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Brazilian Naval Strength

This is a discussion on Brazilian Naval Strength within the Navy & Maritime forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Originally Posted by dragonfire ...but you must agree that a nuclear submarine however small or with an SSK hull ... ...


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Old January 27th, 2009   #76
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...but you must agree that a nuclear submarine however small or with an SSK hull ... is definetely better than a conventionaly powered nuc-sub .
What is a "conventionaly (sic) powered nuc-sub"? Do you mean nuclear-armed? The discussion is about SSNs, i.e. nuclear-powered fleet submarines, not nuclear-armed submarines.
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Old January 27th, 2009   #77
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Ofcourse SD it in no way would compare to other currently deployed nuc-subs, but you must agree that a nuclear submarine however small or with an SSK hull (which by the way would probably be a little diff than the other scorpenes - i bet tht it would be slightly longer too) is definetely better than a conventionaly powered nuc-sub - of the top of hat - range, submereged period (am sure it will have an AIP) etc will give it more than just an edge over conventional subs
Please clarify what you mean by "definetely better than a conventionaly powered nuc-sub". (?)
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Old January 27th, 2009   #78
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Once again the Brazilian SSN is merely an SSK hull with nuclear propulsion and NOT like the fleet SSN's in the USN, Royal Navy, French Navy and Russian Navy.
Whether the relatively small French SSNs are "fleet SSNs" is another question in itself...
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Old January 27th, 2009   #79
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Whether the relatively small French SSNs are "fleet SSNs" is another question in itself...
I.E how do you define what is a fleet SSN.
What's interesting despite French nuke knowledge (civil) they are youngest SSN operator having its first sub commissioned in 83 nearly a decade after China.
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Old January 28th, 2009   #80
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What is a "conventionaly (sic) powered nuc-sub"? Do you mean nuclear-armed? The discussion is about SSNs, i.e. nuclear-powered fleet submarines, not nuclear-armed submarines.
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Please clarify what you mean by "definetely better than a conventionaly powered nuc-sub". (?)

My bad - i meant conventionaly powered sub i.e. diesel / electric or other propulsion which not nuclear


My msg again - However small or with irregular design (not the usual SSN designs) a nuclear powered submarine has definite advantages over a submarine which is not having nuclear propulsion, the primary advantage being the range of the sub rises substantialy and the period it can remain submereged is also hugely diff. This being the case the brazil nuc sub on the scorpene type hull will be definetely a model which is not at par with other regular SSNs but it would be a nuc - sub nevertheless and possibily be cheaper than the other regular SSNs and perhaps pave way for future classes in this category for smaller SSNs
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Old May 1st, 2009   #81
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There is some buzz in Brazil that the Navy is looking at new construction frigates to replace the Niteroi (Vosper Mk-10) class. The plan is to begin construction of (3) new build 6,000 ton ships in 2011 (in Brazil).

Possible candidates are:

Hyundai KDX-2 class, 5,200 tons, US$420 M
Northrup Grumman, Hobart class, 6,250 tons, US$1 B (?)
DCNS, FREMM class, 6,500 tons, US$600 M

There is speculation the French have created a mega weapons systems package with attractive offsets to include torpedoes, BVR missiles, MANPADS, SAMs, and assistance with designing the next Brazilian aircraft carrier. This package would encompass Navy, Army, and Air Force and is highly dependent on the Rafale winning the FAB F-X2.

Stay tuned . . . . .
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Old May 1st, 2009   #82
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There is some buzz in Brazil that the Navy is looking at new construction frigates to replace the Niteroi (Vosper Mk-10) class. The plan is to begin construction of (3) new build 6,000 ton ships in 2011 (in Brazil).

Possible candidates are:

Hyundai KDX-2 class, 5,200 tons, US$420 M
Northrup Grumman, Hobart class, 6,250 tons, US$1 B (?)
DCNS, FREMM class, 6,500 tons, US$600 M

There is speculation the French have created a mega weapons systems package with attractive offsets to include torpedoes, BVR missiles, MANPADS, SAMs, and assistance with designing the next Brazilian aircraft carrier. This package would encompass Navy, Army, and Air Force and is highly dependent on the Rafale winning the FAB F-X2.

