Corvettes for Australian Navy?

[icelord]

Recently a few Sea power confrences in Aus. have displayed a multi role corvette. Designed by AUSTRAL it is based on a trimaran concept, much like the Littoral Combat Ship design recently sold to the USN for replacement of FFGs. The benefit of a Corvette are something the RAN should consider. The MRC can cruise at 30-35 Knots with a payload of 75 tonnes, these can include 12 Bushmasters or ASLAVS, Also it can carry a single helicopter such as the NH-90 recently planned for the RAN. Its multi purpose mission deck can carry 100 seated passengers, a theatre hospital or act as a command and control centre.
For the RAN it is well placed to operate in Operation Relex II And Operation Cranberry. The corvette can operate much like the Armidale-class patrol boats, but with the helo and large storage capacity, mixed with high speed, it can not only intercept illegal immigrants but hold them without calling a Major Fleet Vessel. A MRC is able to carry any new RHIBs the SOCOMD aquires and transport SAS or 4RAR. This is of benefit should any new conflict open within the pacific islands as it can quickly deploy a Special forces team with vehicles and supplies in rapid time.
The corvettes major advantages are in its ability to be cost effective and with only 35 crew, it is able to carry out ops that normally use a Major Fleet units with a crew of 200. In Op. Relex II, a major fleet unit is supported by a Orion and Armidale class patrol boats, with a corvette possibly 2 could be used in place of a single MFU which would be able to cover more area without losing to much capability, and it would still use 140 less personel then currently involved. It would also be of benefit perhaps to the Australian customs, although they already have a modern fleet of vessels. In relation to this, a corvette could lead a pursuit much like in August 2003 when an Aus Customs vessel chased across the southern ocean to South Africa the Sth American ship Viarsa 1, making the longest hot pursuit in Australian maritime history.
Corvettes are currently being delievered to several Euro countries, and are a consideration for the USN and USCG. With this in mind, is it an idea the ADF should look at, its expansion of the navy is growing, and with an ever changing role at sea, perhaps this could be of benefit. If so, how many would be needed to be effective?

[knightrider4]

Personally I dont like the idea, we have precious few warships with tangible combat power as it is without wasting precious resources on these types of vessels.

[Capt. Picard]

If they were equiped with some sort of 25mm or plus gun and a VLS they would be useful.

[Sea Toby]

Why not just build the OPVs Tenix is building for New Zealand? They would accomplish the same mission for much less costs, and have better sea keeping capabilities for the Southern ocean areas. I think two on the Indian and Pacific coasts would be enough, 4 OPVs total.

[knightrider4]

With the current administration in power no chance of that happening. Australia has manning shortfalls for our miniscule force now and manning OPV'S of no real combat value to perform functions that vessels such as the Oceanic Viking under the command of customs can do adequately is a waste of precious resources.

[Sea Toby]

I am not familiar with the Australian customs boats or boat used for fishery protection. I do know that the New Zealand OPVs are 85 meters in length, displace 1,600 tons, a speed of 22 knots, have one 25mm Bushmaster gun, with a hangar and deck for a Seasprite helicopter. Does the Australian customs boats or boat have similar capabilities? Are the Australian customs boats or boat large enough to patrol the Southern ocean areas?

[contedicavour]

I see all the benefits of OPVs when you have tens of islands to patrol, or when the sea is small enough for illegal trafficking in small fast crafts to cross over and reach your coast in no time.
Examples would be the Mediterranean or Indonesia.
For an island-continent such as Australia, with no neighbor close enough, I prefer to finance enough FFGs rather than opting for a mix of FFGs and OPVs.
Besides, an OPV armed only with 25mm and a helo is frankly not enough for anything but coast guard operations (at least 76mm calibre gun plus some limited SAM/CIWS system would be needed for military purposes)

cheers

[NZLAV]

