Indian Martial Arts

Teindva

New Member
Many of the South Asian old traditions are dying out with the time. Growing influence of western media and manners has such an effect on the society that people have even started abolishing their mother tongues and national language. It is known to the world that motherland of Martial Arts was India that got to China, Okinava and then Japan. There are some traditional martial arts of India which were practiced upto some extent till beginning of twentieth century and by then are not heard of. Maybe these with the names Kalari Payit, Gatka, slumbam, binot etc, be alive in some areas or be in active practice but are not well known.
A thorough study of these arts and to seek their experts if be in any part of India and Pakistan is essential to keep the art alive or rather revive that. The famous poet Ahsan Danish was also an expert of Binot. Now if there be other experts is not known.
 

nevidimka

New Member
Interestingly, just a couple of days ago I was checking Indian Martial arts videos on youtube. You can also check them out too. There are a few videos on them. It is also my understanding that the Indian martial arts are even more ancient than Kung Fu, and has been dying through the British colonization and british Raj era. These days youths are more attracted to new japanese MA like Karate and taekwondo instead of their own MA just because these are a fad of modern times. However I find that the Indian Martial arts are no lesser effective nor deadly compared to the Japanese MA's.

It is also said the northern and southern region of India had many and different MA's, but the Northern ones probably died out, while the south ones survives today, but very rare.

Some Southern ones that are still practiced today are like Silambam, and Kalari Payatu ( your spelling is a bit off Teindva ).
I'm not sure if any northern India MA's survived today in Pakistan.

check this video on Silambam.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em0ueWiaFus"]YouTube - Silambam BERCY[/ame]

pardon the music, but this guy has good speed
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOHezXAR5Es"]YouTube - Silambam Bo Jutsu Rotating インド棒術シランãƒãƒ [/ame]
 

Firn

Active Member
Some points:

a) There are no proof that the MA of the Chinese regions are "offsprings" of older Indian MA. We have no documented links between them.

b) It is also doubtful that that the MA in question are the oldest. Perhaps they are possibly the oldest documented ones.

c) Even if they may be documented it is questionable in which form they existed when their where first recorded.

So it pays off to be careful when making sweeping statements.

I'm always amazed that people forget early western MA like pankration. Even before we have minoan paintings which clearly show some form of boxing.
Martial trainings to prepare for the martial way are recorded also at least into the middle kingdom of Egypt, but once again we don't exactely form and character of them.

P.S: I went through the footnotes claiming that Indian MA influenced Jiu-Jiutsu and Jogo do Pau - not the slightest hint there to support this construction. Seems that the poster has pulled it out of the thin air....
 

Teindva

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This class of Martial art like that of Kung Fu being the immediate one is related with the Budhists travelling back to China from India which is the carrying with them also the practice of the anciant art. The short sword katari and spear were the items of the art which might have not been used by the Budhists but that of stick is certain.
 

the road runner

Active Member
Silambam is a martial arts like Karate or Tae Kwon Do? Or its a martial arts using only weapons like a Bo(big stick) or Ho(small stick)?Is it a Freestyle martial arts or its traditionalist(<<< i think).

Being a practicing martial artist its always great to see different types of martial arts around the world,and now i have been open to Silambam:D
All martial arts have benefits but the ones that always seem to work is Mixed martial arts(MMA).Always better to practice Stand up and ground fighting like Thai boxing/wrestling.

But i am very interested to learn about Silambam.
 

funtz

New Member
I think every nation/civilization with a military would have had a martial art, (not taking about the "hee ha huu, i fight you" types alone).

Martial arts by the literal definition have to be able to accomodate emerging trends and technology to stay relavent in more ways than being a sport.

So why be bothered by the "Growing influence of western or eastern media and manners"? that would be a good thing.
 

Teindva

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The are total forteen types of swords in history which further have their sub-branches of types;
1. Yamani 2.Hindi 3.Qulqi 4.Suleimani 5.Naseebi 6.Mureekhi 7.Salmani 8.Molad 9.Behri 10.Damishqi 11.Misri 12.Haneefi 13.Narm Loha(the soft Iron) 14.Qarajori.
There was no any tradition of using swords in India in ancient history. There were spears, daggers(called Kataar in Hindi), bows with arrows and a three edged weapon called Trishol used as weapons. The sword was introduced by the Muslims in India and later the Hindi sword had its own separate identity.

According to ancient tradition a sword must be kept beside a baby when he gets to seven days which would make him courageous. A sword in a room or house earns the peace of mind for the dwellers. One having a sword or weapon near the bed or under the pillow gets a sound sleep.

