Go Back   Defense Technology & Military Forum > Global Defense & Military > Navy & Maritime
Forgot Password? Join Us! Its's free!

Defense News
Land, Air & Naval Forces






Military Photos
Latest Military Pictures

ExPB14_JAS-39_Gripen.jpg

ExPB14_Mirage2000.jpg

6_EXPB14_20140729_088_3_RSAF_F16s.jpg

5_EXPB14_20140729_143_3_RSAF_F-15SGs.jpg
Defense Reports
Aerospace & Defence







Recent Photos - DefenceTalk Military Gallery





Indian Navy Discussions and Updates

This is a discussion on Indian Navy Discussions and Updates within the Navy & Maritime forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Originally Posted by funtz A carrier by itself is not a big advantage, it needs to be resupplied, it needs ...


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 4 votes, 4.00 average.
Old September 25th, 2010   #376
Senior Member
Brigadier General
No Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Reading
Posts: 1,602
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by funtz View Post
A carrier by itself is not a big advantage, it needs to be resupplied, it needs the planes, the pilots, the crews, and other war ships supporting it.

The Indian Navy has a certain plan for its carriers, three carriers, each fleet (the eastern fleet and the western fleet) getting a carrier battle group, now the Vikramadatya(ex-admiral Gorshkov) was to make sure that the carrier tradition did not go away for the 6-10 years it took to induct INS Vikrant (the indigenous aircraft carrier under construction with Cochin shipyard Limited) into service. That plan did not work and now the navy had to refurbish the old girl to keep her in service till the first carrier (from the Russian or the India shipyard) is commissioned into the navy.

The Russian carrier is going to be inducted into service around 2012-2015(hopefully), INS Vikrant(the first indigenous aircraft carrier) is going to be inducted into servicussu old Re around 2014-2017), and there is another aircraft carrier planned in the 2014-2022 time frame depending on when the first indigenous aircraft carrier is going to be commissioned into the Navy, now after that if all else is fine and the GoI gives the funding there is a hope (and a plan) to commission a third Indigenously built aircraft carrier into service, which i assume will replace the INS Vikramaditya and i hope take its name and place as the flagship, as the name sounds really good and intellectual for people who speak/understand Hindi.

These carriers will require planes, trained crew, the pilots, and other vessels to support them (which will require crews to man them), a whole support infrastructure.

Now all this has been planned and approved by the Government of India, which is careful with its money, the navy will not get anything outside this structure, so whenever there is a talk of a Kitty Halk, or a QE class vessel, people should remember the Indian Navy can not afford or accept (even for free) a aircraft carrier outside of this program.
Agreed, I was just saying it was not far fetched. It would certainly be better value than that the old Russian carrier, and probably cheaper, but then the money has been spent.
1805 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 25th, 2010   #377
Super Moderator
General
swerve's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire
Posts: 5,514
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1805 View Post
I agree with all you say, apart from that it's so far fetched. It might not happen, but its not so unlikely.
I was referring to the story that the carrier has already been offered to India. That isn't possible.

It is possible that enquiries have been made about how India might respond to an offer, & although it would be a stupid thing to do, it is possible that a British government might try to sell off one of the carriers after October 20th, but it is not possible for either BAe or the current government to have made an offer recently, as claimed.
swerve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 25th, 2010   #378
Senior Member
Brigadier General
No Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Reading
Posts: 1,602
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by swerve View Post
I was referring to the story that the carrier has already been offered to India. That isn't possible.

It is possible that enquiries have been made about how India might respond to an offer, & although it would be a stupid thing to do, it is possible that a British government might try to sell off one of the carriers after October 20th, but it is not possible for either BAe or the current government to have made an offer recently, as claimed.
I misunderstood you, yes unlikely an offer could have been made.
1805 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 28th, 2010
longfree
This message has been deleted by Aussie Digger.
Old September 28th, 2010   #379
Banned Member
Corporal
No Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 111
Threads:
The new ship, which is being built indigenously by India, is not going to be called the I N S Vikrant. That was the name of India's much loved first Aircraft Carrier, purchased from Great Britain.
I wonder what role the Indian Navy top brass has, for the Aircraft Carriers. I don't know, whether China has any Aircraft Carrier's, seriously. I saw the news about the new submarine class, of the Royal British Navy. Such a vessel, could make the Aircraft Carrier very vulnerable. In my opinion, perhaps the United States' nuclear powered carriers, have outlived their role. I can only see them as being operable in a war environment, heavily defended. This is because, normally, the aircraft on Aircraft Carriers, are not meant for anti submarine operations. The Aircraft Carrier will also have to be screened from missiles. A combined attack on Aircraft Carriers by submarines, and Cruise Missiles will make the Aircraft Carrier a goner. Also, how can the fighter aircraft of the U S Navy fight a dedicated Air Force far away from U S shores? An Aircraft Carrier can be used in a defensive role, against the enemy, as a means of secondary resort.
A.Mookerjee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29th, 2010   #380
Defense Enthusiast
Lieutenant
funtz's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chamoli
Posts: 634
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Mookerjee View Post
The new ship, which is being built indigenously by India, is not going to be called the I N S Vikrant. That was the name of India's much loved first Aircraft Carrier, purchased from Great Britain.

