This is a discussion on Indian Navy - 3 Carriers or more within the Navy & Maritime forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; India has plans for 3 carriers, there have been suggestions that India should have 4 carriers to effectively have 3 ...
India has plans for 3 carriers, there have been suggestions that India should have 4 carriers to effectively have 3 active carrier groups. I suggest India acquire a retired CVG from US either the USS John F Kennedy which was retired in 2007 or perhaps the USS Kitty Hawk which is scheduled to retire end of this month.
India has plans for 3 carriers, there have been suggestions that India should have 4 carriers to effectively have 3 active carrier groups. I suggest India acquire a retired CVG from US either the USS John F Kennedy which was retired in 2007 or perhaps the USS Kitty Hawk which is scheduled to retire end of this month.
You would purchase a 40 year old aircraft carrier for India?
John F Kennedy was Commissioned on the 7 Sep 1968.Its over 41 years old
USS Kitty Hawk was commissioned in 1961(i think?).Its older than 41 years.
"From 1987 to 1991 Kitty Hawk was overhauled for $785 million under the Service Life Extension Program (SLEP) "Thats $785 million in 1991 dollars,with skilled labour who know Aircraft carriers.I wonder if these ships can even be overhalled?And would it be worth it,in my opinion NO!
India has plans for 3 carriers, there have been suggestions that India should have 4 carriers to effectively have 3 active carrier groups. I suggest India acquire a retired CVG from US either the USS John F Kennedy which was retired in 2007 or perhaps the USS Kitty Hawk which is scheduled to retire end of this month.
Those ships are shagged. You'd be mad to buy into them. India should have learnt her lessons about buying second hand major capital kit already.... Esp Kitty hawk which has done considerable miles, missions and has spent a large portion of her life operating in the worst locale of all as far as "friendly" blue water sea states is concerned.
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Those ships are shagged. You'd be mad to buy into them. India should have learnt her lessons about buying second hand major capital kit already.... Esp Kitty hawk which has done considerable miles, missions and has spent a large portion of her life operating in the worst locale of all as far as "friendly" blue water sea states is concerned.
Sure these ships have spent tons of time already serving and thts why they have been retired, however i dont recall either of them being involved in any major accidents etc. China bought 3 diff classes of hulls just to study them - without even having a formaly announced CVG development program. Both Indian carriers were leagcy carriers having spent tons of time already in service with other navies. Even the Gorshkov is old. The only brand new carrier IN will get is when it going to operationalize its first small IAC. A Kitty hawk could give IN the platform to study for (a) to study a big/supercarrier - also a nuc-powered carrier (b) to make a platform to study and train personnel for CATOBAR ops
Sure these ships have spent tons of time already serving and thts why they have been retired, however i dont recall either of them being involved in any major accidents etc. China bought 3 diff classes of hulls just to study them - without even having a formaly announced CVG development program. Both Indian carriers were leagcy carriers having spent tons of time already in service with other navies. Even the Gorshkov is old. The only brand new carrier IN will get is when it going to operationalize its first small IAC. A Kitty hawk could give IN the platform to study for (a) to study a big/supercarrier - also a nuc-powered carrier (b) to make a platform to study and train personnel for CATOBAR ops
If India wishes to purchase the USS Kitty Hawk to 'study' it, I think the US would cheerfully sell her, and then proceed to laugh all the way to the bank as the saying goes...
While the vessel might not have been involved in any major accidents, she is, at least in parts, over 50 years old, having been initially laid down in 1956. With that kind of timeframe, the design is not longer current in terms of carrier construction, damage control, etc. Additionally, IMO the US would remove the most interesting and up to date systems (like radars, electronics, computers, ESM, etc) and likely the catapult system as well.
Also, the design is a conventional, as opposed to nuclear-powered carrier. As such, it would give India no additional expertise or knowledge in terms of designing a nuclear-powered vessel of their own.
If the sale were done, the likely outcome would be that India would have a large, floating hulk to would likely be too expensive to modify and re-commission, nevermind keep operational.
-Cheers
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Also, the design is a conventional, as opposed to nuclear-powered carrier. As such, it would give India no additional expertise or knowledge in terms of designing a nuclear-powered vessel of their own.
