'Turkey gave Israel intel on Syria'

chunga1

New Member
'Turkey gave Israel intel on Syria'
By JPOST.COM STAFF
i found this in the jerusalem post. seems turkey is interested in in this too


Turkey provided Israel with intelligence on Syria prior to last week's alleged IAF flyover into the country, Kuwaiti newspaper Al-Jarida claimed on Thursday.


Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan speaks to the media in Ankara, Turkey.
Photo: AP
According to the report, the country had a central role in delivering precise information regarding targets in Syria that were to be hit by Israeli planes. Further, the report claimed that the Israeli pilots were given authorization by the Turkish army to use its airspace in order to carry out the operation.

Sources told Al-Jarida that Turkish intelligence did not coordinate the move with Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan. "Coordination of the [release of information] occurred far away from the political echelon," it said.

The Israeli and Turkish armies share a strong relationship that has been felt through several joint exercises and weapons sales.

On Saturday, an unnamed Turkish official demanded explanations from Israel after fuel tanks allegedly dropped by Israel F-151 planes who were conducting a foray into Syrian airspace, were found on the Turkish-Syrian border.

Turkish paper Hurriyet reported that Turkey was demanding whether the Israeli planes also passed over its own airspace.
 

shimmy

New Member
questions

Unfortunately , in today's enviornments I must ask:1) Is Kuwait a reliable source or is Kuwait trying to get Turkey more aligned with the Arab countries in their anti-Israeli policies?
2)If INTEL was given , was it Turkish INTEL or US INTEL?
3)If Turkey gave INTEL, is their alleged complaint about the fuel tanks just an attempt to make it seem as if Turkey was against the raid ?
4)Should we recall OPERATION OPERA?After that raid everyone ,except possible General Haig, was against ISrael-now we should thank them for that attack.
 

Incognito129

Banned Member
Unfortunately , in today's enviornments I must ask:1) Is Kuwait a reliable source or is Kuwait trying to get Turkey more aligned with the Arab countries in their anti-Israeli policies?
2)If INTEL was given , was it Turkish INTEL or US INTEL?
3)If Turkey gave INTEL, is their alleged complaint about the fuel tanks just an attempt to make it seem as if Turkey was against the raid ?
4)Should we recall OPERATION OPERA?After that raid everyone ,except possible General Haig, was against ISrael-now we should thank them for that attack.
How did this turn into anti-semitism?

I'm sure they are as much anti-Israeli as you are anti-arab. After all Israel is occupying an Arab country isn't it.
 

Khairul Alam

New Member
According to the report, the country had a central role in delivering precise information regarding targets in Syria that were to be hit by Israeli planes. Further, the report claimed that the Israeli pilots were given authorization by the Turkish army to use its airspace in order to carry out the operation.

On Saturday, an unnamed Turkish official demanded explanations from Israel after fuel tanks allegedly dropped by Israel F-151 planes who were conducting a foray into Syrian airspace, were found on the Turkish-Syrian border.

Turkish paper Hurriyet reported that Turkey was demanding whether the Israeli planes also passed over its own airspace.
Arent these contradictory?? If it was Turkey itself to have allowed the Israeli jets use its airspace to stage the attacks, it doesnt make sense why would they again complain about it?? :confused:
 

chunga1

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
seems to me to be plausable. the turks would not want to seem complicit and those tanks give them an excuse to condem. they have played this game before
 

chunga1

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
Israelis ‘blew apart Syrian nuclear cache’
Secret raid on Korean shipmentUzi Mahnaimi in Tel Aviv

Sarah Baxter in Washington and Michael Sheridan

IT was just after midnight when the 69th Squadron of Israeli F15Is crossed the Syrian coast-line. On the ground, Syria’s formidable air defences went dead. An audacious raid on a Syrian target 50 miles from the Iraqi border was under way.

At a rendezvous point on the ground, a Shaldag air force commando team was waiting to direct their laser beams at the target for the approaching jets. The team had arrived a day earlier, taking up position near a large underground depot. Soon the bunkers were in flames.

Ten days after the jets reached home, their mission was the focus of intense speculation this weekend amid claims that Israel believed it had destroyed a cache of nuclear materials from North Korea.

The Israeli government was not saying. “The security sources and IDF [Israeli Defence Forces] soldiers are demonstrating unusual courage,” said Ehud Olmert, the prime minister. “We naturally cannot always show the public our cards.”


The Syrians were also keeping mum. “I cannot reveal the details,” said Farouk al-Sharaa, the vice-president. “All I can say is the military and political echelon is looking into a series of responses as we speak. Results are forthcoming.” The official story that the target comprised weapons destined for Hezbollah, the Iranian-backed Lebanese Shi’ite group, appeared to be crumbling in the face of widespread scepticism.

Andrew Semmel, a senior US State Department official, said Syria might have obtained nuclear equipment from “secret suppliers”, and added that there were a “number of foreign technicians” in the country.

Asked if they could be North Korean, he replied: “There are North Korean people there. There’s no question about that.” He said a network run by AQ Khan, the disgraced creator of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons, could be involved.

