France launches design for a second Aircraft Carrier

Elite Brain

New Member
(Source: French Ministry of Defence; dated Jan. 24, web-posted Jan. 25, 2005)

PARIS --- The Minister of Defence, Mrs. Michèle Alliot-Marie, has launched the design phase for the French Navy’s second aircraft carrier.

This step marks the end of the program’s preparatory phases, during which the aircraft carrier’s main technical and operational characteristics were defined. They also validated the French President’s decision to opt for conventional, rather than nuclear, propulsion for the new ship.

Teams from the Ministry of Defence and participating manufacturers will now undertake the ship’s detailed design, which will lead to the beginning of the production phase, presently scheduled for 2006.

A contract for the design work, worth approximately 100 million euros, will be awarded by the defence procurement agency, DGA, to DCN and Thales Naval France, which will act as joint prime contractors. Other major manufacturers involved in the naval sector, such as Alsthom-Chantiers de l’Atlantique and EADS, will also participate in the design phase.

In line with the strategic guidelines decided during the French-British summit meeting of November 2004, the design phase will include risk reduction and cooperative opportunity studies so as to determine, by the summer of 2005, the feasibility and the scope of cooperation between the French and British aircraft carrier programs.

The decision to equip the French navy with a second aircraft carrier was included in the multi-year defence planning law for 2003-2008. The new ship is to be commissioned in 2014, in time to ensure the French Navy’s uninterrupted naval air capabilities when the current aircraft carrier, the nuclear-powered “Charles de Gaulle,” will become unavailable due to its scheduled refuelling and refit.
 
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Aussie Digger

Guest
I guess this also means France will be purchasing More Rafale M's eh? Well Dassault should be happy...
 

highsea

New Member
I wonder why they chose conventional power over nuclear? This kind of surprises me, considering the power requirements for a carrier. It's not like they don't have the capability to build a CVN.
 
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Aussie Digger

Guest
Cause the French and the British are combining their projects to build new Carriers and the Brits want conventionally powered Carriers? They'll manage to cut overall costs by buliding 3 carriers under a single program... Plus the French already operate a Nuclear Powered Carrier, and I'm sure they are well aware of the power needs for their carrier. They must be convinced a Conventional powered Carrier is sufficient...
 

highsea

New Member
Aussie Digger said:
Cause the French and the British are combining their projects to build new Carriers and the Brits want conventionally powered Carriers? They'll manage to cut overall costs by buliding 3 carriers under a single program...
Thanks AD, I didn't know the Brits were building two ships in the project. I thought it was maybe it had something to do with French politics...
They also validated the French President’s decision to opt for conventional, rather than nuclear, propulsion for the new ship.
 

Musashi_kenshin

Well-Known Member
Aussie Digger said:
Cause the French and the British are combining their projects to build new Carriers and the Brits want conventionally powered Carriers? They'll manage to cut overall costs by buliding 3 carriers under a single program
As far as I know, that isn't the official line. The French may use similar plans but so far, only Chirac has proposed the project be mutual. The MoD hasn't said anything about that - and I doubt they will want to get into the mess of having to co-operate with another government, after the Horizon debacle.

Plus the French may want a different design in the end.

Conventional is the way to go. The [size=-1]Charles de Gaulle[/size] was a real black-pit of a project. Nuclear is completely unnecessary.
 

Musashi_kenshin

Well-Known Member
ivan..the.great said:
im curious where france thinks it is necessary to project the force of two aircraft carriers.
It isn't a question of needing two aircraft carriers - more to do with having one available at all, if the other's being refitted.
 

scg_af

New Member
"Thales" french aircraft carrier?

i read this news article about France developing a new aircraft carrier which is based on the Thales design. (idunno what that is anyway)


i know nothing about this mystery aircraft carrier except that they will probably launch it in 2015. any info will be apreciated. thanx:)
 

adsH

New Member
Re: "Thales" french aircraft carrier?

