Anzac Ship upgrades for Australia

[Todjaeger]

Per project SEA 1448 Anti Ship Missle Defence Phase 2B, the Anzac class frigates in service in Australia are to be fitted with an Australian Active Phased Radar array. Are there any images of a vessel fitted with the CEAFAR array? Also, I wonder what the capabilities of the array are, could the array be linked to an AEGIS system, or is the radar not that capable. Also, any word on fitting a BAE Systems Mk 45 Mod 4 127mm naval gun?

 

[Sea Toby]

From naval-technology.com:
The first phase includes the upgrade of the command and control system to the Saab 9LV Mk 3E and the installation of the Sagem Vampir NG infrared search and track (IRST) system for the detection and tracking of low-level aircraft and anti-ship missiles. The first upgraded vessel will be delivered in 2008 and work will be completed by 2012.

In September 2005, the RAN selected the CEA Technologies CEA-FAR 3D E/F band, fixed active phased array radar for improved fire control against anti-ship missiles. The radar will enter service from 2009.

Seasparrow has been replaced by the Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile (ESSM) in HMAS Warramunga, Stuart and Parramatta, increasing the capacity from eight to 32 missiles, and the weapon system was declared operational on these vessels in June 2004. ESSM will be retrofitted in the first two Australian ships. HMAS Warramunga was the first vessel in the world to be fitted with the ESSM.

Capacity to launch eight Boeing Harpoon anti-ship missiles is to be added under Project SEA 1348. Anzac will be fitted with Harpoon Block II missiles, which have new inertial/GPS (Global Positioning System) guidance for precision targeting, and will be among the first vessels to have the new missile.

The main gun is a BAE Systems Land & Armaments (formerly United Defense) 127mm Mk 45 Mod 2 gun, which can fire at a rate of 20 rounds a minute to a range of over 20km.

This link should provide a picture of the CEA-FAR fixed active phased array radar I think.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...asedarray-radars-move-to-next-stage/index.php

 

[Aussie Digger]

Per project SEA 1448 Anti Ship Missle Defence Phase 2B, the Anzac class frigates in service in Australia are to be fitted with an Australian Active Phased Radar array. Are there any images of a vessel fitted with the CEAFAR array? Also, I wonder what the capabilities of the array are, could the array be linked to an AEGIS system, or is the radar not that capable. Also, any word on fitting a BAE Systems Mk 45 Mod 4 127mm naval gun?

Pretty much everything you need to know about ANZAC ship upgrades can be found here:

http://www.ausmarinetech.com.au/index.php

Specifically in relation to the Mod 4 gun, info can be found here:


http://www.ausmarinetech.com.au/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1141106725&archive=&start_from=&ucat=2&page=article

The short answer? I wouldn't hold my breath. Once ALL the vessels are upgraded with Harpoon II, ESSM, MU-90, CEA-FAR, CEA-MOUNT, Vampire IRST, the new SAAB combat system and whatever helicopter is chosen, is integrated along with whatever weapons and kit it will operate, the RAN will have very capable frigates.

The AWD's and LHD's will also just about be online by then. The RAN's focus will very much be on getting these into service rather than upgrading the ANZAC's yet again. The ANZAC's "may" get a Mod 4 upgrade to bring them into line with the AWD's once all that is achieved, but it may not be worth it by then, as they likely only have a few years service left...

 

[Markus40]

Will NZ get the same upgrade?

Pretty much everything you need to know about ANZAC ship upgrades can be found here:

http://www.ausmarinetech.com.au/index.php

Specifically in relation to the Mod 4 gun, info can be found here:


http://www.ausmarinetech.com.au/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1141106725&archive=&start_from=&ucat=2&page=article

The short answer? I wouldn't hold my breath. Once ALL the vessels are upgraded with Harpoon II, ESSM, MU-90, CEA-FAR, CEA-MOUNT, Vampire IRST, the new SAAB combat system and whatever helicopter is chosen, is integrated along with whatever weapons and kit it will operate, the RAN will have very capable frigates.

The AWD's and LHD's will also just about be online by then. The RAN's focus will very much be on getting these into service rather than upgrading the ANZAC's yet again. The ANZAC's "may" get a Mod 4 upgrade to bring them into line with the AWD's once all that is achieved, but it may not be worth it by then, as they likely only have a few years service left...

