Iran missile development and news

[hovercraft]

Iran fires missile that can evade radar: TV




By Parinoosh Arami
Reuters
Friday, March 31, 2006; 9:48 AM
TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran's armed forces on Friday successfully test fired a domestically produced missile which can evade radar, state television reported, a development analysts said could be worrying for Western forces in the Gulf.
Western nations have been watching developments in Iran's missile capabilities with concern amid a standoff over the Iranian nuclear program, which the West says is aimed at building atomic bombs. Iran says the program is civilian.
"The missile command of the air force of the Revolutionary Guards has successfully tested a new generation of missiles," Hossein Salami, head of the Revolutionary Guards air force, told state television.
"This missile can evade radar and it can evade anti-missile missiles," he said.
"This technology is completely new, without copying any other missile systems that may exist in other countries," he said, adding that the missile could carry multiple warheads.
Television had said the type of missile tested was called Fajr-3 but Salami did not name the new weapon or give the missile's range, saying it depended on the warhead weight. He said it was a defensive weapon.
The U.S.-based military affairs Web site globalsecurity.org describes the Fajr-3 as a 240 mm artillery rocket with a 25-mile range, one of a group of light rockets Iran has developed mainly for tactical use on the battlefield.
However, it also says Iran has been working on another missile, called the Kosar, that would be undetectable by radar and designed to sink ships in the Gulf.
"WORRYING FOR WEST"
Accompanying the report of the test, state television showed footage of a single missile being launched from land. The television report also described it as a "long-range missile."
Iranian officials could not be reached for more details.
Lee Willett, head of the military capabilities program at London's Royal United Services Institute, a defense think-tank, said the missile could be a worry for Western navies in the Gulf, wary of threats that could cut off shipping lanes.
"It is potentially a significant issue for coalition forces in the Gulf because there is a very important focus amongst the coalition navies on maritime security operations both at and from the sea, with a particular interest in what is happening from Iran," Willett said.
The test was part of a week of Iranian naval manoeuvres that started on Friday and were due to take place in the Gulf and Sea of Oman. Ground and air forces are also taking part in the wargames to show Iran's "defensive capabilities," the official IRNA news agency reported.
Diplomats in Europe said this month that Iran was stepping up development of missiles capable of carrying atomic warheads. An Iranian official denied the charge.
The diplomats, citing an intelligence report, said the program included plans to arm Iran's Shahab-3 missiles, which experts believe has a maximum range of around 2,000 km (1,240 miles), with nuclear warheads.
Experts say North Korea has been key to Iran's missile development. A German diplomat in February said Iran has purchased 18 disassembled BM-25 missiles with a range of about 2,500 km from North Korea.
The Iranian exiled opposition group, the National Council of Resistance in Iran, has also said Iran was working on developing so-called Ghadr missiles, with a range of up to 3,000 km (1,864 miles).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/31/AR2006033100614.html


Admin: As per forum rules, please add your own comments and input when posting news items. News Items without comment are not permitted. Please amend this post ASAP.

Admin: As per forum rules, please add your own comments and input when posting news items. News Items without comment are not permitted. Please amend this post ASAP.

ok sir i am adding my comments,

"This missile can evade radar and it can evade anti-missile missiles," he said.
"This technology is completely new, without copying any other missile systems that may exist in other countries," he said, adding that the missile could carry multiple warheads.

is this missile looks ballistic missile or a cruise missile with multiple warheads, ballistic missile can evade from radar and missile defence system, is it possible?
and is the iran is looking advanced in this kind of technology, IRBM/MRBM with multiple warheads?

 

[Scorpius]

kind of find it hard to believe this.

 

[Rich]

I cant find any supporting material on this but it sounds to me like Iran tested the IRBM they have been working on that is armed with the warhead BUS that can maneuver independently. Such a IRBM, with its second rocket motor, will be very difficult for an ABM system to shoot down. I mentioned this evolving Iranian system before here and it looks like they are working out the problems with it.

Even worse is the missiles targeting package which is suspected to be a sophisticated INS with GPS backup package. While this missile is not "stealth" as the media portrays, "it should more correctly be termed ABM evading", it is a dangerous weapon and has a suspected eventual CEP of 30 to 50 meters.

A "defensive weapon"?:drunk1 Yeah....right! This missile is designed for a first strike and it will shortly be in the hands of religious fanatics. It makes me wish for the days when I was walking around a hot-loaded B-52 during the Cold War.