There are two Aircraft Carrier Classes being built One is the french Thales Project the Other is BAE systems And Thales British CVF Project. Here is the french Project details

CHARLES DE GAULLE NUCLEAR POWERED AIRCRAFT CARRIER, FRANCE

The 38,000t, nuclear-powered aircraft carrier Charles De Gaulle was constructed at the DCN Brest naval shipyard in Brittany. The ship was launched in May 1994 and commissioned in September 2000, following sea trials which began in January 1999. As a result of trials the landing deck has been lengthened by 4.4m to enable the E-2C to land and clear the deck quickly. The carrier was due to enter service in December 2000, but, following the breakage of a propeller blade during long-distance trials, this was delayed to April 2001. In June 2001, the carrier took part in exercises in the Mediterranean and in December 2001 left to take part in Operation Enduring Freedom where it was stationed in the Arabian Gulf. It returned to its home port of Toulon in July 2002. Super Etendard and Hawkeye E-2C aircraft carried out a number of sorties but the ship's F1 standard Rafale M fighters did not take part in operations, although they were included in exercises with the US Navy.

The French Navy plans to build a second carrier to enter service around 2014, when the Charles de Gaulle is scheduled for refueling and refit. The new carrier will not be the same class as the Charles de Gaulle; it will be a conventionally-powered carrier. It will be built by a joint venture company to be set up by DCN and Thales Naval France. The design phase for the carrier programme (PA2) was launched in January 2005 and the production phase is scheduled to begin in 2006. Discussions have been held between the French and UK governments on the possibility of a joint development with the UK's CVF carrier project, which Thales UK is designing.

AIRCRAFT

The ship can operate a fleet of up to 40 aircraft: Rafale M (range 3,340km), Super Etendard (range 1,682km) and three E-2C Hawkeye airborne early warning aircraft. The ship will also support the AS 565 Panther or NH 90 helicopter.

The main deck consists of a main runway angled at 8.5° to the ship's axis and an aircraft launch area forward of the island. These are each equipped with a USN Type C13 catapult, capable of launching one aircraft per minute. The runway is 195m long and the whole deck measures 260 x 64m. The carrier is fitted with the EADS Systems & Defence Electronics DALAS laser landing aid.

SATRAP COMPUTERISED STABILISATION SYSTEM

The carrier is fitted with the SATRAP computerised, integrated stabilisation system designed to maintain stabilisation to within 0.5° of horizontal, allowing aircraft to be operated up to Sea State 5/6. As well as the carrier's two pairs of active stabilising fins and twin rudders, the system has two computer-controlled compensation units which consist of two rail tracks for trains carrying 22t of deadweight. These tracks run transversely below the flight deck. This system is designed to compensate for wind and heel and control roll, yaw and surge.

COMBAT MANAGEMENT SYSTEMS

The ship's weapons are managed by a Senit Combat Management System, which has the capacity to track up to 2,000 targets. The weapon control system consists of two Vigy 105 optronic directors supplied by Sagem. The ship also has two Sagem Vampir search and track systems.

In February 2004, Thales was awarded a contract for a new command and control system for the French Navy. The new system, called SIC 21, will be fitted on the Charles de Gaulle as well as other vessels and shore locations and will allow the vessel to access national or coalition command networks.

SURFACE-TO-AIR MISSILES

The SAAM (Surface Anti-Air Missile) system, developed by Eurosam (set up by MBDA and Thales), provides defence against hostile aircraft and anti-ship missiles. The system uses the Aster 15 surface-to-air missile and entered operational service in November 2002, with the first firing of the missile from the Charles de Gaulle. The Aster missile has a 13kg warhead and a range of 30km. The missile's guidance is inertial with data uplink and active radar terminal homing. For increased manoeuvrability in the terminal phase, the missile uses a 'PIF-PAF' direct thrust control system with gas jets. Two eight-cell Sylver vertical launch systems are installed on the starboard side forward of the bridge and two on the port side aft of the bridge. The system uses the Thales (formerlyThomson-CSF) Arabel radar, which is a multi-function three-dimensional radar with a range of 70km for a target area of 2m².

The ship has two six-cell Sadral launching systems for the MBDA (formerly Matra BAe Dynamics) Mistral anti-aircraft and anti-missile missile. Mistral has an infra-red seeker and a range of 4km.

GIAT 20F2 20MM GUNS

The ship is equipped with eight Giat 20F2 20mm guns, which fire 0.25kg shells at 720 rounds/min to a range of up to 8km.