I wonder what role the Indian Navy top brass has, for the Aircraft Carriers. I don't know, whether China has any Aircraft Carrier's, seriously. I saw the news about the new submarine class, of the Royal British Navy. Such a vessel, could make the Aircraft Carrier very vulnerable.

In my opinion, perhaps the United States' nuclear powered carriers, have outlived their role. I can only see them as being operable in a war environment, heavily defended. This is because, normally, the aircraft on Aircraft Carriers, are not meant for anti submarine operations. The Aircraft Carrier will also have to be screened from missiles. A combined attack on Aircraft Carriers by submarines, and Cruise Missiles will make the Aircraft Carrier a goner.

Also, how can the fighter aircraft of the U S Navy fight a dedicated Air Force far away from U S shores? An Aircraft Carrier can be used in a defensive role, against the enemy, as a means of secondary resort.
Many news articles and analysts have started referring to the ship as the INS Vikrant.

PLAN is in the process of completing the construction on a abandoned Soviet aircraft carrier which was to be named Varyag.

Some thoughts about the aircraft carrier from an ex-top brass:
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/H...0s/Prakash.pdf

A vessel that makes an aircraft carrier vulnerable makes the entire surface naval vessels vulnerable.

I think the F-35 changes a lot of the vulnerabilities that their current 4th generation planes face in fighting a dedicated Air Force and air defence far away from the US shores, along with multiple weapon systems that have been developed to enter the war before an aircraft carrier.
funtz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 6th, 2010   #381
New Member
Private
Corsair96's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 36
Threads:
Ok this is going to sound incredibly stupid but I dont really care. Alright here goes nothing, how bout an aircraft carrying submarine? Kind of like the japanese had with their I-400 class except bigger. I know your going to say that their would be no way to achieve the aircraft but it would take away such a heavy need for so many defenses for modern aircraft carriers. Imagine, the submarine gets within range and launches aircraft. I know this role might be of no use from cruise missiles but its just an idea.

The battleship was thought to be the main weapon of naval warfare until it got tested in battle, maybe the carriers turn has come to fall out of favor?

[Mod Edit: Read the Forum Rules before posting again. You have been warned.]

Last edited by OPSSG; October 7th, 2010 at 04:55 AM.
Corsair96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 6th, 2010   #382
Super Moderator
General
swerve's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire
Posts: 5,514
Threads:
Subs with cruise missiles do everything aircraft-carrying subs could do except recce. That could be achieved with expendable UAVs, if you really think it's needed.
swerve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 6th, 2010
xporttrading
This message has been deleted by AegisFC. Reason: SPAM
Old October 7th, 2010
Corsair96
This message has been deleted by OPSSG. Reason: One-liners are a violation of forum rules
Old January 31st, 2011   #383
Defense Professional / Analyst
Lieutenant Colonel
aussienscale's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Northern Rivers, NSW
Posts: 1,214
Threads:
Indian RFI F35B & C

Reports today that the Indian Navy has made an RFI for the F35B & C, would be interested in opinions on whether this is a serious option for the Indian Navy and their future carriers or is this a potential ploy for a better deal from Russia ? Link for the article I found, I will also try to find some more difinative reports
Washington Opens for Indian Request for F-35 - Defense-Update

Just to ad India has made RFI's in the past with not much chance of Washington approval, this seems to be changing in view of recenct discussions and visits

Last edited by aussienscale; January 31st, 2011 at 03:57 AM. Reason: Clarifying point
aussienscale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 31st, 2011   #384
Defense Enthusiast
Captain
dragonfire's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 716
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by aussienscale View Post
Reports today that the Indian Navy has made an RFI for the F35B & C, would be interested in opinions on whether this is a serious option for the Indian Navy and their future carriers or is this a potential ploy for a better deal from Russia ? Link for the article I found, I will also try to find some more difinative reports
Washington Opens for Indian Request for F-35 - Defense-Update