 

[hovercraft]

Iran claims world's fastest underwater missile

(Filed: 02/04/2006)
Iran says it has test fired the world's fastest underwater missile during a week of war games in the Gulf, according to reports.
A caption on the country's state television said: "The world's fastest underwater missile was successfully test fired on the third day of the 'Holy Prophet war games'."
Western nations have been watching developments in Iran's missile capabilities with interest amid concerns over Teheran's nuclear programme.
The West says Iran is attempting to build atomic bombs but the country insists the programme is civilian.
On Friday, Iran's armed forces said they had successfully test fired a domestically produced missile from land which could evade radar.
Iranian state television had said that missile was called Fajr-3.
Hossein Salami, head of the Revolutionary Guards air force, did not name the new weapon or give the missile's range, saying it depended on the warhead weight

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/04/02/uiran.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/04/02/ixportaltop.html

a video shown on PTV, missile was fired from ship, it has under water speed of 100ms per second 1/3 of speed of sound, range undisclosed, they said this missile is designed to destroy huge ships and submarines.

 

[Black Legion]

With all do respect to Iranian scientist, their $9 billion defence budget and their engineers, development of such a sophisticated and advance missile is a bit out of their grasp to be a fully independent Iranian project. My opinion is that Russians or/and China are providing key intel through underground channels in order for Iran to develop such a missile so the Russians could first hand get an insight how the same/similar weapon as theirs would prove effective against the US forces in an actual combat. And am I wrong to think that the super-fast propulsion system of the Iranian underwater missile is awfully similar to the Russian high speed 'rocket' torpedo code-name Shkval?

And if this weapon is true, I don't think it's offensive, they've got their Shahab-3 and Ukranian XM-15's for offence purposes, aim of this weapon would primarily be aimed against US submarines and carrier groups in the Persian Gulf in my opinion.

 

[Hussain]

Is the term underwater 'missile' the correct terminology to use for this weapon?


I don't think it really matters too much if new Iranian weapons systems are completely indigenous or not. The fact is that Iran has got a robust military force at present? No one completely understands the true potential of the Iranian military? If the missiles are as good as they are then they will act as a counter to Iran's outdated airforce? At the same time it is also difficult to determine what the Iranian airforce capabilities are so if the US or its allies decide to attack Iran then the US and its allies will suffer heavy casualties in the region. I think its time for governments to act rationally, diplomatically to resolve issues of concern to all parties.

 

[aaaditya]

With all do respect to Iranian scientist, their $9 billion defence budget and their engineers, development of such a sophisticated and advance missile is a bit out of their grasp to be a fully independent Iranian project. My opinion is that Russians or/and China are providing key intel through underground channels in order for Iran to develop such a missile so the Russians could first hand get an insight how the same/similar weapon as theirs would prove effective against the US forces in an actual combat. And am I wrong to think that the super-fast propulsion system of the Iranian underwater missile is awfully similar to the Russian high speed 'rocket' torpedo code-name Shkval?

And if this weapon is true, I don't think it's offensive, they've got their Shahab-3 and Ukranian XM-15's for offence purposes, aim of this weapon would primarily be aimed against US submarines and carrier groups in the Persian Gulf in my opinion.

i believe that it is a different weapon indigenously developed by iran,in an indian newspaper their spokesperson had claimed that this underwater missile is the second fastest after the one developed by another country(though he didnt name it i believe it would be the russian shkval),he also claime that its speed is around 360 kms/hr(shkval is claimed to have 400kms/hr+).

though i cant understand that stealth aspect of this rocket and what sort of guidance system it uses,by the way does anyone have an idea of what sort of guidance system is used on the shkval ,iam sure that would give us a fair idea about the one on the iranian rocket.

 

[hovercraft]

The missile looks too much fast and noisy, is this thing would not effects on efficiency of missile sensors?
On other side, Iran tested this missile again and Iran says more missile tests expected within few days.

 

[hovercraft]

Iran tests ‘flying boat’ and land-to-sea missile

TEHRAN: Iran successfully tested a “super-modern flying boat” on Tuesday and the land-to-sea Kowsar missile that military analysts say is designed to sink ships in the Gulf, state media reported.

The tests came in the middle of Gulf war games that started on Friday. Iranian state radio said the Kowsar could evade radar and that its guidance system could not be scrambled. The Defence Ministry was not immediately able to give details of a “flying boat” that was shown on television.