 

[stryker NZ]

i doubt the NZ government would stretch out for such an upgrade as far as i know well be lucky to get the ESSM. which is sad i think the NZ ANZACS should at least get the harpoons as well

 

[NZLAV]

Well the budget is around 500mil-600mil so I think we'll get ESSM and harpoon II. any thoughts?

 

[stryker NZ]

i would really like to see the harpoons installed but in reality i dont think it will happen the government just dosnt seem to be interested. but it does say on their website that the ESSMs will be put on the ANZACs sometime in the near furture (3-4 years)

 

[Todjaeger]

From what I've read, the NZ Anzacs are (were? not sure if the date has changed) to be fitted with Quadpack ESSM starting in 2008. I'm not sure if the same CEA Mount Illuminator is to be used though. As for the fitting of Harpoons, I haven't read anything suggesting that and I think it unlikely to happen. Currently NZ doesn't operate the Harpoon, despite the Orion being one of the normal platforms, instead using the Maverick AGM which is normally used in a ground-attack role. Somehow I don't think the US would want to sell Harpoons to NZ, so I suppose it's a good thing the RNZN doesn't seem interested. Sad, really.

From what I've read, in addition to the CEAFAR trials, there are also plans to install 2 RAM CIWS, but I haven't seen any timeframe for this project yet. Does anyone know if the space/weight reserved for a 2nd VLS will be used? I know when the design was initially selected it was planned to add Harpoon later, but I'm not sure if the planned 2nd VLS was for use by the Harpoon or additional SAMs like Sea Sparrow or Standard.

While I don't think adding 8 Standard SM-2 or 3 and a phased radar array like CEAFAR would greatly increase the escort/air-defence ability of the Anzac, another 8 cells of ESSM in Quadpacks is another story. Any thoughts on this?

 

[Big-E]

While I don't think adding 8 Standard SM-2 or 3 and a phased radar array like CEAFAR would greatly increase the escort/air-defence ability of the Anzac, another 8 cells of ESSM in Quadpacks is another story. Any thoughts on this?

This statement is silly... of course the addition of AEGIS radar and weapon suites will make them better AW ships. What good are ESSM without the 3D radar to guide them? You might as well shoot SM-1 if your not going to bother upgrading the radar.

 

[Todjaeger]

This statement is silly... of course the addition of AEGIS radar and weapon suites will make them better AW ships.

Sorry, I realised after I typed it that people might misconstrue what I meant.
The addition of a phased array on the Anzac would of course improve it's abilities.

While I don't think adding 8 Standard SM-2 or 3 and a phased radar array like CEAFAR would greatly increase the escort/air-defence ability of the Anzac, another 8 cells of ESSM in Quadpacks is another story. Any thoughts on this?

What I meant was, after installing CEAFAR or some other similar type array and the 2nd Mk-41 8 cell VLS, it makes more sense to me to use the added cells to carry more ESSM in Quadpacks, than to give Anzac the ability to carry SM-2. I see greater value in an Anzac with 64 ESSM, as opposed to 32 ESSM and 8 SM-2. Particularly since the SM-2 once used cannot be replenished until the vessel docks.

Let's take the idea a step further. Assuming a phased array is deployed onto the Anzacs, and as planned 2 RAM launchers (21 missles each) are added for CIWS, which configuration should be selected for air defence?
1. 16 Mk-41 VLS cells, each holding a Quadpack ESSM, 64 missle total
2. 16 Mk-41 VLS cells, each holding a SM-2 Standard, 16 missles total
3. 8 Mk-41 VLS cells, holding Quadpack ESSM (32 ESSM) & 8 Mk-41 VLS cells, holding 8 SM-2 Standard, total of 40 missles.

 

[Aussie Digger]

From what I've read, in addition to the CEAFAR trials, there are also plans to install 2 RAM CIWS, but I haven't seen any timeframe for this project yet. Does anyone know if the space/weight reserved for a 2nd VLS will be used? I know when the design was initially selected it was planned to add Harpoon later, but I'm not sure if the planned 2nd VLS was for use by the Harpoon or additional SAMs like Sea Sparrow or Standard.

While I don't think adding 8 Standard SM-2 or 3 and a phased radar array like CEAFAR would greatly increase the escort/air-defence ability of the Anzac, another 8 cells of ESSM in Quadpacks is another story. Any thoughts on this?