Just to ad India has made RFI's in the past with not much chance of Washington approval, this seems to be changing in view of recenct discussions and visits
The challenge in acquiring this system is that IN has already placed an order for 45 Mig-29Ks, 29 for the INS Vikrant and 16 for the INS Vikramaditya. Then there is the commitment from the IN for the Naval Tejas LCA. So even if we talk about the F-35 getting acquired for the IN it would be limited for the future (planned) INS Vishal. Would it be wise to operate only 1 aircraft carrier with the F-35 or not would be the question.

However i would agree with you that the F-35 is getting feelers from India and LM is keen on getting India on-board as a client for its flagship fighter.
dragonfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 31st, 2011   #385
Defense Enthusiast
Lieutenant
T.C.P da Devil's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Dhaka,Bangladesh
Posts: 615
Threads:
The IN could always keep the Mig-29K as a sore based fighter and the F-35 as carrier based or the other way around. Or maybe they would decide to take which fighter onboard depending on the mission.
T.C.P da Devil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 31st, 2011   #386
Defense Enthusiast
Chief Warrant Officer
No Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 433
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1805 View Post
Agreed, I was just saying it was not far fetched. It would certainly be better value than that the old Russian carrier, and probably cheaper, but then the money has been spent.
One of the reasons why the Russian carrier isn't great value for money is due to Russian corruption, I know a supplier of alarm systems for this vessel, they quoted X and were asked by the yard purchaser to submit a bid for twice the value, this equipment was then sold to a private individual who then resold the equipment to the yard at the twice inflated price.

Deals like this have massively inflated the build price. If I was the Indians I'd have cancelled this contract years ago. It's been a gravey train for upper management at the yard.
KiwiRob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 1st, 2011   #387
Defense Enthusiast
Captain
dragonfire's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 716
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by T.C.P da Devil View Post
The IN could always keep the Mig-29K as a sore based fighter and the F-35 as carrier based or the other way around. Or maybe they would decide to take which fighter onboard depending on the mission.
What is the value-add that an IN shore based fighter squadron have over what the IAF has ?

Apart from providing platform training not much. IAF already has Jaguars and the Su-30MKIs for the maritime role. Besides the orders for the Mig-29Ks were placed specifically for the carriers.

The question of platform (F-35C) compatibility with that of the carriers INS Vikrant and INS Vikramaditya is also there.
dragonfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 1st, 2011   #388
Defense Enthusiast
Sergeant
kay_man's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 287
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonfire View Post

The question of platform (F-35C) compatibility with that of the carriers INS Vikrant and INS Vikramaditya is also there.
India's current and near future carriers have angled deck.
F-35 like the harrier will be able to use angled flight deck, so compatibility will not be such a large problem.
the problem as mentioned in the recent news report is that India does not want to operate multiple FGFAs.
There is the PAK-FA and also the indigenous MCA
kay_man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 1st, 2011   #389
Defense Professional / Analyst
Lieutenant Colonel
aussienscale's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Northern Rivers, NSW
Posts: 1,214
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kay_man View Post
India's current and near future carriers have angled deck.
F-35 like the harrier will be able to use angled flight deck, so compatibility will not be such a large problem.
the problem as mentioned in the recent news report is that India does not want to operate multiple FGFAs.
There is the PAK-FA and also the indigenous MCA
All academic now judging by this article
India Rejects US F-35 JSF Offer | Air Force News at DefenseTalk
aussienscale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th, 2011   #390
Banned Member
Corporal
No Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 111
Threads:
It's not the quality of aircraft that the U S Fleet's Aircraft Carrier's fly, but the quantity, which is important. In any skirmish with an air force of a strong nation, the carrier borne fighters of the U S Fleet, will be out-numbered. Most importantly, this will make the Aircraft Carrier's vulnerable to enemy air attack. If we take the example of 'The Battle of Midway', then I do not believe, that the Japanese combat fleet could have escaped the inevitable, but if she had kept the fighters of two aircraft carriers in reserve. The Japanese Fleet could have recce-ed and attacked with two aircraft carriers, and then waited for the American attack, and defended with the other two. Four carriers were lost, I presume, of the Japanese navy.
Perhaps, the F-35's have an overwhelming advantage, in combat, but I would be careful about the U S Fleet Carriers, against a combined Naval, and air attack.
A.Mookerjee is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:50 PM.