The RNZN is getting 2 OPV's that have the following aspects:
Key Dates
July 2002 NZ MoD issues Invitation to Register (ITR)
29 July 2004 Project Protector contract signed between NZ MoD and Tenix Defence. OPVs to be built at Tenix's Williamstown Yard, Victoria, Australia with modules barged across the Tasman from Tenix's Whangarei, New Zealand shipbuilding facility.
22 February 2005 First OPV steel cut
December 2005 OPV1 keel laid
31 March 2006 Future commissioned names announced - OPV1 to be HMNZS Otago (P148) and OPV2 to be HMNZS Wellington (P55)
November 2006 OPV1 to be launched
April 2007 planned delivery OPV1 to RNZN
October 2007 planned delivery OPV2 to RNZN
[edit]
Design origin
Conceived as part of Project Protector, the Ministry of Defence acquisition project to acquire one multi-role vessel, two offshore and four inshore patrol vessels. The Project Protector vessels will be operated by the RNZN to conduct tasks for and with the New Zealand Customs Service, the Department of Conservation, Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, Ministry of Fisheries, Maritime New Zealand, and New Zealand Police.

Variations of the OPV design are in service with the Irish Naval Service (since 1999) and the Mauritian Coast Guard (since 1996). The vessel is compliant with all of the operational requirements for patrol and response, cargo carriage and handling, sea keeping for sea boat and helicopter operations, and has a high level of comfort for crew and client agency officials.

[edit]
Names
On 31 March 2006 the Hon. Phil Goff, Minister of Defence, announced that the OPVs will be named HMNZS Otago and HMNZS Wellington. Otago and Wellington are the names of frigates previously operated by the RNZN. These ships will carry the honour board of their predecessors, and the heritage so represented.

On 8 July 2006 the RNZN website was indicating pennant numbers as HMNZS Otago (P148) and HMNZS Wellington(P55).

[edit]
General characteristics
Displacement: 1600 tonnes
Length overall: 85 metres
Beam: 14 metres
Speed: 22 knots
Range: 6,000nm
Minimum endurance: 21 days stores
Core ship's company: 35
Flight personnel: 10
Government agencies: 4
Additional PAX: 30
[edit]
Propulsion
Two MAN B&W 12RK280 diesel engines with a continuous rating of 5,400 kW at 1,000 rpm
ZF W63000 NRH gearboxes
CP propellers
Baseline speed 22 knots
Economical speed 12 knots
Loiter speed 4-10 knots
[edit]
Helicopter
The helicopter facilities have been designed to replicate those of the RNZN ANZAC frigates
SH-2G Seasprite



[edit]
Ship's Boats and Cargo Handling
2 x RHIB (7.74m) each with own crane
1x special forces RHIB (11m)
1 x sea container
15 tonne crane aft
Maximum SH-2G helicopter cargo lift 1814 kg
[edit]
EEZ Patrol and Response
Sea boat deployment and recovery in sea state 4 (seas moderate, waves 1.25 - 2.5m)
Helicopter launch and recovery in sea state 5 (seas rough, waves 2.5 - 4m)
Vertrep in sea state 6 (seas very rough, waves 4 - 6m)
Ability to patrol in sea state 6 and survive in sea state 9 (seas phenomenal, waves over 14m)
[edit]
Armament
ATK (via ADI/MSI) M242 Bushmaster 25mm cannon with remote weapons station, including optical direction (The NZ Army's 105 light armoured vehicles NZLAVs also use the M242, sharing ammunition and training.)
2x12.75mm machine guns
small arms
SH-2G helicopter can use homing torpedos, depth charges, Maverick air-to-surface missiles, M60 machine gun
[edit]
Ice Strengthening
Strengthened to provide ice class 1C protection.
Involved strengthening the bow section, ice belt region, fin stabilisers, propulsion shaftline and the propellers.
[edit]
Crew ranks and appointments
According to Written Question 01976 to the Minister of Defence, the ranks and appointments of the OPV will be as follows:

