3 submarines damaged by earthquake | IN, USN and PLAN

[srirangan]

http://www.newsinsight.net/nati2.asp?recno=3104

30 December 2004: Three submarines of the Indian, US and Chinese navies were damaged by the earthquake off Sumatra that triggered of killer tsunamis in Asia, and while two submarines have returned to their bases, there is no intelligence on the Chinese vessel.

Top sources said that while the American submarine was the first to record the intensity of the tremor, because of advanced sonographic sensors, and dashed off nearly ten messages to its headquarters in California and Pacific base in Hawaii, the Indian vessel was to first to identify the earthquake, but its signal to its mainland base did not produce realtime reaction.

"Both the US and Chinese submarines reported a ‘strange undersea development’,� said a diplomat, “but only the Indian submarine got it right the first time, but it was impossible for the base to react fast enough, and if it could, the tragedy of such proportions could have been minimised.�

Diplomats say that all three submarines were in the vicinity of the epicentre, and that they could have been flipped over by the quake, suffering damages in the process.

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..................

An intelligence report that got reported on the NewsInsight.net. You are advised to take it with a pinch of salt, but the source has proved its credentials over a period of time now. It says all three subs were near the epicenter in Sumatra. Indian, Chinese and American subs so close to each other that too in Indonesian waters .. why?

[adsH]

"""the Indian vessel was to first to identify the earthquake, but its signal to its mainland base did not produce realtime reaction



Indian Military really has to work on its C&C and internal communications, it's not just enough to have an email system that everyone can use, this is very common in large organizations, i think the Indian Business (commercial) sector can help out the indian forces in this matter, it not about pride, its about effectiveness of an origination, and commercial Orgs depend on being efficient.

[srirangan]

That wouldn't matter adsH. As you probably would know, realtime and on the fly responces can be generated by automated systems only; and wherever human beings are involved realtime responces can never be guarunteed.

The reaction time was 120 seconds for the IN, the quake struck and within 2 minutes the Tsunami lashed Andaman and Nicobar Islands. Once the Tsunami hit the islands all communication from them would've gotten destroyed, and the news would've been hard to reach soon enough to the mainland.

Then in the next 45 minutes the waves crashed the coastline. Could an evacuation been done in those 120 seconds? How could an evacuation been done in those 45 minutes when all communications from the island failed?

The solution is to integrate the coastline with a warning system, such a system has now been ordered for the East and West coasts. Hopefully that should provide a cover for the future.

[adsH]

thats true human factor does slow down the system, Effective logistics weren't in place for a mass evacuation, what was the water reach into the Mainland i think it was 1 or two mile inwards, i think due to changing pattern of earth, i would think villages being setup should at the least be inshore and should maintain 5-10 mile distance from the Sea.

[srirangan]

Yep. You just can't evacuate the entire coastline (India's coasts are horrendously long) in a matter of 45 minutes. Add to this the fact that a Tsunami had never hit us before. Really not much could've been done pre-emptively.

[Superbug]

A PLAN sub in Indian Ocean? must be a nuclear sub then. Any further detail about that sub?

[srirangan]

Originally Posted by Superbug

A PLAN sub in Indian Ocean? must be a nuclear sub then. Any further detail about that sub?

Sorry I fail to see the link. Why should a Chinese sub in the Indian Ocean have to be a nuclear submarine?

[Superbug]

I thought convenational sub's usually don't venture beyong 1000 mautical miles or so from their bases. Please correct if i am wrong.

[adsH]

Originally Posted by Superbug

I thought convenational sub's usually don't venture beyong 1000 mautical miles or so from their bases. Please correct if i am wrong.

Nope Conventional subs have longer ranges too(1000 is not much), but i'm sure if it was a nuke sub, it must of either returned home without giving any explanation for its presence in that region. i'm sure if it was down you would see an enourmous Chinese presence in that region. We (UK, RN) have Sub rescue ships that we did use to retrieve a Russian sub a few years back, i'm sure UK would of offered help.

[gf0012-aust]

Originally Posted by Superbug

I thought convenational sub's usually don't venture beyong 1000 mautical miles or so from their bases. Please correct if i am wrong.

The publicy declared range of the Collins Class is 8000km. It's a conventional.

AIP subs and their equivalents are only limited by food reserves and other consumables.

There are a couple of submarine detection grids in that region. India would have known that a Chinese sub was near the Andomans. The US sub may have been doing whats called a "shad hack". They used to do it to Russian subs (and vice versa)

[Pendekar]

What's shad hack?

[highsea]

gf is referring to the practice of shadowing each other's subs. The USSR and the US did this extensively during the cold war days. Basically you try to gain as much intel on the other guy and hang with him as long as you can without being detected. You try to learn as much about the opponent as possible, the habits of the Captain, the acoustic signatures of each boat, sigint, etc.

All subs do it.

[Pendekar]

So who do you think shadowing who? there's three subs in close proximity (i presumed). Do u think that India and US subs might unknowingly tracking the same quary?

What do u think Chinese sub doing so far from their base? probably peeking on the new indian base perhaps.

[Nighthawk]

So who do you think shadowing who? there's three subs in close proximity (i presumed). Do u think that India and US subs might unknowingly tracking the same quary?

Well the US could be shadowing either, just because you shadow someone doesn't mean you have hostile intentions. You can always use the information and gain leverage with it or use it in general.

The Indians probably wouldn't waste their resources on tracking the US since they wouldn't gain anything from it (No cause of hostile intent between the two).So the Indians were probably after the Chinese one.

The Chinese once again could have been after either of the other two.

This ofcourse is pure speculation.For all we know, the subs may not have been tracking each other at all and the US and Indian ones may have been on routine patrol. The Chinese sub could very well have been on the other side of the Malacca straits and still register an anamoly on it's sensors due to the Tsunami.

[gf0012-aust]

Originally Posted by Pendekar

So who do you think shadowing who? there's three subs in close proximity (i presumed). Do u think that India and US subs might unknowingly tracking the same quary?

What do u think Chinese sub doing so far from their base? probably peeking on the new indian base perhaps.

My guess:

IN Sub gate guarding
PLAN sub testing Andomans security and surveilling (it is after all a Headquarters for one of the IN Regional Commands
US sub hacking the PLAN sub