COUNTERMEASURES

Four EADS Systems & Defence Electronics Sagaie 10-barrel trainable decoy launchers are installed. The system fires chaff to 8km and infra-red flares to a range of 3km. Two Thales ARBB 33 jammers, mature versions of the Salamandre, are installed to jam I-, H- and J- band radar signals. Electronic support measures include the Thales ARBR 21 radar warner. The aircraft carrier will also be fitted with a SLAT anti-torpedo system being developed by Euroslat, a consortium consisting of WASS (Whitehead Alenia Sistemi Subaqua), DCN and Thales Underwater Systems (formerly Thomson Marconi Sonar).

RADAR SENSOR SUITE

The suite of radar sensors installed on the carrier are: Thales DRBJ 11B three dimensional long range air search radar operating in the E- to F- bands; Thales DRBV 26D Jupiter medium/long range air search radar operating at D-band; Thales DRBV 15C Sea Tiger Mark 2 air and surface search radar operating at E- and F-bands; two Thales (formerly Racal) Model 1229 navigation radars operating at I-band; and the Thales Arabel fire control radar operating at I-to J-band.

PROPULSION AND POWER PLANT

The Charles De Gaulle is equipped with two nuclear pressure water reactors, PWR Type K15, which provide a speed of 27 knots. The 61MW turbines are from Alsthom. The propulsion system has the capacity to provide five years continuous operation at 25 knots before refuelling. http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/gaulle/





CVF - ROYAL NAVY FUTURE AIRCRAFT CARRIER, UNITED KINGDOM

The new UK CVF Royal Navy aircraft carriers, HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales, are expected to enter service in 2012 and 2015.

The design continues to evolve but CVF is expected to displace 55,000t to 65,000t, a size between the USA's 100,000t Nimitz class and France's 43,000t Charles de Gaulle class aircraft carriers, and three times larger than the 20,000t UK Invincible class carriers.

The carrier will have a maximum speed of 25 knots. At 15 knots the range is 10,000 nautical miles and the ship carries food, fuel and stores for an endurance of seven days between replenishments.

The steel cutting for the first of class ship will be in 2006 and assembly will begin in 2009 at the Rosyth shipyard. Sea trials will begin in 2010 for commissioning in 2011. The Royal Navy will undertake the first of class operational sea trials prior to the in service date of October 2012. The second of class CVF-02 has an in service date of October 2015.

Each ship will have a complement of typically 1,200, including 600 air crew.

CVF AIRCRAFT CARRIER PROGRAMME

The CVF Integrated Project Team is managing the procurement programme on behalf of the Ministry of Defence Procurement Executive.

In January 2003 the Ministry of Defence announced that the preferred prime contractor for the UK Future Aircraft Carrier is BAE Systems with Thales UK as the key supplier. The industrial partnership between BAE Systems and Thales UK is known as the Future Carrier Alliance. In February 2005, Kellogg, Brown & Root UK (KBR) was appointed as preferred "Physical Integrator" for the project and is responsible for developing the optimum manufacturing strategy. The carriers will be constructed at a number of different yards with a final integration site.

The Alliance is scheduled to submit a fully costed bid for the demonstration and manufacturing phase of the program by the end of the Assessment Phase in 2005, prior to a Main Gate decision and subsequent contract award by the Ministry of Defence.

The major contractors include BAE Systems - prime contractor; Thales Naval Ltd - key supplier; Alenia Marconi Systems - C4IS; BMT Defence Systems - naval architecture; EDS - systems integration, fleet support, through life support; Lockheed Martin - programme management and engineering; QinetiQ - computer modelling and simulation, technology, test and evaluation; Rolls Royce - propulsion, life support; Strachan & Henshaw - waste management, munitions handling; Swan Hunter - construction; VT Group - naval architecture, construction, through life support.

The Maritime Group at QinetiQ have developed a suite of advanced modelling and simulation programs which are being used by the QinetiQ and DPA teams with BAE Systems and the major contractors to characterise the hull, flight deck, hangar deck, internal carrier design and other features.

CVF AIRCRAFT CARRIER HULL

The hull designs are being planned for a 50-year service life and are currently being configured with a ski ramp for short take off vertical landing (STOVL) operations. The carrier's service life is substantially longer than the 20-year service life of the selected F-35 STOVL carrier aircraft. The DPA has decided the carriers will be upgradeable to a conventional take-off and landing (CTOL) design, so the option will be available to operate conventional maritime aircraft.

