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Brazilian Naval Strength

This is a discussion on Brazilian Naval Strength within the Navy & Maritime forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; ...


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Old September 9th, 2006   #46
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Originally Posted by contedicavour
Well the availability of a single 40+ years-old carrier must be < 6 months a year. That's why I 'd have more in mind a small fleet of 2-3 small 150-metre helicopter carriers with continuous flight deck. With half a dozen heavy helos for ASW and ASUW, they would be very good patrol assets.

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Why "must" that be? I mean, what technical reasons. (budget reasons are a different matter, they do not reflect the NAeL São Paulo's state) What do we know for a fact about her availability?
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Old September 13th, 2006   #47
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Why "must" that be? I mean, what technical reasons. (budget reasons are a different matter, they do not reflect the NAeL São Paulo's state) What do we know for a fact about her availability?
What I know for a fact is the availability of the ship when it was under French service. The ship was ready not more than 6 months a year because of her age, because of the old steam engines that require massive maintenance, and because after 40+ years electronics have a lousy tendency to break down ...

Now you can easily imagine the French Navy has a much higher capability than the Brazilian one when it comes to heavy maintenance.

That's why I'd be extremely surprised if the Sao Paulo/Foch were available more than 6 months a year.

Hence my recommandation for a few small sea control ships the size of a 160-metre LPH for half a dozen heavy ASW/ASUW helos.

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Old September 13th, 2006   #48
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Originally Posted by contedicavour
What I know for a fact is the availability of the ship when it was under French service. The ship was ready not more than 6 months a year because of her age, because of the old steam engines that require massive maintenance, and because after 40+ years electronics have a lousy tendency to break down ...

Now you can easily imagine the French Navy has a much higher capability than the Brazilian one when it comes to heavy maintenance.

That's why I'd be extremely surprised if the Sao Paulo/Foch were available more than 6 months a year.

Hence my recommandation for a few small sea control ships the size of a 160-metre LPH for half a dozen heavy ASW/ASUW helos.

cheers
AFAIK, the optempo of Sao Paulo in Brazilian service is much lower than in the MN. Minas Gerais also lived a quiet life. So her availability could be high, because she isn't being put under any strain. In more or less continuous low-tempo maintenance, with occasional cruises, she could be available whenever she's called on.
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Old September 13th, 2006   #49
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AFAIK, the optempo of Sao Paulo in Brazilian service is much lower than in the MN. Minas Gerais also lived a quiet life. So her availability could be high, because she isn't being put under any strain. In more or less continuous low-tempo maintenance, with occasional cruises, she could be available whenever she's called on.
I agree she's having a quiet life, but I'm not sure leaving a ship inoperational for long times helps make it ready anytime in case of emergency How can you be sure those obsolete complex 42-year old steam engines can be relied upon if the ship has to leave harbor fast ? How do you know electronics is still functioning ?
The more the ship is left rotting in Rio de Janeiro military harbor, the less I would bet on its readiness...

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Old September 13th, 2006   #50
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I agree she's having a quiet life, but I'm not sure leaving a ship inoperational for long times helps make it ready anytime in case of emergency How can you be sure those obsolete complex 42-year old steam engines can be relied upon if the ship has to leave harbor fast ? How do you know electronics is still functioning ?
The more the ship is left rotting in Rio de Janeiro military harbor, the less I would bet on its readiness...

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Depends on exactly how idle she is, & how she's cared for. If they fire everything up regularly, take her out for a gentle cruise occasionally & give her plenty of TLC in between times, then she could be fine, ready to respond whenever wanted. If they leave her totally idle, & just polish the bits that show, she'll be as reliable as Veinticinco de Mayo was.
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Old March 8th, 2008   #51
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More information about the upgrade of the Niteroi class frigate;
http://www.segurancaedefesa.com/ModFrag_update.htm
More on the Niteroi class modenization (MODFRAG):

http://www.naval.com.br/dossie/Niter...oi-parte5.html
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Old March 9th, 2008   #52
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Does anyone know of the future plans for the ex-UK Types 22's, I know that 2 have been placed into reserve, but are there plans to re-activate them and upgrade all 4 now that the Niteroi class upgrade has been completed?
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Old March 9th, 2008   #53
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Does anyone know of the future plans for the ex-UK Types 22's, I know that 2 have been placed into reserve, but are there plans to re-activate them and upgrade all 4 now that the Niteroi class upgrade has been completed?
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I only know of one Type-22 that has been decommissioned. The Dodsworth, F-47 (ex-Brilliant, F-90) was decommissioned in March 2004.