But why would nuclear material be in Syria? Known to have chemical weapons, was it seeking to bolster its arsenal with something even more deadly?

Alternatively, could it be hiding equipment for North Korea, enabling Kim Jong-il to pretend to be giving up his nuclear programme in exchange for economic aid? Or was the material bound for Iran, as some authorities in America suggest?

According to Israeli sources, preparations for the attack had been going on since late spring, when Meir Dagan, the head of Mossad, presented Olmert with evidence that Syria was seeking to buy a nuclear device from North Korea.

The Israeli spy chief apparently feared such a device could eventually be installed on North-Korean-made Scud-C missiles.

“This was supposed to be a devastating Syrian surprise for Israel,” said an Israeli source. “We’ve known for a long time that Syria has deadly chemical warheads on its Scuds, but Israel can’t live with a nuclear warhead.”

An expert on the Middle East, who has spoken to Israeli participants in the raid, told yesterday’s Washington Post that the timing of the raid on September 6 appeared to be linked to the arrival three days earlier of a ship carrying North Korean material labelled as cement but suspected of concealing nuclear equipment.

The target was identified as a northern Syrian facility that purported to be an agricultural research centre on the Euphrates river. Israel had been monitoring it for some time, concerned that it was being used to extract uranium from phosphates.

According to an Israeli air force source, the Israeli satellite Ofek 7, launched in June, was diverted from Iran to Syria. It sent out high-quality images of a northeastern area every 90 minutes, making it easy for air force specialists to spot the facility.

Early in the summer Ehud Barak, the defence minister, had given the order to double Israeli forces on its Golan Heights border with Syria in anticipation of possible retaliation by Damascus in the event of air strikes.

Sergei Kirpichenko, the Russian ambassador to Syria, warned President Bashar al-Assad last month that Israel was planning an attack, but suggested the target was the Golan Heights.

Israeli military intelligence sources claim Syrian special forces moved towards the Israeli outpost of Mount Hermon on the Golan Heights. Tension rose, but nobody knew why.

At this point, Barak feared events could spiral out of control. The decision was taken to reduce the number of Israeli troops on the Golan Heights and tell Damascus the tension was over. Syria relaxed its guard shortly before the Israeli Defence Forces struck.

Only three Israeli cabinet ministers are said to have been in the know Olmert, Barak and Tzipi Livni, the foreign minister. America was also consulted. According to Israeli sources, American air force codes were given to the Israeli air force attaché in Washington to ensure Israel’s F15Is would not mistakenly attack their US counterparts.

Once the mission was under way, Israel imposed draconian military censorship and no news of the operation emerged until Syria complained that Israeli aircraft had violated its airspace. Syria claimed its air defences had engaged the planes, forcing them to drop fuel tanks to lighten their loads as they fled.

But intelligence sources suggested it was a highly successful Israeli raid on nuclear material supplied by North Korea.

Washington was rife with speculation last week about the precise nature of the operation. One source said the air strikes were a diversion for a daring Israeli commando raid, in which nuclear materials were intercepted en route to Iran and hauled to Israel. Others claimed they were destroyed in the attack.

There is no doubt, however, that North Korea is accused of nuclear cooperation with Syria, helped by AQ Khan’s network. John Bolton, who was undersecretary for arms control at the State Department, told the United Nations in 2004 the Pakistani nuclear scientist had “several other” customers besides Iran, Libya and North Korea.

Some of his evidence came from the CIA, which had reported to Congress that it viewed “Syrian nuclear intentions with growing concern”.

“I’ve been worried for some time about North Korea and Iran outsourcing their nuclear programmes,” Bolton said last week. Syria, he added, was a member of a “junior axis of evil”, with a well-established ambition to develop weapons of mass destruction.

The links between Syria and North Korea date back to the rule of Kim Il-sung and President Hafez al-Assad in the last century. In recent months, their sons have quietly ordered an increase in military and technical cooperation.

Foreign diplomats who follow North Korean affairs are taking note. There were reports of Syrian passengers on flights from Beijing to Pyongyang and sightings of Middle Eastern businessmen from sources who watch the trains from North Korea to China.

On August 14, Rim Kyong Man, the North Korean foreign trade minister, was in Syria to sign a protocol on “cooperation in trade and science and technology”. No details were released, but it caught Israel’s attention.

Syria possesses between 60 and 120 Scud-C missiles, which it has bought from North Korea over the past 15 years. Diplomats believe North Korean engineers have been working on extending their 300-mile range. It means they can be used in the deserts of northeastern Syria � the area of the Israeli strike.

The triangular relationship between North Korea, Syria and Iran continues to perplex intelligence analysts. Syria served as a conduit for the transport to Iran of an estimated £50m of missile components and technology sent by sea from North Korea. The same route may be in use for nuclear equipment.

But North Korea is at a sensitive stage of negotiations to end its nuclear programme in exchange for security guarantees and aid, leading some diplomats to cast doubt on the likelihood that Kim would cross America’s “red line” forbidding the proliferation of nuclear materials.