The ANZAC "anti-ship missile defence" upgrade is underway and some decisions have been made (inclusion of CEA-FAR 3D radar, CEA-MOUNT illuminator, Vampire IRST) a few remain to be made. This includes the "2nd layer" SAM system (the most often talked about system is "Mistral" but no decision has been made) and the additional Mk 41 VLS cells for ESSM.

The CEA-FAR 3D radar will greatly increase the anti-air capability of the ANZAC frigates. Along with CEA-MOUNT illuminators and the upgraded fire control system It will allow each vessel "multiple" channels of fire, meaning that many SAM's can be controlled simultaneously, as opposed to the current situation where only 1 missile can be guided at a time.

The original upgrade plan was to introduce a "2nd channel of fire" and allow 2 missiles to be fired and guided simultaneously. The capability and availabilty of a "compact" 3D radar system has superseded this requirement though and this is why the decision has been delayed on whether to include a second type of SAM system. It remains to be seen whether it will even be needed.

If it is not, I'd imagine the 2nd Mk 41 VLS cells would be installed to boost ESSM numbers to 64 in the magazines...

I do not think SM-2 would be included on the ANZAC's. It was looked at during the early "WIP" stages and rejected. I think the most likely configuration will be 1x Mk 41 VLS with 8x "quad-packed" ESSM (32x missiles in total) and 1 or 2 "2nd" layer SAM systems (Mistral or RAM/SeaRAM) or 2x Mk41 VLS with 8x "quad-packed" ESSM (64x missiles in total) and no "2nd layer" system.

The 3D phased array radar is an absolute "given" unless it turns out to be a "wet fish" and this is unlikely given all reports...

 

[Grand Danois]

1. 16 Mk-41 VLS cells, each holding a Quadpack ESSM, 64 missle total
2. 16 Mk-41 VLS cells, each holding a SM-2 Standard, 16 missles total
3. 8 Mk-41 VLS cells, holding Quadpack ESSM (32 ESSM) & 8 Mk-41 VLS cells, holding 8 SM-2 Standard, total of 40 missles.

I'd choose 3. as 32 ESSM ought to be adequate for self defence, which they're meant for and the 8 SM-2 adds a limited area air defence capability, which you don't have with only the ESSM.

Example. The Danish Navy prefers to have 24 ESSM + 32 LR SAM's on their planned frigates and have 32 ESSM on their Absalons.

 

[Aussie Digger]

I'd choose 3. as 32 ESSM ought to be adequate for self defence, which they're meant for and the 8 SM-2 adds a limited area air defence capability, which you don't have with only the ESSM.

Example. The Danish Navy prefers to have 24 ESSM + 32 LR SAM's on their planned frigates and have 32 ESSM on their Absalons.

ESSM has virtually identical capacity as that of the SM-1 in terms of range. It thus allows you a "de-facto" area air warfare capacity and given the ANZAC's role as a "light frigate" I'd rather enhance it's defensive capacity and concentrate on it's anti-surface and anti-submarine duties, particularly when the AWD's come online. THEY are going to be the primary anti-air asset. With limited resources, duplication with such limited benefit is hardly affordable for us...

 

[Grand Danois]

ESSM has virtually identical capacity as that of the SM-1 in terms of range. It thus allows you a "de-facto" area air warfare capacity and given the ANZAC's role as a "light frigate" I'd rather enhance it's defensive capacity and concentrate on it's anti-surface and anti-submarine duties, particularly when the AWD's come online. THEY are going to be the primary anti-air asset. With limited resources, duplication with such limited benefit is hardly affordable for us...

You're right that ESSM probably even has a longer range than the SM-1 which I didn't use as a benchmark for area air defence. I had escort duties in mind, and if the ANZACs are better used in the ASuW and ASW roles then they would probably be alright with 32 ESSM + RAM/CIWS?

It might just be me that thinks not utilising CEAFAR/CEAMOUNT to its fullest is sad.

Slightly off topic, and then not. Three AWD's are precious few for that huge area RAN has to cover...