A number of protective measures such as side armour and armoured bulkheads proposed by industrial bid teams have been deleted from the design in order to comply with cost limitations.

JOINT COMBAT AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS

The carrier will support 42 Joint Combat Aircraft carrying out up to 420 sorties over five days and be able to conduct day and night time operations. The maximum sortie rate is 110 Joint Combat Aircraft sorties per 24-hour period.

The standard airgroup aircraft include the Lockheed Martin F-35B Joint Strike Fighter, the EH-101 Merlin helicopter and the Maritime Surveillance and Control aircraft (MASC). The maximum launch rate is 24 aircraft in 15 minutes and the maximum recovery rate is 24 aircraft in 24 minutes.

The MASC airborne early warning aircraft is an airborne early warning aircraft to succeed the Sea King AEW helicopter. AEW variants of the EH101 helicopter and the Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey are being considered for the MASC requirement.

The hanger deck, 155m x 33.5m x 6.7m to 10m high, accommodates up to 20 fixed and rotary wing aircraft.

ISLANDS

Instead of a traditional single island, a current ship design has two smaller islands. The forward island is for ship control functions and the aft (FLYCO) island is for flying control. Advantages of the two island configuration are increased flight deck area, reduced air turbulence over the flight deck and increased flexibility of space allocation in the lower decks. The flight control centre in the aft island is in the optimum position for control of the critical aircraft approach and deck landings.

Depending on budget availability, the radar fit will include a BAE Systems Sampson multi-function radar on the forward island and an Alenia Marconi Systems S1850M air surveillance radar on the aft FLYCO island. The AMS S1850M air surveillance radar, operating at 1GHz to 2GHz, is an electronically stabilised multibeam radar, operating up to an elevation of 0° to 70° and providing automatic target detection and tracking to a range of 400km. The Sampson multifunction radar includes two phased array antennae planes which are rotated and which scan electronically in azimuth and in elevation to provide 360° coverage. The four-sided pyramidal masthead with a spherical low-loss glass fibre reinforced plastic radome gives the Sampson radar its distinctive appearance.

AIRCRAFT CARRIER DECK

The deck will support simultaneous launch and recovery operations. The deck is fitted with a 13° bow deck ski jump.

No catapult or arresters will be fitted in the initial build but the carrier will be built to accommodate a future back-fit. The carrier will be fitted with a steam catapult or electromagnetic launch system and arrester gear, if the option to convert the carrier to the conventional take-off and landing (CTOL) variant proceeds.

The deck has three runways: two shorter runways of approx. 160m for the STOVL Joint Strike Fighter and a long runway, approx. 260m over the full length of the carrier, for launching heavily loaded aircraft. The deck will have one or two vertical landing pads for the F-35 aircraft towards the stern of the ship.

Jet Blast Deflectors will be fitted on each runway 160m back from the bow ski jump and probably in line with the rear wall of the first island. The deflectors protect the deck from the blast of the F-35 joint strike fighter aircraft engines operating at maximum thrust for take-off.

There will be two large 70t-load deck-edge aircraft lifts to transfer aircraft between the hangar and flight decks, one between the islands and one to the aft of the FLYCO island.

QinetiQ and the US Navy carried out a study on an electromagnetic catapult launcher. Early studies indicated that a 300ft-long, 90MW linear motor would be needed for the CVF, but both MOD and UK industry would wish to see the results of demonstrations and trials of electromagnetic launcher technology before considering the selection of a launch system. An Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS) is to be developed by General Atomics in USA for the USN CVN-21 aircraft carrier. The maturity of EMALS technology for integration into UK CVF will be assessed as the US CVN-21 program progresses.

SYSTEMS

Communications systems will include Joint Tactical Information and Distribution System (JTIDS) and Links 10, 11, 14 and 16. The carrier might be built for but not with the installation of a close in weapons system. Another system which could be fitted if budget were made available would be two 16-cell vertical launchers for the Aster missiles.

AIRCRAFT CARRIER PROPULSION

The MOD has decided not to use nuclear propulsion because of high cost, and several alternative configurations have been considered for the propulsion system, including a 25MW WR21 gas turbine, as used on the Type 45 frigate, and a podded propulsion system based on Integrated Full Electric Propulsion (IFEP).