Christopher Hill, the State Department official representing America in the talks, said on Friday he could not confirm “intelligence-type things”, but the reports underscored the need “to make sure the North Koreans get out of the nuclear business”.

By its actions, Israel showed it is not interested in waiting for diplomacy to work where nuclear weapons are at stake.

As a bonus, the Israelis proved they could penetrate the Syrian air defence system, which is stronger than the one protecting Iranian nuclear sites.

This weekend President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran sent Ali Akbar Mehrabian, his nephew, to Syria to assess the damage. The new “axis of evil” may have lost one of its spokes.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article2461421.ece
 

cheetah

New Member
If the Israelis have Menage to hit any thing other then sand they would have been bragging about it.they are not known to keep quite about things of this magnitude.
Turks to play innocent is total b.s.they were involved in it.we all no Syrians air defenses are weak am i to believe Turks have obsolete air defense system to.
 

Khairul Alam

New Member
If the Israelis have Menage to hit any thing other then sand they would have been bragging about it.they are not known to keep quite about things of this magnitude.
Absolutely...u have spoken my mind cheetah!!:D Israel wud have been the first to leap into a media frenzy had they managed to hit something that critical as claimed by the US. We can look at the example of 1982 when Israel blew up Iraq's nuclear reactor. After the attack, footages of the raid were proudly aired in the Israeli media. Maybe, it wasnt an air raid at all...as others have already mentioned, probably the Israelis were only checking Syrian readiness and were gaining intel on air defences.
 

AntiBond007

New Member
Few things. First, in 1982 it was supposed to be a secret raid, the Israelis had no choice but to admit to the attack when jordan detected the aircraft. And it had negetive effects too, at the time they were condemed by everyone.

Secondly, If israel hit "sand", Syrian TV would be showing that night and day (but they are not), and by the angry reaction of the Syrians (and North Koreans), they hit something. Lastly, it can be plainly seen that the Israeli defence establishment, and the US are pretty happy with the results, some even hinting at the success of the operation.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
From The Sunday Times
September 16, 2007

Israelis 'blew apart Syrian nuclear cache'

Secret raid on Korean shipment

Uzi Mahnaimi in Tel Aviv, Sarah Baxter in Washington and Michael Sheridan

It was just after midnight when the 69th Squadron of Israeli F15Is crossed the Syrian coast-line. On the ground, Syria's formidable air defences went dead. An audacious raid on a Syrian target 50 miles from the Iraqi border was under way.

At a rendezvous point on the ground, a Shaldag air force commando team was waiting to direct their laser beams at the target for the approaching jets. The team had arrived a day earlier, taking up position near a large underground depot. Soon the bunkers were in flames.

Ten days after the jets reached home, their mission was the focus of intense speculation this weekend amid claims that Israel believed it had destroyed a cache of nuclear materials from North Korea.

The Israeli government was not saying. "The security sources and IDF [Israeli Defence Forces] soldiers are demonstrating unusual courage," said Ehud Olmert, the prime minister. "We naturally cannot always show the public our cards."

The Syrians were also keeping mum. "I cannot reveal the details," said Farouk al-Sharaa, the vice-president. "All I can say is the military and political echelon is looking into a series of responses as we speak. Results are forthcoming." The official story that the target comprised weapons destined for Hezbollah, the Iranian-backed Lebanese Shi'ite group, appeared to be crumbling in the face of widespread scepticism.
Andrew Semmel, a senior US State Department official, said Syria might have obtained nuclear equipment from "secret suppliers", and added that there were a "number of foreign technicians" in the country.

Asked if they could be North Korean, he replied: "There are North Korean people there. There's no question about that." He said a network run by AQ Khan, the disgraced creator of Pakistan's nuclear weapons, could be involved.

But why would nuclear material be in Syria? Known to have chemical weapons, was it seeking to bolster its arsenal with something even more deadly?

Alternatively, could it be hiding equipment for North Korea, enabling Kim Jong-il to pretend to be giving up his nuclear programme in exchange for economic aid? Or was the material bound for Iran, as some authorities in America suggest?

According to Israeli sources, preparations for the attack had been going on since late spring, when Meir Dagan, the head of Mossad, presented Olmert with evidence that Syria was seeking to buy a nuclear device from North Korea.

The Israeli spy chief apparently feared such a device could eventually be installed on North-Korean-made Scud-C missiles.

"This was supposed to be a devastating Syrian surprise for Israel," said an Israeli source. "We've known for a long time that Syria has deadly chemical warheads on its Scuds, but Israel can't live with a nuclear warhead."

An expert on the Middle East, who has spoken to Israeli participants in the raid, told yesterday's Washington Post that the timing of the raid on September 6 appeared to be linked to the arrival three days earlier of a ship carrying North Korean material labelled as cement but suspected of concealing nuclear equipment.

The target was identified as a northern Syrian facility that purported to be an agricultural research centre on the Euphrates river. Israel had been monitoring it for some time, concerned that it was being used to extract uranium from phosphates.

According to an Israeli air force source, the Israeli satellite Ofek 7, launched in June, was diverted from Iran to Syria. It sent out high-quality images of a northeastern area every 90 minutes, making it easy for air force specialists to spot the facility.