 

[Todjaeger]

I think the most likely configuration will be 1x Mk 41 VLS with 8x "quad-packed" ESSM (32x missiles in total) and 1 or 2 "2nd" layer SAM systems (Mistral or RAM/SeaRAM) or 2x Mk41 VLS with 8x "quad-packed" ESSM (64x missiles in total) and no "2nd layer" system.

As I understood it, a form of CIWS was to be added, with space and weight reserved for that purpose, separate from the 2nd VLS. I believe the discussion was on which CIWS to go with, the 20mm Phalanx, a system like the 30mm Goalkeeper, or RAM. Given the operational availability issues the US has had with their Phalanx systems, and the question on whether a 20mm system would be effective engaging antiship missles, I thought RAM was chosen.

I'd choose 3. as 32 ESSM ought to be adequate for self defence, which they're meant for and the 8 SM-2 adds a limited area air defence capability, which you don't have with only the ESSM.

Example. The Danish Navy prefers to have 24 ESSM + 32 LR SAM's on their planned frigates and have 32 ESSM on their Absalons.

If the Anzac had the capacity for more SM-2, I'd say that would make sense, but 8 isn't all that much. Particularly when 2-3 might be fired to guarantee kills. In order to accomplish the missle arrangement you mention, a total of 30 VLS cells would need to be added, there is only room for 8.

ESSM has virtually identical capacity as that of the SM-1 in terms of range.

From the info I have from Jane's, the range on a SM-1 Standard was out to 46km, and the range on the RIM-7 Sea Sparrow was only 14.6km. What's the approximate range for ESSM?

 

[Aussie Digger]

You're right that ESSM probably even has a longer range than the SM-1 which I didn't use as a benchmark for area air defence. I had escort duties in mind, and if the ANZACs are better used in the ASuW and ASW roles then they would probably be alright with 32 ESSM + RAM/CIWS?

It might just be me that thinks not utilising CEAFAR/CEAMOUNT to its fullest is sad.

Slightly off topic, and then not. Three AWD's are precious few for that huge area RAN has to cover...

True, which is why RAN has a "blueprint" of 3+3 AWD's, it's just that only 3x AWD's have been funded so far. Hopefully once the initial 3 are well underway and the FFG's are starting to look a bit "long in the tooth" that Government might come round to RAN's way of thinking... :tasty

 

[Grand Danois]

If the Anzac had the capacity for more SM-2, I'd say that would make sense, but 8 isn't all that much. Particularly when 2-3 might be fired to guarantee kills. In order to accomplish the missle arrangement you mention, a total of 30 VLS cells would need to be added, there is only room for 8.

From the info I have from Jane's, the range on a SM-1 Standard was out to 46km, and the range on the RIM-7 Sea Sparrow was only 14.6km. What's the approximate range for ESSM?

That's why I said "limited." area air defence.

ESSM range should be 20 NM which should basically cover the sensor horizon vs sea skimming ASM's. I suspect that is why ASTER 15 has a similar range.

EDIT: Globalsecurity says 30 NM+ range for the ESSM.

 

[Aussie Digger]

As I understood it, a form of CIWS was to be added, with space and weight reserved for that purpose, separate from the 2nd VLS. I believe the discussion was on which CIWS to go with, the 20mm Phalanx, a system like the 30mm Goalkeeper, or RAM. Given the operational availability issues the US has had with their Phalanx systems, and the question on whether a 20mm system would be effective engaging antiship missles, I thought RAM was chosen.

If the Anzac had the capacity for more SM-2, I'd say that would make sense, but 8 isn't all that much. Particularly when 2-3 might be fired to guarantee kills. In order to accomplish the missle arrangement you mention, a total of 30 VLS cells would need to be added, there is only room for 8.

From the info I have from Jane's, the range on a SM-1 Standard was out to 46km, and the range on the RIM-7 Sea Sparrow was only 14.6km. What's the approximate range for ESSM?

There is quite a bit of "space and weight" available on the ANZAC's for additional weapons etc. An early design I saw included the 2x 4 Harpoon canisters on the No 2 deck (behind the bridge) which allowed an additional Mk 41 VLS system to be mounted foward of the bridge but before the Mk 45 Mod 2. Giving a total (potential) of 24x cells in 3x Mk 41 VLS's per ship.

SM-2 might have been handy then with 16x cells devoted to SM-2 and 8x devoted to "quad" ESSM's.