The small propeller-driven aircraft floated on a trimaran hull until it took off and flew low over the surface of the water. State television said it could reach speeds of 100 knots. “A super-modern flying boat was successfully tested in the Great Prophet war game in Persian Gulf waters,” state television said. “Because of its hull’s advanced design, no radar at sea or in the air can locate it. It can lift out of the water. It is wholly domestically built and can launch missiles with precise targeting while moving.” An aviation website showed the vessel shared features with WIGE vehicles, known to Russians as ekranoplanes. A State Department spokesman said on Monday that Iran’s test-firing of what it called a highly destructive torpedo, atop tensions over Iran’s nuclear ambitions, is a “concern”. Agencies

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006%5C04%5C05%5Cstory_5-4-2006_pg1_6

 

[Rich]

Last I heard on the Shkval rocket torpedo is it flys blind and straight ahead unless its in slow speed homing mode, at which time it has a sonar seeker guidance. This is, after all, the very torpedo that blew up the Russian missile submarine in the Barents sea. AND the very reason why the Russians cloaked it in such secrecy, even refusing outside help that could have saved some of the crew.

Both the Germans and we Yanks have supercavitating weapons programs. The German weapon is called "Barracuda" and is twice as fast as the Russian shvkal. Ours is cloaked in secrecy and "probably" has a weapon in eval status. One at the least comparable to the German torp. Our program is also geared towards producing a "speed of sound" submarine.

Future American torpedoes will not only be at least 5 times faster then current ones. They will networkcentric, will be extremely hard to detect until they are on you ,and will employ advanced passive homing systems. Eventually they will be fired by un-manned underwater vessels that will be deployed to trouble spots faster then the speed of the underwater sound they make. Remember we broke the sound barrier underwater in the 70s.

In the short term we will not only have a much more capable weapon the the shkval but the USN will have a anti-torp weapon as well.

 

[wittmanace]

i would assume that these war games would have to inlcude aa capability....anyone know whether these aa capabilities were shown or discussed at all? if so, what aa platforms did they use? 2 missile test in one week......im surprised theres been nothing of sam testing......whilst anti shipping is clearly a key threat the iranians can pose, its clear that anti aircraft capabilities are also a key need in any future engagement with her current enemies.......any ideas why there has been no emphasis on this in the games or the pr of the war games?



wittmanace

 

[gf0012-aust]

Our program is also geared towards producing a "speed of sound" submarine.

I'd have to say that this is a big negatory. US submarine dxevelopment is geared in another direction. Thats certainly what I've been told - and certainly what I've heard at various UDT conferences. The jump in off platform solutions has increased by some 600%. None of the programmes that I attended briefings on included high(er) (super)speed subs.

Future American torpedoes will not only be at least 5 times faster then current ones. They will networkcentric, will be extremely hard to detect until they are on you ,and will employ advanced passive homing systems. Eventually they will be fired by un-manned underwater vessels that will be deployed to trouble spots faster then the speed of the underwater sound they make. Remember we broke the sound barrier underwater in the 70s.

The USN started development on HS cavitators in the mid 60's - the project was abandoned in the mid 70's for various reasons. some of the obvious ones I've alluded to in another thread.

All US cavitation weapons under development have nothing to do with submarines. I've had an association with one of those programmes about 3 years ago.

In the short term we will not only have a much more capable weapon the the shkval but the USN will have a anti-torp weapon as well.

It won't be a high speed cavitator. The US dropped them for a reason. I met the original designer of the US cavitators in Hawai'i in 2004. Thats akin to meeting Rickover for nuke sub drivers, or Towers if you're a carrier driver. I felt suitably humbled.

It's not often we get to meet our technical heroes...

 

[Rich]

No doubt you were associated with the mine clearing system???? Did you work for ONR? Because they are the ones doing super-cavitation research, the end product will be a torpedo.

I agree that so far the research $$ is small. And I admit the super-fast SC submarine is far in the future. But I seem to remember research on a small insertion vessel capable of super-cavitation?

I would be grateful, GS, to get your insight on the usefulness and capability of the Iranian weapon, obviously a copy of the Russian one.

 

[gf0012-aust]

No doubt you were associated with the mine clearing system????

Yes. in one. I had some v close technology association with RAMICs

Did you work for ONR?

You could say that I was in a parallel universe. I was involved with an Aust project involving recoil management and that involved dealing with US project people and one of the american designers of cavitating weapons. - In fact the original US designer of cavitating warheads

Because they are the ones doing super-cavitation research, the end product will be a torpedo.

I think the focus has shifted somewhat into other opportunities. Super cavitating torpedoes aren't that high a priority as a submersible platform weapons delivery issue.