A complete list of all ships and patrol boats can be found here: https://www.mar.mil.br/menu_h/navios/menu_navios.htm

As far as modernization plans for the Type-22, this is not a top priority. At the moment the Brazilian Navy's top priorities are:

1) Submarine force modernization (Mk-48 torps and fire control upgrades)
2) Patrol boat modernization
3) Helicopter modernization (Possible replacement of the SH-3 by SH-60)
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Old May 3rd, 2008   #54
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Are there any plans for a replacement of Para, Brazils single Garcia class DE?
Or will it quietly slip away like the other three ships of her class?

Is she even in any use nowadays?
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Old May 3rd, 2008   #55
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Are there any plans for a replacement of Para, Brazils single Garcia class DE?
Or will it quietly slip away like the other three ships of her class?

Is she even in any use nowadays?
Most likely the CT Para (D 27) will be replaced by the CV Barroso (V 34). The Corvette Barroso started sea trials in April 2008 and is scheduled to be incorporated into the Brazilian fleet by December.

CT Para sits pierside at the Rio de Janeiro Naval Shipyard now-a-days. I doubt she will put to sea anymore.

Interestingly the Brazilian Navy currently has in commission two ships with the name Para. The CT Para (D 27) which is classified a destroyer and the NA Para (U 15) a large catamaran auxiliary support ship for Brazil's Amazon flotilla.

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Old May 3rd, 2008   #56
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Yeah, makes sense, as that corvette isn't really much smaller - and the Para's outfit, other than the ASROC, was obsolete even 15 years ago (when the USN got rid of them).
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Old May 7th, 2008   #57
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Ibsamar

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SA, India, Brazil conduct joint naval exercise

PTI | May 06, 2008 | 15:23 IST

India, Brazil and South Africa have started a 10-day long joint naval exercise in Durban aimed at tackling terrorism at sea.

The exercise called IBSAMAR, which started on Monday along the Cape Town will continue till May 15.

India's INS Mumbai and INS Karmukh will take part in the event, which includes the very basic to the most advanced, and involving submarines and aircraft.

South Africa, India and Brazil, who form part of the new forum IBSA, will sport their biggest frigates and test the latest electronic systems against each other in a simulated war situation.

South African Navy Captain Charl Coetzee said: "We have a series of exercises we'll do at sea, both from surface warfare perspective, boarding and we'll be doing some anti-terrorist drills and flying operations. Over the weekend and in the next week a similar series of exercises will take place between the naval ships of our three countries."

Ajit Kumar, captain of INS Mumbai, said they wanted to share their best practices with the South African and Brazilian navies.

He said the Indian Navy had a wealth of experience in this regard. "For example at the end of 2006 we were able to work with Sri Lankan and Nepalese navies during the Lebanon conflict. We've also played an active role during the tsunami of 2004 where tremendous amount of resources from the Indian Navy was used," he said.

Captain Onias de Castro Lima of Brazil said, "With this exercise we want to obtain better co-operation between our different navies and implement some of the expertise we have in our navy. We intend to share experiences and to share our knowledge in helicopters and with submarines."
The ships involved in the exercises - known as IBSAMAR - are mostly frigates, with Brazilian Naval Ships BNS Independencia and BNS Defensora participating along with Indian Naval Ships INS Mumbai and INS Karmuk.

South Africa's ships include SAS Drakensberg, SAS Umkomaas, SAS Galeshewe, SAS Isaac Dyobha as well as two of the four new frigates, the South African Navy Meko-class A200 Frigate Sub-Guided (FSG) vessels, also known as Corvettes: the SAS Isandlwana and SAS Amatola.
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Old May 7th, 2008   #58
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Frigate Sub-Guided (FSG) vessels
Frigate, Small, Guided-Missile. Standard notation for corvettes.
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Old May 31st, 2008   #59
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The final end to the NAeL Minas Gerais:

http://www.hms-vengeance.co.uk/farewell.htm

http://www.hms-vengeance.co.uk/farewell2.htm
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Old June 11th, 2008   #60
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Seahawks for Brazil

The Brazilian Navy released news that a FMS Letter of Offer and Acceptance with DSCA was signed on 28 May for the purchase of (4) S-70B Seahawk helicopters with an option for two more. The package worth US$300 includes spare engines, parts, training, etc. The Seahawks will begin to replace the navy's Seaking helos. It was not specified, but chances are these will be the MH-60R model. The Brazilian Army and Air Force operate the Blackhawk.
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