A configuration currently being considered is based on two Rolls Royce Marine Trent 36MW MT30 gas turbine alternators driving two electric motors. The motors power fixed conventional propeller shafts. http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/cvf/
 
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adsH

New Member
Aussie Digger said:
Cause the French and the British are combining their projects to build new Carriers and the Brits want conventionally powered Carriers? They'll manage to cut overall costs by buliding 3 carriers under a single program... Plus the French already operate a Nuclear Powered Carrier, and I'm sure they are well aware of the power needs for their carrier. They must be convinced a Conventional powered Carrier is sufficient...

Aussie the British CVF program as far as i'm aware of it is a separate one to the french one. thales input was preferred by the The Uk MOD so they awarded the project to both BAE Systems and Thales. And i think the Nuke Power Propulsion system was evaluated to be too Costly for operation, given the fact that Nuke Power is becoming increasing unfeasible (For us) Since our Safety requirements push up the prices. DSTL probably evaluated the total Life Cost of the the Nuke power and settled with the Conventional Power Plant.
 

adsH

New Member
ivan..the.great said:
im curious where france thinks it is necessary to project the force of two aircraft carriers.
You Keep projecting Force in one Part of the World while Rotating your Carriers. this will reduce Strain and Battle fatigue on your crew allow you to Carry out Maintenance on one while the other is on active Duty Lets say the Gulf!!
 

scg_af

New Member
Re: "Thales" french aircraft carrier?

thank u very much for all that info!:)





it appears that France and the UK are making many military projects together.
 

adsH

New Member
Re: "Thales" french aircraft carrier?

scg_af said:
thank u very much for all that info!:)





it appears that France and the UK are making many military projects together.

Uk and France have traditionally cooperated on many projects but the Our CVF Is different to the French Aircraft Carrier. we Have different requirements. THales has been Let inn to the BAE systems Project since the Government wanted Thales in the project.
 

scg_af

New Member
Re: "Thales" french aircraft carrier?

adsH said:
Uk and France have traditionally cooperated on many projects but the Our CVF Is different to the French Aircraft Carrier. we Have different requirements. THales has been Let inn to the BAE systems Project since the Government wanted Thales in the project.

Both countries are a part of NATO....is that why they're doing so many project together?
 

P.A.F

New Member
they are also both part of the european union which is the main thing about their co-operation. how ever i do sometimes feel that france or britian are parting away from the european union.
 

Musashi_kenshin

Well-Known Member
P.A.F said:
they are also both part of the european union which is the main thing about their co-operation. how ever i do sometimes feel that france or britian are parting away from the european union.
Not really - it's more that we both have different views of how the EU should be. And Tony Blair is really pissed off at the French because of their attitude over the Constitution and the UK rebate/EU budget. Chirac had a chance at working with the UK and he gave us the finger because he thought he could make us a junior partner. But he'll be laughing on the other side of his face soon, considering what's happening with the current EU budget discussions.

adsH said:
UK and France have traditionally cooperated on many projects but the Our CVF Is different to the French Aircraft Carrier. we Have different requirements.
Yeah, that's also why we dropped out of Horizon - the French and Italians (I think the Italians especially) wanted something that wouldn't fulfill our requirements.
 

adsH

New Member
Musashi_kenshin said:
Yeah, that's also why we dropped out of Horizon - the French and Italians (I think the Italians especially) wanted something that wouldn't fulfill our requirements.

We'll still be using there surface construction facilities for our next gen Ships. I really hate it that our shipYards are shutting down and there's are flourishing.
 

adsH

New Member
P.A.F said:
they are also both part of the european union which is the main thing about their co-operation. how ever i do sometimes feel that france or britian are parting away from the european union.
Politically Yes both are Parting. But if you look closer one (France) is usually more in favor of the "Old Europe" Free trade and loosely coupled Nations " Bunch of Privileged Nations". While the UK is Pro TransAtlantic Trade (while diluting the Europe with new Blood East Europe LArger Consumer Market for the US ). We'll always be Pro Transatlantic Trade because The Majority of Foreign investment in the UK is from the US (Our Primary Market is the US). Our Defense Research and development industry thrives on grants and investments from the US. So we-European Countries both Have our interest.
 
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