This is a discussion on ASW Questions, within the Navy & Maritime forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Originally Posted by contedicavour
Mixing short range SAMs with fast guns into a combined CIWS is becoming quite fashionable lately... ...
Mixing short range SAMs with fast guns into a combined CIWS is becoming quite fashionable lately... Oto Melara of Italy's Finmeccanica has just presented at Bourget a prototype mixing 25mm CIWS with a module for 4 or 6 short range SAMs.
However I'm still a fan of pure SAM (as with RAM) or of heavier calibre guided ammunition guns (as with Vulcano-Strales 76/62 SR with ER ammunition) since the good old "wall of fire" argument 2 or 3 km away from the ship doesn't convince me in the age of very "smart" hypersonic cruise missiles with big warheads that can do a lot of damage even by exploding a km away from the ship...
cheers
Quick off topic question to fulfil my curiosity. Are there any sort of weapon systems designed to deliver torpedo's. I know that they are without a doubt the most effective method of ASW, but are limited by range, so is there some sort of missile system capable of delivering the torpedo to within an engagement range?
Quick off topic question to fulfil my curiosity. Are there any sort of weapon systems designed to deliver torpedo's. I know that they are without a doubt the most effective method of ASW, but are limited by range, so is there some sort of missile system capable of delivering the torpedo to within an engagement range?
ASROC. Anti Submarine ROCket.
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And just what it sounds like - i.e. an unguided rocket that only brings its payload into the rough desired target area. Range isn't that phenomenal either.
The Soviet Union developed a number of guided missiles carrying torpedoes, e.g. URPK-4/-5 (Metel/SS-N-14 Silex, for ships) and RPK-2 (Viyuga/SS-N-15 Starfish, for submarines).
Thanks! Did a little research on YouTube and there didn't appear to be any ASROC weapons of any great range (10+km). Is there a longer range ASROC being developed, has the idea been discarded, what are the limitations of developing a much longer range ASROC weapon? Longer range being harpoon missile ranges (125km).
Thanks! Did a little research on YouTube and there didn't appear to be any ASROC weapons of any great range (10+km). Is there a longer range ASROC being developed, has the idea been discarded, what are the limitations of developing a much longer range ASROC weapon? Longer range being harpoon missile ranges (125km).
Both ASROC and the South Korean variant (K-ASROC) have an unclass range of about 20KM.
There really is not a long ranged ASW weapon because ASW isn't performed at the ranges that anti-surface warfare is performed. A hull mounted set has limited range and any off ship asset (helo or P-3 type aircraft for example) will usually have their own weapon payload.
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I know it is not in use any more, but since tomorrow is Australia Day, I thought I would mention the venerable Ikara missile that had a 10 nm range.
And better still the Ikara could be updated / guided in flight.
Such a shame that system fell by the wayside.
A friend of mine wo served on leanders reckons that in RN service it would have been useless though, the shelter it was mounted in slowed down respose time and made such a racket that any submarine would be well over the horizon and accelerating before a shot was ever got off. Mind you i dont think he really liked the lack of 4.5 inch gun
Both ASROC and the South Korean variant (K-ASROC) have an unclass range of about 20KM.
There really is not a long ranged ASW weapon because ASW isn't performed at the ranges that anti-surface warfare is performed. A hull mounted set has limited range and any off ship asset (helo or P-3 type aircraft for example) will usually have their own weapon payload.
So why, if torpedo's are the most effective anti-surface warfare weapon (in my opinion they are), hasn't any major advancement been made into increasing their range?
All ASROC systems only deliver lightweight or ultra-lightweight ASW torpedoes, not heavyweight ASuW torpedoes.
SS-N-14 is the only one with decent performance against surface ships since it can be used as a regular anti-ship missile, and carries a 185-kg HEAT warhead for this purpose in addition to the lightweight torpedo (with a 60-kg warhead) that it carries for ASW. With some 50 km range it's also the longest-ranged such system.
All ASROC systems only deliver lightweight or ultra-lightweight ASW torpedoes, not heavyweight ASuW torpedoes.
SS-N-14 is the only one with decent performance against surface ships since it can be used as a regular anti-ship missile, and carries a 185-kg HEAT warhead for this purpose in addition to the lightweight torpedo (with a 60-kg warhead) that it carries for ASW. With some 50 km range it's also the longest-ranged such system.
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Thanks! Did a little research on YouTube and there didn't appear to be any ASROC weapons of any great range (10+km). Is there a longer range ASROC being developed, has the idea been discarded, what are the limitations of developing a much longer range ASROC weapon? Longer range being harpoon missile ranges (125km).
Detecting submarines at longer than 20km is very difficult unless its an older one thats noisy as aegisfc said. Not sure if your looking at a very expensive weapon system that you can fire blindly into an area where there might or might not be a sub but I would think this would be the case if your just shooting at random blips beyond the 20-30km range from your ship. The only way I could see this being of use would be if your off hull assets ( helo / anti sub patrol aircraft) were out of ammo (torps / depth charges / mines) and the contact still had not been killed and was still being tracked.
Detecting submarines at longer than 20km is very difficult unless its an older one thats noisy as aegisfc said. Not sure if your looking at a very expensive weapon system that you can fire blindly into an area where there might or might not be a sub but I would think this would be the case if your just shooting at random blips beyond the 20-30km range from your ship. The only way I could see this being of use would be if your off hull assets ( helo / anti sub patrol aircraft) were out of ammo (torps / depth charges / mines) and the contact still had not been killed and was still being tracked.
Yeh, I guess subs really do cover everything these days. I was thinking of the possibility of using an ASROC type system to engage and destroy surface contacts. I'd known that torpedo's were effective against surface contacts and was just looking at a way around the range problem.
JMSDF has been equipping its ships with new Type 07 ASROC, which has longer range and speed than its predecessor. It uses inertial guidance and Type 97 torpedo as warhead.
With sub-searching being conducted more and more by onboard helicopters, they felt they needed more range on their ASROC.
Stand off ASW weapons probably make more sense when talking about stand off ASW sensors. Likely we will see a resurgence in interest once ships start deploying ROVs with the appropriate sensors at tens of NM from the parent ship.
Quick off topic question to fulfil my curiosity. Are there any sort of weapon systems designed to deliver torpedo's. I know that they are without a doubt the most effective method of ASW, but are limited by range, so is there some sort of missile system capable of delivering the torpedo to within an engagement range?
I dont know what your point but there are many torpedo control system in the naval warship with different name and torpedo types