Early in the summer Ehud Barak, the defence minister, had given the order to double Israeli forces on its Golan Heights border with Syria in anticipation of possible retaliation by Damascus in the event of air strikes.

Sergei Kirpichenko, the Russian ambassador to Syria, warned President Bashar al-Assad last month that Israel was planning an attack, but suggested the target was the Golan Heights.

Israeli military intelligence sources claim Syrian special forces moved towards the Israeli outpost of Mount Hermon on the Golan Heights. Tension rose, but nobody knew why.

At this point, Barak feared events could spiral out of control. The decision was taken to reduce the number of Israeli troops on the Golan Heights and tell Damascus the tension was over. Syria relaxed its guard shortly before the Israeli Defence Forces struck.

Only three Israeli cabinet ministers are said to have been in the know ? Olmert, Barak and Tzipi Livni, the foreign minister. America was also consulted. According to Israeli sources, American air force codes were given to the Israeli air force attaché in Washington to ensure Israel's F15Is would not mistakenly attack their US counterparts.

Once the mission was under way, Israel imposed draconian military censorship and no news of the operation emerged until Syria complained that Israeli aircraft had violated its airspace. Syria claimed its air defences had engaged the planes, forcing them to drop fuel tanks to lighten their loads as they fled.

But intelligence sources suggested it was a highly successful Israeli raid on nuclear material supplied by North Korea.

Washington was rife with speculation last week about the precise nature of the operation. One source said the air strikes were a diversion for a daring Israeli commando raid, in which nuclear materials were intercepted en route to Iran and hauled to Israel. Others claimed they were destroyed in the attack.

There is no doubt, however, that North Korea is accused of nuclear cooperation with Syria, helped by AQ Khan's network. John Bolton, who was undersecretary for arms control at the State Department, told the United Nations in 2004 the Pakistani nuclear scientist had "several other" customers besides Iran, Libya and North Korea.

Some of his evidence came from the CIA, which had reported to Congress that it viewed "Syrian nuclear intentions with growing concern".

"I've been worried for some time about North Korea and Iran outsourcing their nuclear programmes," Bolton said last week. Syria, he added, was a member of a "junior axis of evil", with a well-established ambition to develop weapons of mass destruction.

The links between Syria and North Korea date back to the rule of Kim Il-sung and President Hafez al-Assad in the last century. In recent months, their sons have quietly ordered an increase in military and technical cooperation.

Foreign diplomats who follow North Korean affairs are taking note. There were reports of Syrian passengers on flights from Beijing to Pyongyang and sightings of Middle Eastern businessmen from sources who watch the trains from North Korea to China.

On August 14, Rim Kyong Man, the North Korean foreign trade minister, was in Syria to sign a protocol on "cooperation in trade and science and technology". No details were released, but it caught Israel's attention.

Syria possesses between 60 and 120 Scud-C missiles, which it has bought from North Korea over the past 15 years. Diplomats believe North Korean engineers have been working on extending their 300-mile range. It means they can be used in the deserts of northeastern Syria ? the area of the Israeli strike.

The triangular relationship between North Korea, Syria and Iran continues to perplex intelligence analysts. Syria served as a conduit for the transport to Iran of an estimated £50m of missile components and technology sent by sea from North Korea. The same route may be in use for nuclear equipment.

But North Korea is at a sensitive stage of negotiations to end its nuclear programme in exchange for security guarantees and aid, leading some diplomats to cast doubt on the likelihood that Kim would cross America's "red line" forbidding the proliferation of nuclear materials.

Christopher Hill, the State Department official representing America in the talks, said on Friday he could not confirm "intelligence-type things", but the reports underscored the need "to make sure the North Koreans get out of the nuclear business".

By its actions, Israel showed it is not interested in waiting for diplomacy to work where nuclear weapons are at stake.

As a bonus, the Israelis proved they could penetrate the Syrian air defence system, which is stronger than the one protecting Iranian nuclear sites.

This weekend President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran sent Ali Akbar Mehrabian, his nephew, to Syria to assess the damage. The new "axis of evil" may have lost one of its spokes.

>From The Sunday Times
September 16, 2007

A tale of two dictatorships: The links between North Korea and Syria
Michael Sheridan, Far East correspondent
Deep in a tunnel under Mount Myohang, in North Korea, its regime has preserved as a museum piece the Kalashnikov assault rifle and pistols sent as gifts from President Hafez al-Assad of Syria to Kim Il Sung in the early years of their friendship.

Today North Korea and Syria are ruled by the sons of their late 20th century dictators, men who share more than just a common fear of the United States and a fondness for authoritarian family rule.

In recent months, Kim Jong Il and Bashar Assad have quietly ordered an increase in military and technical co-operation which has caught the attention of western and Israeli intelligence.

Syria possesses the biggest missile arsenal and the largest stockpile of chemical weapons in the Middle East, built up over the last two decades with arms bought from North Korea.

North Korea, which exploded a nuclear device in October last year, has become critical to Syria's plans to enhance and upgrade its weapons.