Yeah i was assuming the kitty hawk class was nuc-powered but no it was enterprise which was the first one - oops
I still think we need one more carrier to be operational by 2020 (4 total in nos)
And we are already building an IAC and post which planning to build one more IAC in the Cochin Shipyard and the Mazgon Docks is already busy with the Project 15B destroyers the Project 17A frigates and the Project28A corvettes as well as the scorpene subs, besides which both the Garden Reach as well as the Goa Shipyards are ill equipped to build a big carrier and the ATVs are being built in Vishakapattanam
So simply out India is already running on capacity with its domestic shipbuilding capabilitites so if we want a 4th carrier we have to look outwards for the same, Russia is busy planning its own needs all efforts would be in tht direction, so new carriers also look hard to get from external sources - so only logical choice would be to buy a used carrier and currently the only carriers looked like kitty hawk and kennedy - hence my suggestions albeit with certain wrong expectations
Yeah i was assuming the kitty hawk class was nuc-powered but no it was enterprise which was the first one - oops
I still think we need one more carrier to be operational by 2020 (4 total in nos)
And we are already building an IAC and post which planning to build one more IAC in the Cochin Shipyard and the Mazgon Docks is already busy with the Project 15B destroyers the Project 17A frigates and the Project28A corvettes as well as the scorpene subs, besides which both the Garden Reach as well as the Goa Shipyards are ill equipped to build a big carrier and the ATVs are being built in Vishakapattanam
So simply out India is already running on capacity with its domestic shipbuilding capabilitites so if we want a 4th carrier we have to look outwards for the same, Russia is busy planning its own needs all efforts would be in tht direction, so new carriers also look hard to get from external sources - so only logical choice would be to buy a used carrier and currently the only carriers looked like kitty hawk and kennedy - hence my suggestions albeit with certain wrong expectations
Honestly, I am less certain that having 4 carriers by 2020 makes sense for India. While yes, having 4 in total should mean that 3 are available for ops at any one time, it also means that there is an increased need for suitable escort vessels. Does, or rather will, India have sufficient resources to provide for 3 separate CBGs operating simultaneously, by 2020? If not, then IMO it makes more sense to stick with having 3, which should allow two operational at any one time, and then if there is sufficient need (and resources) grow the fleet to include a 4th carrier and third CBG.
However, if it is felt that a 4th carrier does indeed need to be built/purchased, then perhaps India should talk to France and/or the UK, as they are looking to commission carriers roughly within that time frame. OTOH, having EU, Russian and Indian-sourced CVs could make maintenance and upkeep (and interoperability) problematic.
-Cheers
________________
"I'm doing the same thing I do every night, Pinky..." comment from one lab mouse to another.
However, if it is felt that a 4th carrier does indeed need to be built/purchased, then perhaps India should talk to France and/or the UK, as they are looking to commission carriers roughly within that time frame.
Since the UK is ordered the construction of the new class -Queen Elizabeth class carriers and French will be busy building their new carrier (dont know class or name but read somewhere it would be a conventional powered unlike the Chrles De Gaulle) or have they put it on backburner. I was assuming that since Italy, Spain, Russia, UK, France, US and even China would be making their own carriers we wouldnt be able to order from them as such, besides a new carrier would be in the range of 5 + Billion dollars - Varyag was acquired by China for some 20 million or its cost came (including tugging + port duties etc) to only 50 Million. So it would have made some sense econmically to buy a recently de-commisioned carrier and to refit - India is good at tht as such, the HMS Hermes was acquired after 28 yrs of service and i think we will use it till atleast 2015 which would mean 28 yrs service as an India carrier (INS Viraat) while we used INS Vikrant for 36 yrs wheras she was laid down a good 18 yrs prior to commisioning as an Indian Navy vessel
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I don't know what the Russian carrier program will look like given the current financial crisis, so those shipbuilding facilities may end up unoccupied after all.
I don't know what the Russian carrier program will look like given the current financial crisis, so those shipbuilding facilities may end up unoccupied after all.