I agree that so far the research $$ is small. And I admit the super-fast SC submarine is far in the future. But I seem to remember research on a small insertion vessel capable of super-cavitation?

You could call it a mini Seal Delivery System. Instant whiplash....

I would be grateful, GS, to get your insight on the usefulness and capability of the Iranian weapon, obviously a copy of the Russian one.

I actually don't regard it as a useful weapon - there are far too many issues that involve closeness of the shooter, guidance, fire control and utility to be addressed before I would consider it a threat. It would also require a fleet commander to be an absolute novice and "asleep at the wheel" to be a threat to a fleet on an alert warfooting.

It does however concern me about commercial shipping issues - and I can see it used as a terrorising solution against oil tankers in transit etc...

The bulk of my comments I've outlined in the Naval section.

• Is it an achievment? - symbollically yes
• Is it a wonder weapon? - superficially yes
• Can it be countered? - absolutely
• Does it shift the balance of caution? - new capabilities always should trigger respect before response
• Will it change the end game? - a resounding no

 

[Rich]

Actually exactly what I was thinking, as Ive spent a few days researching it. Thanks for replying.

 

[shamsi]

Straight runner Hi-speeds have their pros and cons sir, and rest of your comments, a lot of uncle sam's flag waving!

Last I heard on the Shkval rocket torpedo is it flys blind and straight ahead unless its in slow speed homing mode, at which time it has a sonar seeker guidance. This is, after all, the very torpedo that blew up the Russian missile submarine in the Barents sea. AND the very reason why the Russians cloaked it in such secrecy, even refusing outside help that could have saved some of the crew.

Both the Germans and we Yanks have supercavitating weapons programs. The German weapon is called "Barracuda" and is twice as fast as the Russian shvkal. Ours is cloaked in secrecy and "probably" has a weapon in eval status. One at the least comparable to the German torp. Our program is also geared towards producing a "speed of sound" submarine.

Future American torpedoes will not only be at least 5 times faster then current ones. They will networkcentric, will be extremely hard to detect until they are on you ,and will employ advanced passive homing systems. Eventually they will be fired by un-manned underwater vessels that will be deployed to trouble spots faster then the speed of the underwater sound they make. Remember we broke the sound barrier underwater in the 70s.

In the short term we will not only have a much more capable weapon the the shkval but the USN will have a anti-torp weapon as well.

 

[norinco89]

Does anyone think Iran is just bluffing.

I believe it dont have the weapons they listed or least they are not as potent as they describe them.

I think it is a bluff to ward off any invasion attempts. Y else would u flex their military muscle?

 

[Big-E]

Does anyone think Iran is just bluffing.

I believe it dont have the weapons they listed or least they are not as potent as they describe them.

I think it is a bluff to ward off any invasion attempts. Y else would u flex their military muscle?

Well no one can really be sure, but how much R&D do you think they can get with a 9 billion dollar defense budget. . .

 

[kmaster_bhr]

Iran's Shahab 5 and 6 are long Range ICBMs, the Shahab 3 and 4 are M/IRBM and the Shahab 1-2 are Scud type SRM. Shahabs 4 and 5 have the capability of reaching targets in Iraq and Israel and they may have MIRV capability. With their nucler program in full swing now and the rhetoric that its President is preaching, Iran is a major threat to stability in the Region. It is the major supporter of HAMAS government and the HIZBULLAH party in Lebanon and it is very active in Iraq among Shiite groups.
I doubt very much that this is another N. Korea scenario as some may want to suggest. Iran has the capability and it certainly will use it.

 

[norinco89]

Iran's Shahab 5 and 6 are long Range ICBMs, the Shahab 3 and 4 are M/IRBM and the Shahab 1-2 are Scud type SRM. Shahabs 4 and 5 have the capability of reaching targets in Iraq and Israel and they may have MIRV capability. With their nucler program in full swing now and the rhetoric that its President is preaching, Iran is a major threat to stability in the Region. It is the major supporter of HAMAS government and the HIZBULLAH party in Lebanon and it is very active in Iraq among Shiite groups.
I doubt very much that this is another N. Korea scenario as some may want to suggest. Iran has the capability and it certainly will use it.

Irans missiles are joint ventures with North Korea. It certainly is like a North Korea. These two countries make nukes to protect themselves from invasion. North Korea have the capability to strike US bases in Japan. Iran can strike Isreal. Either case these countries need to be dealt with.
As for Irans missiles, they are greatly exgerated