Syria's liquid fuelled Scud-C missiles depend on "essential foreign aid and assistance, primarily from North Korean entities," said the CIA in a report to the US Congress in 2004.

"We are looking at Syrian nuclear intentions with growing concern," the CIA director also confirmed to Congress.

Both North Korea and Syria are secret police states and among the hardest intelligence targets to crack.

But earlier this year, foreign diplomats who follow North Korean affairs took note of an increase in diplomatic and military visits between the two.

They received reports of Syrian passengers on flights from Beijing to Pyongyang, almost the only air route into the country. They also picked up observations of Middle Eastern businessmen from sources who watch the trains from North Korea to the industrial cities of northeast China.

Then there were clues in the official media.

On August 14, the North Korean minister of foreign trade, Rim Kyong Man, was in Syria to sign a protocol on "co-operation in trade and science and technology." His delegation held the fifth meeting of a "joint economic committee" with its Syrian counterparts. No details were disclosed.

The conclusion among diplomats was that the deal involved North Korean ballistic missiles, maintenance for the existing Syrian arsenal and engineering expertise for building silos and bunkers against air attack.

Syria possesses between 60 and 120 Scud-C missiles which it bought from North Korea over the last 15 years.

In the 1990s it added cluster warheads for the Scud-Cs that experts believe are intended for chemical weapons.

Like North Korea, Syria has an extensive chemical weapons programme including Sarin, VX and mustard gas, according to researchers at the Centre for Nonproliferation Studies at the Monterey Institute in the US.

The Scud-C is strategically worrying to Israel because Syria has deployed it with one launcher for every two missiles. The normal ratio is one to 10. The conclusion: Syria's missiles are set up for one devastating first strike.

The second cause for concern is that the Scud-C is a notoriously inaccurate weapon. It is better for scattering chemical weapons than hitting one target.

Diplomats believe North Korean engineers have worked on modifying the Scud-Cs to extend their 300 mile range. That means they can be based in the deserts of eastern Syria - the area of the September 6 Israeli strike.

More worrying for Israel were reports from diplomats in Pyongyang that Syrian and Iranian observers were present at missile test firings by the North Korean military last summer and were given valuable telemetry data.

North Korean scientists are working on a new-generation Scud-D which would extend the range of an accurate missile strike and is of intense interest to Syria.

For years, the US and Israel believed Syria was committed to a calculated strategic balance. They saw North Korean weapons sales to the Middle East as purely a source of revenue - apart from seafood, minerals and timber, North Korea is impoverished and has little else to sell.

But the political risk assessment has changed. Both dictators see their regimes under threat from the United States. Both are capable of unpredictable action and little is known about the internal pressures upon their regimes.

In 2003, the US Defence Secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, said Syria had tested chemical weapons.

In the same year the North Koreans twice privately threatened American negotiators with "transfer" of their nuclear weapons technology to other states.

The nuclear threat in Syria was long believed dormant, as Damascus appeared to rely on a chemical first-strike as an unconventional deterrent.

But in a period of détente the US and its allies concurred when China sold a 30kw nuclear reactor to Syria in 1998 under IAEA controls. American intelligence officials believe Syria then recruited Iraqi scientists who fled after the fall of Saddam Hussein. Like other countries in the region, it is believed to have renewed its pursuit of nuclear research. (The Iraq Survey group, however, concluded that there was no evidence that any of Saddam's actual weapons were hidden in Syria).

With such warnings, the Israelis and Americans intensified their scrutiny of dealings between the two - and their joint missile technology ventures with Iran, another North Korean customer.

The triangular relationship between North Korea, Syria and Iran continues to perplex diplomats and intelligence analysts.

One fact is that Syria has served as a conduit for the transport to Iran of an estimated 50 mln pounds worth of missile components and technology sent by sea from North Korea to the Syrian port of Tartous, diplomats said.

Another fact is that Damascus and Tehran have set up a 125 mln pounds joint venture to build missiles in Syria with North Korean and Chinese technical help, they said.

North Korean military engineers have worked on hardened silos and tunnels for the project near the cities of Hama and Aleppo, the diplomats added.

Since the Israeli strike in eastern Syria on September 6, all sides have kept silent about the nature of the target.

North Korea is at a sensitive stage of negotiations to end its nuclear weapons programmes in exchange for security guarantees and economic aid. So diplomats think it unlikely that Kim has authorized a radical step such as selling nuclear components to Syria.

But nothing in the negotiations inhibits North Korea from aggressively pursuing its non-nuclear weapons sales abroad and from building alliances with other foes of the United States.

And two intriguing messages from the North Koreans in the aftermath of the Israeli strike were tell-tale clues to their intense interest in the action.

On September 10, four days after the raid, Kim sent a personal message of congratulations to Assad on the Syrian dictator's 42nd birthday.

"The excellent friendly and co-operative relations between the two countries are steadily growing stronger even under the complicated international situation," Kim said.

The next day, in a message that went largely un-noticed as the United States commemorated September 11, 2001, the North Koreans condemned the Israeli action as "illegal" and "a very dangerous provocation."