The westerns have often given the resemblence of their long and straight sword to that of their 'Cross'sign and it has been often shaped similarly. To make blows on the enemy with a sword is not actually like a game and an easy task to do as it is shown in the pitures and games that for a longer time the contestors strike swords with each other. In reality, after a few blows with a sword on the opponent even a strong man gets fully exhausted because firstly with a force a heavy weapon is waved, secondly the power consumed in the blow to hit the opponent. By giving much more preference to unhealthy activities seldom be there any expert of traditional sword, spear and kataar in the country.
 

nevidimka

New Member
Silambam is a martial arts like Karate or Tae Kwon Do? Or its a martial arts using only weapons like a Bo(big stick) or Ho(small stick)?Is it a Freestyle martial arts or its traditionalist(<<< i think).

Being a practicing martial artist its always great to see different types of martial arts around the world,and now i have been open to Silambam:D
All martial arts have benefits but the ones that always seem to work is Mixed martial arts(MMA).Always better to practice Stand up and ground fighting like Thai boxing/wrestling.

But i am very interested to learn about Silambam.
No, it also has hand and leg movements. I think it is called as "silambadi". But I think more emphasis is given for the stick technique. I'll try to see if I can find videos on its body fighting technique.
 

Firn

Active Member
This class of Martial art like that of Kung Fu being the immediate one is related with the Budhists travelling back to China from India which is the carrying with them also the practice of the anciant art. The short sword katari and spear were the items of the art which might have not been used by the Budhists but that of stick is certain.
I would really like to see some sort of documentation, proof or argument for such statements. A staff is foremost such a natural weapons with a very intuitive handling that it was practically used in almost every known MA as a potential weapon. We certainly don't need buddhist monks to explain the use of the staff among the weapons in Chinese MA.

BTW European swords of the Medieval and Renaissance, especially the mighty Longswords (1,4-1,6m long) are light and very easy to wield. With the great manuals the pragmatic European MA are actual very well documented. Pankration was just like Ringen a mixed martial art which was part of the foundation of many a well trained fighter.
 

Teindva

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according to the website; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_arts
Main article: Asian martial arts (origins)
The foundation of the Asian martial arts is likely a blend of early Chinese and Indian martial arts. Extensive trade occurred between these nations beginning around 600 BC, with diplomats, merchants, and monks traveling the Silk Road. During the Warring States period of Chinese history (480-221 BC) extensive development in martial philosophy and strategy emerged, as described by Sun Tzu in The Art of War (c. 350 BC).

An early legend in martial arts tells the tale of a South Indian Pallava prince turned monk named Bodhidharma (also called Daruma), believed to have lived around 550 A.D. The martial virtues of discipline, humility, restraint and respect are attributed to this philosophy.[3]

Shaolin Monastery was built by the Emperor Xiaowen of the Northern Wei Dynasty in AD 477. Buddhabhadra (called Batuo in Mandarin), an Indian dhyana master becomes the first abbot of the Shaolin temple.[4]

The teaching of martial arts in Asia has historically followed the cultural traditions of teacher-disciple apprenticeship. Students are trained in a strictly hierarchical system by a master instructor: Sifu in Cantonese or Shifu in Mandarin; Sensei in Japanese; Sabeom-nim in Korean; Guru in Sanskrit, Hindi, Telugu and Malay; Kruu in Khmer; Guro in Tagalog; Kalari Gurukkal or Kalari Asaan in Malayalam; Asaan in Tamil; Achan or Khru in Thai; and Saya in Myanmar. All these terms can be translated as master, teacher or mentor.
 

Teindva

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BTW European swords of the Medieval and Renaissance, especially the mighty Longswords (1,4-1,6m long) are light and very easy to wield. With the great manuals the pragmatic European MA are actual very well documented. Pankration was just like Ringen a mixed martial art which was part of the foundation of many a well trained fighter.
The long sword of the west is not good in very close fight(guttham guttha) and can be used from a certain distance. The anciant Roman short sword, katar or a scimitar has been best for close hand to hand encounter.
 

Firn

Active Member
First I want to say that I find MA in general very interesting as I already took Budo lessons as a kid and still train 1-2 a week them specifically. I consider myself a modest student, helped by a large frame.

Virtues like discipline, restraint, high etics are the hallmark to practically every MA in the world, from Europe to Japan. Still your post is interesting.

The classical "Langes Schwert" or "Spadone" is a extremely versatile weapon, from a long or short distance. You should take at some videos by learned and trained [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC5FIyfI8TA"]fighters[/ame].
 

Teindva

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The classical "Langes Schwert" or "Spadone" is a extremely versatile weapon, from a long or short distance. You should take at some videos by learned and trained.
Dear Firn! Happy to see you as a skilled man. This long sword does not work properly in a close contact and one succeeding to come nearer makes the use of it not efficient as a sabre. It has a place in between a spear and a sword and has been well used mostly by the European foot soldiers as well as cavaliers. It is better for a thrust but for the parallel blow to sides and downwards, a sabre is more effective and piercing than this. Share your experience with us.
 

Craftsmen

New Member
Great article enjoyed reading it, however not quite sure if the facts are correct given the source of :)chinese martial arts lost their records during the destruction of Shaolin 300 years ago. I have studied chinese, japanese and Javanese martial arts for more than 34 years and have never seen any documentation that supports your views.
 
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