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This is a discussion on Chinese Navy News and Discussion within the Navy & Maritime forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Originally Posted by HKSDU Have you ever thought China is always the quite one.They don't mess in other people's affairs ...


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Old December 13th, 2010   #46
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Have you ever thought China is always the quite one.They don't mess in other people's affairs or assert too much. That has been Chinese culture. Chinese people are placid race. Just cause they don't want to bully another country or stick their nose into other people's matter doesn't make them weak, scared or pushover. They will only act when its in their nations interest. Unlike some other countries who go to war over some imaginary generated threat that they made up themselves. Its easy to talk when the country isn't armed with nukes and is smack bang right beside you (China).
Ever heard of the korean war?
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Old December 13th, 2010   #47
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In all honesty their actions in the Korean was were (geo-politically speaking) fairly conservative. China's lack of interventionism may well be a result of little capacity to do so, but so far they haven't been nearly as involved as many other powerful states.
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Old December 13th, 2010   #48
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Anyway here are some recent picture of the new Type-052C destroyers getting ready for launch.
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Old December 13th, 2010   #49
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Can I just re-state the need for civility here, as GF did on the previous page, before this into an all-out derailing of the thread. If people want to take not-so-veiled shots at the foreign policies and government behaviour of various nations, Western or Eastern, please don't do it here. It's not a political forum, nor is it the topic of discussion, so if we can steer it back to the Chinese Navy, thanks guys. I'm not taking sides here - rather pre-empting any further disagreement.
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Old December 13th, 2010   #50
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Wow. Wonderful off-topic. If we want to continue the discussion of Chinese geo-politics, we have an Intros and Off-Topic forum just for that sort of thing. Take it there. This is a thread about the Chinese navy.

EDIT: All Off-topic split and moved to the Off-Topic forum. If you want to continue the discussion there, feel free.

Last edited by Feanor; December 13th, 2010 at 09:52 PM.
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Old December 14th, 2010   #51
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Deleted. Off Topic

Both Feanor and Bonza have been pretty clear about what is going to be tolerated in here.

Get it right or don't post.

This applies to all posters - not just you

gf

Last edited by gf0012-aust; December 14th, 2010 at 03:19 AM.
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Old December 15th, 2010   #52
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Nope, that goes to the japanese. - and certainly in capability terms

eg look at the submarine forces, missile cruisers, CEC capability, expeditionary capability, ASW etc.....

the chinese are nowhere near the japanese in force structure and capability
My view point is that when comparing navies one must also compare brute fire power.For example PLAN has land attack capability from its destroyers and frigates and also maritime strike aircraft like Xian JH-7,whereas JMSDF has no land attack capability because it is built around a defensive doctrine.
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Old December 15th, 2010   #53
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My view point is that when comparing navies one must also compare brute fire power.For example PLAN has land attack capability from its destroyers and frigates and also maritime strike aircraft like Xian JH-7,whereas JMSDF has no land attack capability because it is built around a defensive doctrine.
read my earlier

it reinforces the fact that china can only fight a maritime war against a competent foe if they are in green or light blue waters - ie they are dependant on support from landbased air.

as it is the japanese have robust CEC and can still contend and defend against a chinese maritime force with supporting land air.

china can't do the same.
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Old December 15th, 2010   #54
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read my earlier

it reinforces the fact that china can only fight a maritime war against a competent foe if they are in green or light blue waters - ie they are dependant on support from landbased air.

as it is the japanese have robust CEC and can still contend and defend against a chinese maritime force with supporting land air.

china can't do the same.
I think you misunderstood my post.I am not referring to land based air support.I am referring to land attack capability in the form of cruise missiles.
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Old December 15th, 2010   #55
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Japan has severe limits on what it can put into its ships. I believe thats why they have so little land attack capability. Though they seem to be waking up.

But back on topic........SORRY!

China's military may not be able to project right now but 15 years ago i doubt anyone would have predicted the size the chinese would grow their navy or military in general. The chinese are at the end of a VERY long and complicated chain of supply as a nation a good navy is essental for them as for us in the US.

Currently they OWN the world on probably the most important resource besides Oil which is rare earth metals which go into ever increasing amount of products (including those brand new electric cars that will get us off foreign oil ) they will need alot more logistics capability and blue water experience before they could take on all the asian powers as well as the US but then that doesnt mention how our fleet will change in the years to come.

So as was said they great for littorals and such but agaisnt a carrier battlegroup in the pacific....
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Old December 15th, 2010   #56
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Currently they OWN the world on probably the most important resource besides Oil which is rare earth metals which go into ever increasing amount of products (including those brand new electric cars that will get us off foreign oil ) they will need alot more logistics capability and blue water experience before they could take on all the asian powers as well as the US but then that doesnt mention how our fleet will change in the years to come.
Thats only a temporary situation though with many rare earth mines being constructed around the world, despite their name rare earths are actually very common.

The only reason they dominate the market is because they undercut everyone else until they were the only suppliers left. Theres two huge mines being constructed in Australia along with mines in Canada, USA, Vietnam, etc. Given the way China has used its monopoly on rare earths no one can rely on Chinese supply anymore so the market is wide open and largely protected from the Chinese by their own actions.

ed: China's most important natural resource is manpower. Its not impossible for western nations to counter this though, there is alot of progress being made in unmanned systems and the technical hurdles for AI controlled aircraft and ships/subs aren't that great.
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Old December 15th, 2010   #57
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Rare earth wasn't that profitable to mine before.

Australia will proberly own that market, as we can pull simular quanities out of our tailings for low cost.

We can certainly counter china's man power advantage, look at Australian mines, through automation, you can run an entire mine with absoletely minimal staff. Essentially just maintence. Japan has proven that the cheapest way to build cars is with robots, not people.
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Old December 16th, 2010   #58
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I am afraid that the Rare Earth "embargo" story was largely misinformation.

Chinese production did indeed crash the global market in the 90's and China has been very concerned about the depletion of its deposits for very low returns and the environmental damage caused by a largely unregulated extraction and processing industry.

Since late 2005, China has announced its intention to better regulate the industry and install export quota;s for particular salts etc. Japanese companies have been buying cheap Chinese production both legitimately from the open market and illegitimately from black market and is estimated to have stockpiles of key rare earth salts sufficient for as long as the next twenty years.

China is concerned to maintain reserves for its own domestic consumption and is keen to promote the resumption of production in other countries. I know that China has over the last couple of years sent delegations to Australia and California to encourage REM mine owners to do so.

Fortunately the Heavyweight Financial Press were aware of this and said so, even if the tabloids were happy to sensationalise.
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Old December 16th, 2010   #59
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Rare earth wasn't that profitable to mine before.

Australia will proberly own that market, as we can pull simular quanities out of our tailings for low cost.

We can certainly counter china's man power advantage, look at Australian mines, through automation, you can run an entire mine with absoletely minimal staff. Essentially just maintence. Japan has proven that the cheapest way to build cars is with robots, not people.
I wasnt talking about china mainland production but world production. They are buying the companies that own the mines. And the mines themselves. And every year export less.
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Old December 16th, 2010   #60
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I wasnt talking about china mainland production but world production. They are buying the companies that own the mines. And the mines themselves. And every year export less.
Sorry, but owning mining rights on other countries does not means strategically can control the mines like in your own country. In short any country can strategically keep the minerals mined in their land regardless who own the mining company. Thus even China own mining company in Africa (for example), US or other potential China opposition can compete to influence that particullar nation to hold the shipment even to China it self.
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