As to the CIWS issue, as I understand it, Phalanx could be integrated quite quickly (a matter of hours if not days) if necessary as the major parts required (baseplate etc) are already installed. The fact that this has never been done though even on numerous operational deployments, shows A) how confident RAN must be in ESSM and B) the sort of confidence it has in Phalanx, as RAN has plenty of Phalanx systems it COULD deploy aboard an ANZAC frigate if it wanted to.

As to the ASMD upgrade a "2nd layer" "very short ranged air defence" (VSRAD) system was to be included under the original "2nd channel of fire" proposal I mentioned earlier. No definite system was officially announced by Government or RAN, but it was widely reported within Australian Defence and Defence Industry circles that the "Mistral" missile (in either SIMBAD or SADRAL form) was the likely system.

Now that this "2nd channel of fire" capability is to be greatly exceeded by the 3D radar with it's "multiple channels of fire" capability, RAN is reportedly now re-assessing whether it needs the 2nd VSRAD capability anymore.

The thinking behind this is that since the new radar/combat system combo can control numerous missiles simultaneously, can ESSM do the job all by itself and given that ESSM is far more capable than RAM, Mistral or any other such system, would this then be sufficient for RAN's total ASMD needs???

I can't provide a quoted source for the range of ESSM, but it is often stated in articles that ESSM has a similar, if not greater range the SM-1. To get to the ESSM standard, the Sea Sparrow missile was (amongst other things) modified with a significantly larger rocket motor, hence the claims of it's greater range...

 

[Grand Danois]

There is quite a bit of "space and weight" available on the ANZAC's for additional weapons etc. An early design I saw included the 2x 4 Harpoon canisters on the No 2 deck (behind the bridge) which allowed an additional Mk 41 VLS system to be mounted foward of the bridge but before the Mk 45 Mod 2. Giving a total (potential) of 24x cells in 3x Mk 41 VLS's per ship.

SM-2 might have been handy then with 16x cells devoted to SM-2 and 8x devoted to "quad" ESSM's.

As to the CIWS issue, as I understand it, Phalanx could be integrated quite quickly (a matter of hours if not days) if necessary as the major parts required (baseplate etc) are already installed. The fact that this has never been done though even on numerous operational deployments, shows A) how confident RAN must be in ESSM and B) the sort of confidence it has in Phalanx, as RAN has plenty of Phalanx systems it COULD deploy aboard an ANZAC frigate if it wanted to.

As to the ASMD upgrade a "2nd layer" "very short ranged air defence" (VSRAD) system was to be included under the original "2nd channel of fire" proposal I mentioned earlier. No definite system was officially announced by Government or RAN, but it was widely reported within Australian Defence and Defence Industry circles that the "Mistral" missile (in either SIMBAD or SADRAL form) was the likely system.

Now that this "2nd channel of fire" capability is to be greatly exceeded by the 3D radar with it's "multiple channels of fire" capability, RAN is reportedly now re-assessing whether it needs the 2nd VSRAD capability anymore.

The thinking behind this is that since the new radar/combat system combo can control numerous missiles simultaneously, can ESSM do the job all by itself and given that ESSM is far more capable than RAM, Mistral or any other such system, would this then be sufficient for RAN's total ASMD needs???

I can't provide a quoted source for the range of ESSM, but it is often stated in articles that ESSM has a similar, if not greater range the SM-1. To get to the ESSM standard, the Sea Sparrow missile was (amongst other things) modified with a significantly larger rocket motor, hence the claims of it's greater range...

Hmmm, yes. That is a quite strong case for the ESSM vs RAM/CIWS. Especially considering how the Phalanx has fared in real world use...

Redundancy is still nice, though.

 

[Aussie Digger]

Hmmm, yes. That is a quite strong case for the ESSM vs RAM/CIWS. Especially considering how the Phalanx has fared in real world use...

Redundancy is still nice, though.

Agreed. Personally I'd be pretty happy with an extra SEA-RAM launcher on the back of each ANZAC frigate in addition to the current plan. What happens if the new 3D radar mast suffers significant battle damage at or BELOW the phased array panels level and "knocks" them all out? Hope the "mini-typhoons" can knock out an ASM???

At least an automatic SEA-RAM launcher up the back of the ship may provide "some" degree of protection, independant of the primary detection and control sensors...