It was during this recent crisis tht a go-ahead was given for 3 carriers by Prime Minister Putin, given tht funds are getting allocated for the same internaly i doubt if russian will go on the backfoot reg carrier developement, even if this goes on a back foot then its still advantage India as hopefully any skilled professionals working on the gorshkov might not be pulled for the carrier projects as such snigger snigger
Since the UK is ordered the construction of the new class -Queen Elizabeth class carriers and French will be busy building their new carrier (dont know class or name but read somewhere it would be a conventional powered unlike the Chrles De Gaulle) or have they put it on backburner. I was assuming that since Italy, Spain, Russia, UK, France, US and even China would be making their own carriers we wouldnt be able to order from them as such, besides a new carrier would be in the range of 5 + Billion dollars
Queen Elizabeth & Prince of Wales are budgeted at £1.9 billion each, i.e. $3 billion.
France has postponed a decision on a new carrier.
Spain is not building any new carriers at the moment. It is building an LHD with secondary STOVL aircraft capability.
Italy is not buiding any carriers. It recently built one (Cavour - 27000 tons), but she is now in service. Fincantieri (which is providing design consultancy for the IAC) would probably love to build a new carrier for India, & could provide a scaled-up Cavour with arrestor gear quite easily, & for a lot less than $5 billion. It would look just like the IAC.
Cavour cost 1.4 billion Euros, including design, & air defence (Aster 15) & command suites. A larger but more austere ship could probably be built for little more.
Queen Elizabeth & Prince of Wales are budgeted at £1.9 billion each, i.e. $3 billion.
France has postponed a decision on a new carrier.
Spain is not building any new carriers at the moment. It is building an LHD with secondary STOVL aircraft capability.
Italy is not buiding any carriers. It recently built one (Cavour - 27000 tons), but she is now in service. Fincantieri (which is providing design consultancy for the IAC) would probably love to build a new carrier for India, & could provide a scaled-up Cavour with arrestor gear quite easily, & for a lot less than $5 billion. It would look just like the IAC.
Cavour cost 1.4 billion Euros, including design, & air defence (Aster 15) & command suites. A larger but more austere ship could probably be built for little more.
Just to Nitpick a bit, ignoring JCI (which must be just about finished) Spain is currently building another pair of those LHD's for the RAN.
Italy is not buiding any carriers. It recently built one (Cavour - 27000 tons), but she is now in service. Fincantieri (which is providing design consultancy for the IAC) would probably love to build a new carrier for India, & could provide a scaled-up Cavour with arrestor gear quite easily, & for a lot less than $5 billion. It would look just like the IAC.
Cavour cost 1.4 billion Euros, including design, & air defence (Aster 15) & command suites. A larger but more austere ship could probably be built for little more.
That is magnificent - if India wanted to order a new carrier the Italians could build it for them and the existing IAC design is primarily italian as such (India outsources a lot of design work to Italians as such, cars too) and if its a bigger version of the Cavour then it would still have the ski jump - which is also in the IACs as well as in the Gorshkov, it could be in the same class as in the second IAC being planned with 60-70 ton displacement only if i were the MODefense
India has plans for 3 carriers, there have been suggestions that India should have 4 carriers to effectively have 3 active carrier groups. I suggest India acquire a retired CVG from US either the USS John F Kennedy which was retired in 2007 or perhaps the USS Kitty Hawk which is scheduled to retire end of this month.
The Kennedy was in bad shape since her SLEP was canceled in the 90's. She failed numerous inspections and in her last 5 or so years of service was barely sea worthy. Her flight deck was completely decertified to launch or recover aircraft. IF the US were to sell a carrier (and they won't) it wouldn't be the Kennedy.
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If India wishes to purchase the USS Kitty Hawk to 'study' it, I think the US would cheerfully sell her, and then proceed to laugh all the way to the bank as the saying goes...
Won't happen. There are too many internal design similarities between it and the Nimitz class. It is one of the reasons given why they didn't want to turn any of the already decommed super carriers into museums and also why the America SINKEX was so secret.
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PA2 (Porte-Avions 2) is the best option , india should buy the PA2 (Porte-Avions 2) aircraft-carrier from france off the shelf
they will complement the scorpene SSks very well
as far as i know they are most likely to be armed with two 8 cell SYLVER launchers carrying the MBDA Aster 15 surface to air missiles & Giat 20F2 20 mm cannons
a 70,000 tonne displacement carrier with 20 rafales on board will pack quite a punch
snigger snigger 
Richelieu 