A foreign ministry spokesman said North Korea "extends full support and solidarity to the Syrian people."

The statement was judged important enough to become the top item issued by North Korea's state-run news agency that day.
 

coolieno99

New Member
...The target was identified as a northern Syrian facility that purported to be an agricultural research centre on the Euphrates river. Israel had been monitoring it for some time, concerned that it was being used to extract uranium from phosphates...
just curious, wonder how uranium can be extracted from phosphates?:unknown
 

kams

New Member
just curious, wonder how uranium can be extracted from phosphates?:unknown
Answer is just a Google away:D .

link

Another source,

11) Commercial Uranium Production (back to top)

While the presence of uranium decay-products makes gypsum a tough sell for the phosphate industry, the uranium has, at various times, presented the industry with a business opportunity of its own.

One of the lesser-known-facts about the phosphate industry is that its processing facilities have produced and sold sizeable quantities of uranium.

In 1997, just two phosphate plants in Louisiana produced 950,000 pounds of commercial uranium, which amounted to roughly 16% of the domestically produced uranium in the US.

In 1998, the same two plants produced another 950,000 pounds, but due to declining market prices for uranium, both plants have since ceased production.

If market prices improve, however, 4 US phosphate plants (2 in Louisiana & 2 in Florida) would have the capacity to produce a combined 2.75 million pounds of uranium per year, according to the Department of Energy (DOE). The DOE has termed these 4 facilities "Nonconventional Uranium Plants."
link
 
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shimmy

New Member
I think Turkey does not want to align itself with the Arab part of the Muslim world but must be careful not to be openly pro-USA or pro-Israel-it is not a case of antisemitism but of making moves very carefully. Weakening Syria can only help Turkey but it can not be seen as helping Israel. Working economicly and militarily with the US is a good thing for Turkey but the Turkish Government must minimize(at least in the media) its support of many American positions.
 

merocaine

New Member
The Facts folks just the facts


From Armscontrolwonk

Did Israel Strike a Syrian Nuclear Facility?

No.

Okay, I don’t even know where to start on this bullshit “Israeli airstrike on the clandestine Syrian nuclear program.” I don’t know what the Israelis hit, but I don’t see any reason to believe it was a nuclear weapons facility.

Over the next few days, while enjoying the beauty of Sichuan, I will try to sift through all this crap.

Today, I start with a more modest goal: a timeline outlining how two separate stories about a Syrian airstrike and Syria-DPRK nuclear cooperation merged into the big mess we have today.

This whole shebang began when Syria’s official media accused Israel of violating its airspace and dropping munitions. AP’s Albert Aji summed up the story aptly on September 7 observing: “It was unclear what happened. Syria stopped short of accusing Israel of purposely bombing its territory, and an Israeli spokesman said he could not comment on military operations.”
Things got a little weird on September 11 when KCNA — the North Korean press agency — called the intrusion “a very dangerous provocation little short of wantonly violating the sovereignty of Syria and seriously harassing the regional peace and security.” Ha’aretz noticed the announcement.
On September 12 Mark Mazetti and Helene Cooper convince a Defense Department official to confirm that Israel conducted a strike. Although the story stated that “Officials in Washington said that the most likely targets of the raid were weapons caches that Israel’s government believes Iran has been sending the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah,” Mazetti and Cooper flashed a little leg, adding “One Bush administration official said Israel had recently carried out reconnaissance flights over Syria, taking pictures of possible nuclear installations that Israeli officials believed might have been supplied with material from North Korea.” Mark Mazzetti and Helene Cooper, “U.S. Confirms Israeli Strikes Hit Syrian Target Last Week,” September 12, 2007. Reuters, by the way, also got US officials to confirm the strike, stating that reports about the target are “confused.”
That official must also have called Glenn Kessler, who on September 13 begins the Syria-North Korea line in earnest with N. Korea, Syria May Be at Work on Nuclear Facility, claiming North Korea is assisting Syria with “some sort of nuclear facility” based on Israeli information “restricted to a few senior officials under … Hadley” and not disseminated to the intelligence community for scrutiny. This story, though carefully qualified, is insanely vague, even by the low standards of what passes for reporting on nonproliferation. The impact is to cause other news competitors to try to fill in the details.
Poor Andy Semmel further feeds the Syria-North Korea stories on September 14, making a few relatively bland (if impolitic) remarks that APs Nicole Winfield blows out of proportion. Then the Mazzetti and Cooper go nuts, writing U.S. Official Says Syria May Have Nuclear Ties. We’ll talk about this later, but Semmel’s remarks are much more circumspect than the headlines would suggest.
Then, Kessler merges the two stories on September 15 when he cites — I am not making this up — “a prominent U.S. expert on the Middle East” — not a government official — “who spoke on the condition of anonymity to avoid compromising his sources” — claiming that some Israelis told him (or her) “the target of the attack appears to have been a northern Syrian facility … that Syria was using it to extract uranium from phosphates.” We’ll talk about this later, too, but that statement about phosphates is technical nonsense — such a facility would have little relevance to a weapons program. The explanation for the leak about DPRK-Syrian nuclear cooperation is evident from the title of the story, “Syria-N. Korea Reports Won’t Stop Talks” — as in Six Party Talks.
At this point, of course, all hell has broken loose.