Rank Appointment Position Service
LT CDR CO Commanding Officer Navy
LT CDR/LT XO Executive Officer Navy
LT/SLT NO Navigation Officer Navy
LT/SLT/ENS BWK Bridge Watchkeeper Navy
LT/SLT/ENS SO Bridge Watchkeeper Navy
LT EO Engineering Officer Navy
CPO PMM Plant and Maintenance Manager Navy
PO ESCMM Propulsion and Aux. POS# Supervisor Navy
L PHASM Prop, HVAC# & Aux. Systems Maintainer Navy
L ESM Electrical Systems Maintainer Navy
A PHASM Prop, HVAC & Aux. Systems Maintainer Navy
A ESM Electrical Systems Maintainer Navy
PO Snr Elec Tech Senior Electronics Technician Navy
L Elec Tech Electronics Technician Navy
L Weapons Tech Weapons Technician Navy
A Elec Tech Electronics Technician Navy
PO Snr Chef Catering Manager Navy
A Chef WK Watchkeeping Chef Navy
A Chef WK Watchkeeping Chef Navy
A Chef WK Watchkeeping Chef Navy
L Snr SA Logistic Support Navy
L Medic Medical Support Navy
CPO CBM IC Seaman Evolutions Navy
PO Comcen Sup Communications Supervisor Navy
A COM Communications Operator Navy
A COM Communications Operator Navy
PO Ops Rm Sup Ops. Room Supervisor/CBM#’s Assistant Navy
A Ops Room AB Ops Room Operator Navy
A Ops Room AB Ops Room Operator Navy
L POS, BP#, Evo# Maintenance Team Leader Navy
L POS, BP#, Evo#, Maintenance Team Leader Navy
A AB Quartermaster Navy
A AB Quartermaster Navy
A AB Quartermaster Navy
A AB Quartermaster Navy
M Fish Boarding Civilian
M Fish Boarding Civilian
Customs Boarding Civilian
Customs Boarding Civilian
LT CDR FLTCDR Flight Commander Navy
LT PLT/OBS Pilot/Observer Navy
LH/CPO AC Aircrewman Navy
FSGT SMR Senior Maintenance Rating Air Force
SGT AT Aircraft Technician Air Force
CPL AT Aircraft Technician Air Force
CPL AT Aircraft Technician Air Force
SGT SAVTECH Senior Avionics Technician Air Force
CPL AVTECH Avionics Technician Air Force
SGT ARMR Armourer Technician Air Force

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNZN_OPV

Note that the OPV will not be armed with just a 25mm, it has several 12.75mgs and a well armed helicopter, plus small arms. (mayby even a Javelin if they go into hostile situations.

The OPV can be used in combat with support of a frigate. The OPV could be used as coastal support with a frigate. It could fire apon a beach in which the MRV is going to land.

[contedicavour]

Your OPVs will certainly be very useful, and thanks for posting all of their characteristics. The only point I challenge is your assumption that it could cover your MRV's landing with only their 25mm and 12.7mm and a helo without missiles ?
99% of the job would have to be done by the 127mm gun on your ANZAC frigates. Without their presence, the least artillery gun on the shore could kill several marines...

[Sea Toby]

One can easily place a larger gun mount on an OPV, the New Zealand OPVs are very similar to Irish OPVs which do have the 76mm gun. America seems to be agreeing with other nations such as Canada, that only a 57mm gun is required on its new LCS. Since a nation can purchase from 5-8 OPVs for the price of one frigate, doing so will free up the frigates for naval warfare duties. At least a nation wouldn't have to waste an expensive frigate to do EEZ patrol duties.

[contedicavour]

Originally Posted by Sea Toby

One can easily place a larger gun mount on an OPV, the New Zealand OPVs are very similar to Irish OPVs which do have the 76mm gun. America seems to be agreeing with other nations such as Canada, that only a 57mm gun is required on its new LCS. Since a nation can purchase from 5-8 OPVs for the price of one frigate, doing so will free up the frigates for naval warfare duties. At least a nation wouldn't have to waste an expensive frigate to do EEZ patrol duties.