Stay tuned . . . . .
Interesting news, Salty Dog, esp. regarding the possible candidates. I didn't know the KDX-2 was up for sale at all and I guess this clearly would be an exotic choice compared to the other two. I'm wondering though if there won't be some others in the near future. Any idea when (and if) there will be an RFP?
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Old May 1st, 2009   #83
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There is some buzz in Brazil that the Navy is looking at new construction frigates to replace the Niteroi (Vosper Mk-10) class. The plan is to begin construction of (3) new build 6,000 ton ships in 2011 (in Brazil).

Possible candidates are:

Hyundai KDX-2 class, 5,200 tons, US$420 M
Northrup Grumman, Hobart class, 6,250 tons, US$1 B (?)
DCNS, FREMM class, 6,500 tons, US$600 M

There is speculation the French have created a mega weapons systems package with attractive offsets to include torpedoes, BVR missiles, MANPADS, SAMs, and assistance with designing the next Brazilian aircraft carrier. This package would encompass Navy, Army, and Air Force and is highly dependent on the Rafale winning the FAB F-X2.

Stay tuned . . . . .
I haven't heard any rumblings about such a deal. When would the next Brazilian carrier go into service?
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Old May 1st, 2009   #84
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Northrup Grumman, Hobart class, 6,250 tons, US$1 B (?)
The Baby Burke or the F-100 derivative?
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Old July 13th, 2009   #85
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The Baby Burke or the F-100 derivative?
Neither. The Northrup Grumman design is a 5000 t "International Patrol Frigate" and is based on the USGC National Security Cutter.
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Old July 13th, 2009   #86
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Neither. The Northrup Grumman design is a 5000 t "International Patrol Frigate" and is based on the USGC National Security Cutter.
Hate to ask, but why did you call it the Hobart class then? As Aegis said, the two options for the Hobart were a Baby Burke or a Modified F100, F100 was chosen.
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Old July 13th, 2009   #87
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Hate to ask, but why did you call it the Hobart class then? As Aegis said, the two options for the Hobart were a Baby Burke or a Modified F100, F100 was chosen.
The initial information was street buzz, but since then I've seen a bit more info on the Northrup Grumman project. Always good to keep updating info, especially when it's just street buzz.
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Old July 16th, 2009   #88
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Here is a article from a online French naval magazine. The article discusses future Brazilian Naval procurements.

Le portail des sous-marins > Les futurs projets de la marine brésilienne

The Brazilian Navy will be launching several tenders for AAW escorts, OPV/corvettes, a large logistics support ship, and a aircraft carrier.


Brazilians haven't decided yet on were to buy an LHD or and aircraft carrier.
Several countries plan to submit proposals for the Brazilian tenders.

France
FREMM
Gowind
Mistral
conventional CDG

Spain
F-100
BPE
25,000 logistics support ship

South Korea
KDX II
Dokdo
logistics support ship 20,000t

Germany
Sachsen (Type 124)
Braunschweig (Type K130)
logistics support ship Berlin Class

USA
AAW DDG 8,000 toons
5600 ton FFG
San Antonio Class LPD

All of the ships will be built in Brazilian shipyards. The Brazilians are currently analyzing the proposals; the tenders will be awarded in the following order OPV/corvettes, logistics support ship, AAW escorts, and then the aircraft carrier.

Last edited by Spacearrow99; July 16th, 2009 at 10:07 PM.
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Old July 18th, 2009   #89
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No mention of Italy in there, (Fincantieri does the lot), or German LHDs (TKMS MHD 200), or the Dutch, who can also fill all the slots (Damen Sigma corvettes, DZP AAW, Enforcer LPD/JSS), or BVT corvettes/OPVs. I'd expect all that lot to at least consider making offers. Have they offered & been rejected?
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Old July 18th, 2009   #90
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No mention of Italy in there, (Fincantieri does the lot), or German LHDs (TKMS MHD 200), or the Dutch, who can also fill all the slots (Damen Sigma corvettes, DZP AAW, Enforcer LPD/JSS), or BVT corvettes/OPVs. I'd expect all that lot to at least consider making offers. Have they offered & been rejected?
It´s still open season in Brazil. No RFPs have been issued so contractors are busy marketing. All of them were present at LAAD earlier this year.

There are a number of articles is the various Brazilian military magazines on the various naval projects available worldwide.

Funding should not be a problem as the monies will come from royalties from offshore oilfield production.

It will be interesting to see if the RFPs will go out soon as 2010 is an election year. With the upbeat economy in Brazil, the current administration will want to take credit for resolving the shortage of ships and patrol vessels for the Brazilian Navy.
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