Peter Beaumont in The Guardian on September 16 claims the Israel code named the mission Operation Orchard and competently, if perhaps to credulously, summarizes existing reporting.
The Sunday Times, of course, covers the story as “Israelis ‘blew apart Syrian nuclear cache’ Secret raid on Korean shipment,” stating that Syria was seeking “a nuclear device from North Korea.”
And these are just the stories I have the stomach to read.

Update: Joe Cirincione who nails this story on the head:

This story is nonsense. The Washington Post story should have been headlined “White House Officials Try to Push North Korea-Syria Connection.” This is a political story, not a threat story. The mainstream media seems to have learned nothing from the run-up to war in Iraq. It is a sad commentary on how selective leaks from administration officials who have repeatedly misled the press are still treated as if they were absolute truth. Once again, this appears to be the work of a small group of officials leaking cherry-picked, unvetted “intelligence” to key reporters in order to promote a preexisting political agenda.

You tell ‘em, buddy.

You can Joe’s entire statement, as well as Glenn Kessler’s response, over at Foreign Policy.

http://www.armscontrolwonk.com/1644/did-israel-strike-a-syrian-nuclear-facility


More from people who know

North Korea-Syria nuclear ties: déjà vu all over again?
Home » blogs » Blake Hounshell
Fri, 09/14/2007 - 3:43pm.
Something didn't smell quite right in Glenn Kessler's recent story in the Washington Post about a possible nuclear link between North Korea and Syria. It looked to me like déjà vu all over again. So I asked Joseph Cirincione, senior fellow and director for nuclear policy at the Center for American Progress, author of Bomb Scare: The History and Future of Nuclear Weapons, and a frequent FP contributor, to weigh in. Here's his take:

This story is nonsense. The Washington Post story should have been headlined "White House Officials Try to Push North Korea-Syria Connection." This is a political story, not a threat story. The mainstream media seems to have learned nothing from the run-up to war in Iraq. It is a sad commentary on how selective leaks from administration officials who have repeatedly misled the press are still treated as if they were absolute truth.

Once again, this appears to be the work of a small group of officials leaking cherry-picked, unvetted "intelligence" to key reporters in order to promote a preexisting political agenda. If this sounds like the run-up to the war in Iraq, it should. This time it appears aimed at derailing the U.S.-North Korean agreement that administration hardliners think is appeasement. Some Israelis want to thwart any dialogue between the U.S. and Syria.

Few reporters appear to have done even basic investigation of the miniscule Syrian nuclear program (though this seems to be filtering into some stories running Friday). There is a reason that Syria is not included in most proliferation studies, including mine: It doesn't amount to much. Begun almost 40 years ago, the Syrian program is a rudimentary research program built around a tiny 30-kilowatt research reactor that produces isotopes and neutrons. It is nowhere near a program for nuclear weapons or nuclear fuel. Over a dozen countries have aided the program including Belgium, Germany, Russia, China, and the United States (where several Syrian scientists trained) as well as the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA). If North Korea gave them anything short of nuclear weapons it is of little consequence. Syria does not have the financial, technical or industrial base to develop a serious nuclear program anytime in the foreseeable future.

Nor is there anything new about Syria being on the U.S. "watch list"; it has been for years. Unfortunately, this misleading story will now enter the lexicon of the far right. For months we will hear pundits citing the "Syrian-Iranian-Korean nuclear axis" and complaining that attempts to negotiate an end to North Korea's program are bound fail in the face of such duplicity, etc., etc.

The real story is how quickly the New York Times and the Washington Post snapped up the bait and ran exactly the story the officials wanted, thereby feeding a mini-media frenzy. It appears that nothing, not even a disastrous and unnecessary war, can break this Pavlovian response to an "intelligence scoop."

For information on the Syrian nuclear program that any reporter should have read, see the Web site of the Nuclear Threat Initiative.

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/node/6251

The Sunday Times can kiss my fat hairy Ass, how people can quote the stuff with a straight face is behond me.
 

Rasmussin

New Member
Turkey was involved in the issue when fuel tanks found near its border that were allegedly dropped by Israeli aircrafts. Turkish Foreign Ministry officially requested information from Israel on Saturday but no response was received yet.
If Turkey gave intel to Israel about Syria, why our ( Im from Turkey ) foreign ministry request officially information about fuel tanks?
 

Grand Danois

Entertainer
Turkey was involved in the issue when fuel tanks found near its border that were allegedly dropped by Israeli aircrafts. Turkish Foreign Ministry officially requested information from Israel on Saturday but no response was received yet.
If Turkey gave intel to Israel about Syria, why our ( Im from Turkey ) foreign ministry request officially information about fuel tanks?
For the purpose of credible deniability.
 

