. Export ship has few differences from the Russian version. It has basically the same construction and the architecture of the systems. The peculiarity of the ship is that it is built on a module system. This is totally new principle in the Russian shipbuilding which allows for fast and easy repair / upgrade. The designer CMKB Almaz suggests different options of the ship. Instead of the Russian 100mm AK-190M it is possible to fit Otto-Melara 76mm. The main ship is to be fitted with four Russian diesels. Two works at cruise speed, two more are switched to gain the max speed of 26-28 knots. Two pair of diesels instead of diesel-turbine give 1.5 times less fuel consumption. German MTU diesels will be offered as an option. However, Zarya-Mashproject gas turbines will also be fitted on some ships. 20380(2) will be able to carry 12 tons helicopter. The options considered are Ka- 27, 28, 31. However, Kamov is working on a lighter, 5-6 tons multi role option. Main missiles used are X-35E of Uran-E. However, Almaz thinks it is possible to fit heavier Yahont. In this case the ship will need also the heavier helicopter. UOMZ will provide its aviation tested optronics systems

source ; http://shipbuilding.ru/eng/news/2005/08/09/tiger/
.................................................. .................................................. ............................
Indonesian Chief of Navy, yesterday reported go to Russia to discuss the buying.If we really buy this ship, we will get the Yakhont for her main missiles, there were already an agreement about the missile.
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