As long as the OPV has the chance to do only purely patrol duties. If anything serious (landing in hostile area, ASUW against anything having 76mm or more) arises, the ship is dead and pray you have enough frigates nearby.

cheers

[Sea Toby]

Obviously an OPV wouldn't get too close to land based artillery, using its SAS boats and/or helicopter to land a party of men at night. In the South Pacific there are many places to land a small party of men, chances are New Zealand would not land at a beach with know land based artillery, thereby using an OPV would be suitable. At least it could straf the beach if necessary.

The whole point of having OPVs is to do the EEZ duties without having to waste a frigate. OPVs are quite capable of doing EEZ duties very well. Attempting to use them for shore bombardment isn't what they were designed for.

Frankly, many nations that have patrol boats such as Australia do intend to use their boats to land small numbers of men, at least for scouting purposes. With an OPV a larger number of men could be landed.

Unlike many OPVs worldwide, the New Zealand OPVs do have a hangar and deck for a SeaSprite helicopter. Using the helicopter along with their Maverick missiles provide much longer range fire power than a non-helicopter frigate that does have a 76mm gun.

[contedicavour]

Originally Posted by Sea Toby

Obviously an OPV wouldn't get too close to land based artillery, using its SAS boats and/or helicopter to land a party of men at night. In the South Pacific there are many places to land a small party of men, chances are New Zealand would not land at a beach with know land based artillery, thereby using an OPV would be suitable. At least it could straf the beach if necessary.

The whole point of having OPVs is to do the EEZ duties without having to waste a frigate. OPVs are quite capable of doing EEZ duties very well. Attempting to use them for shore bombardment isn't what they were designed for.

Frankly, many nations that have patrol boats such as Australia do intend to use their boats to land small numbers of men, at least for scouting purposes. With an OPV a larger number of men could be landed.

Unlike many OPVs worldwide, the New Zealand OPVs do have a hangar and deck for a SeaSprite helicopter. Using the helicopter along with their Maverick missiles provide much longer range fire power than a non-helicopter frigate that does have a 76mm gun.

The NZ Seasprites carry Mavericks ? I didn't know that.
Anyway, Mavs have a range of 25km, still comparable to a Oto Melara 76mm super rapid gun with the ER/guided ammunition Vulcano programme). With the gun you can shoot 120 rounds a minute... better than 2 Mavs.
My point is that building OPVs with the armament of a small patrol craft is a real waste of money. Put some real artillery aboard.

cheers

[Sea Toby]

I would prefer a larger gunmount too, but considering the small size of New Zealand's forces, using a similar gun the Army uses does make economic sense. As I noted before, I doubt whether New Zealand will ever use these OPVs as shore bombardment assets anyway. Many doubt whether New Zealand has enough forces to mount an opposed landing either.

[Whiskyjack]

Originally Posted by icelord

Recently a few Sea power confrences in Aus. have displayed a multi role corvette. Designed by AUSTRAL it is based on a trimaran concept, much like the Littoral Combat Ship design recently sold to the USN for replacement of FFGs. The benefit of a Corvette are something the RAN should consider. The MRC can cruise at 30-35 Knots with a payload of 75 tonnes, these can include 12 Bushmasters or ASLAVS, Also it can carry a single helicopter such as the NH-90 recently planned for the RAN. Its multi purpose mission deck can carry 100 seated passengers, a theatre hospital or act as a command and control centre.

I like the design, in the regional context of PNG/South Pacific it makes sense to have a ship that is capable of patrolling, showing the flag, disaster relief, aid work, carrying limited number of troops and equipment. The weapons fit may go up to 57mm.

Small crew multi role platform. Time to start thinking out side the square here I think.