Rasmussin

New Member
For the purpose of credible deniability.
Trust me, Turkey doesnt needs credible deniabilities. Coz Turkey and Syria are not allied or freidnly countries. Syria is just our neighbour. And Turkish ppl doesnt like Syria coz of separatist pkk terrorist organization. They were hide pkk leader and terrorists very long times. So if Turkey were gave intel about syria why would try to hide?

( and sorry for my english , I learn it new.... )
 

Grand Danois

Entertainer
Trust me, Turkey doesnt needs credible deniabilities. Coz Turkey and Syria are not allied or freidnly countries. Syria is just our neighbour. And Turkish ppl doesnt like Syria coz of separatist pkk terrorist organization. They were hide pkk leader and terrorists very long times. So if Turkey were gave intel about syria why would try to hide?

( and sorry for my english , I learn it new.... )
But they have to do it as a matter of formality as they are not officially part of any Israeli operation. So it is not only out of concern for Syria.

No worries wrt your English. ;)
 

chunga1

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #19
Solving the puzzle: Israeli air incursion in Syria

Solving the puzzle: Israeli air incursion in Syria
09/12/2007

Speculation regarding the Israeli air-incursion in Syria is rife. Various articles claim that Israel attacked Iranian targets in Syria Israel attacked nuclear targets in Syria and Israel attacked missile batteries brought to Syria from Iran.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Two major pieces do not fit the puzzle in all these speculations. The first, is why Israel chose to risk US wrath by disturbing the peace before the upcoming November summit, and the second is why Israel is keeping mum about the target. Israel has been unusually silent about this operation, and the US has been quite silent too.

If Syrians are getting Iranian technology, or transferring Iranian technology to the Hizbolla, it is greatly to Israel's advantage to advertise the nature of the target and to provide proof, in order to justify the incursions. This time however, there were no aerial reconnaisance photos and no press conferences, despite the supposed need of the IDF to regain prestige after its mediocre performance in the Lebanon war. Likewise the Syrians are keeping mum about the target.

A probable explanation that fis the missing pieces into the puzzle lies in a somewhat different direction. The Russians are developing naval bases in Tartus and Latakia. To support and defend these bases, the Russians may have been installing versions of the Pantsyr-1 (SA-22 or SA-19) missile system. Syria has also reportedly purchased the Pantsyr system and is rumored to be transferring it to Iran. Or possibly, the Russians may have installed and manned a listening post, similar to the one that did so much damage in the recent Lebanon war. The proximity to the Turkish border tends to support the idea that the target may have had something to do with the Russian naval bases.

The Pantsyr has mobile and stationary versions, and can cover a radius of at least 20 KM. In a war, it could be moved to provide an air umbrella for Syrian incursions into Israel. If not the Pantsyr, then perhaps a more advanced system was installed, one that the Russians would not allow the Syrians to touch.

If Russian technicians or military personnel were at risk in the strike, then for obvious reasons Israel would have no interest in advertising the nature of the target, the Russians would have no interest in admitting their presence, and the United States would be quite happy with the result. If not Russians, then the target had to be some other nationality that is not supposed to be in the Middle East, and which Israel would be reluctant to reveal.

I do not have any inside knowledge, and do not offer this theory as more than conjectural speculation. But when you have eliminated all other explanations, what remains, however improbable, must be the solution.

Ami Isseroff

http://www.mideastweb.org/log/archives/00000624.htm
 

chunga1

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20
Israel seized North Korean nuclear material from Syria: report

LONDON, Sept 23 (AFP) Sep 23, 2007
Elite Israeli forces seized North Korean nuclear material during a raid on a secret military site in Syria before Israeli warplanes bombed it September 6, a newspaper reported Sunday.
The Sunday Times quoted well-placed sources as saying the commandos seized the material from a compound near Dayr az-Zwar in northern Syria and that tests of it in Israel showed it was of North Korean origin.

Israel had been surveying the site for months, according to Washington and Israeli sources quoted by the newspaper which gave no date for the commando raid or details about the material seized.

An unidentified senior American source quoted by The Sunday Times added that the US government sought proof of nuclear-related activities before allowing the air strike by F-151 warplanes to go ahead.

The raid by the elite Sayeret Matkal was personally directed by Ehud Barak, Israel's defence minister who once commanded the unit, the newspaper said.

It said he had been preoccupied with the site since assuming his post on June 18.

The White House insisted Friday that it was "clear-eyed" about North Korea as it stonewalled questions about an Israeli strike allegedly sparked by nuclear cooperation between Pyongyang and Syria.

If true, transfers of atomic technology from the Stalinist state would cast a dark cloud over US policy towards North Korea, which US President George W. Bush, weighed down by the unpopular war in Iraq, has hailed as a success story.

North Korea has angrily denied sharing atomic know-how with Damascus, and some news reports have suggested that Israel's target was actually tied to missile exports from the cash-strapped regime to Syria.

White House spokeswoman Dana Perino flatly refused to confirm or deny media reports that Israel struck a nuclear site but sharply rejected suggestions that the incident showed Washington had been naive about Pyongyang's intentions.


http://www.spacewar.com/2006/070922233407.c14rm4r3.html
 
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