The history of the TURKS

[musti]

The history of the Turks whose political order was developed in line with its military order dates before 4000 years. This long story, started in Central Asia, which spread throughout all the major continents as a result of the great immigrations. The Khun, Kokturk and Uighur nations in the East and the first Turkish state, namely the Great Seljuk Empire founded by Turks of the Oghuz origin, in 1040 in the West were instrumental in introducing the Turks to the World.

Entering Anatolia thanks to Malazgirt victory in 1071, the Turks founded many provinces (called as Beylikler), The Anatolian Seljuk State and the Ottoman Empire, one of the most significant states of the Turks. Language, religion, custom and traditions were the common elements of these Turkish communities.

Over centuries, the Turkish Flag flew from one end to the other. The Turks watering their horses in theDanube, knocked on the doors of Vienna, established an absolute sovereignty in the Mediterranean and seized the Arabian Peninsula and North Africa.

Devoted soldiers as individuals, the Turks proved themselves to be an army-nation to the whole world. Beginning from the Turkish nations inCentral Asia till today, being a soldier was not considered as a profession, since every Turk was regarded as a naturally born warrior.

The God-given military mission, as depicted in the Kokturk Inscriptions, was accepted by the Turks as an ideal for all times.

Having increasingly lost its power as a result of geopolitical and geostrategic circumstances, the Ottoman Empire, during its weakest period, took part in the World War I, resulting in new and legendary pages in the history of the Turkish Army. The Gallipolis War, which played a vital role in the geographical and political order of the world, ended with the victory of the Turkish Army, leading to the extension of the war.

The defeat of its allies determined the end of theOttoman Empire, with the country being invaded and its army disarmed.

The demise of this deep-rooted empire, gave way to the rise of a new sun, laying the foundations of theTurkish Republic that would last forever. Breaking through the dark clouds, this sun was Mustafa Kemal ATATÜRK, the great soldier and statesman of the XXth Century. As a reformist of military origin, Atatürk proved his genius to the nations of the world, by improving the state, which he founded, in every field. A completely new Republic now arose over the soils of Turkey, whose borders were drawn with blood.

The great Atatürk led the Turkish Nation and Armed Forces, continuously strengthening them.

While the flames of World War II were grazing the Turkish borders, the Turkish Army was on duty. Closely monitoring the developments taking place all over the globe after the World War II, the Turkish Armed Forces attracted everyone’s attention in 1950 by participating in the Korean War solely for humanitarian purposes. The reinforced infantry brigade deployed to Korea became a good example to many nations’ armed forces due to its military courage, discipline and spirit it displayed in the wars it participated in. 731 Turkish soldiers became martyrs in Korea.

Becoming a member of the NATOAlliance on February 18, 1952, the Turkish Republic initiated a comprehensive modernisation programme for its Armed Forces. The Turkish Armed Forces, whose power of deterrence continuously increased, proved its power and capabilities once more during the 1974 Cyprus Peace Operation. Towards the end of the 80s, a re-structuring process has been initiated in the Turkish Armed Forces.

Turkey is located in a vitally important and challenging region with various political regimes, religions, economic systems and military powers. Due to its dominant position surrounded by the Black, Aegean and the Mediterranean Seas, as well as the Balkans and the Middle East, it is a focal point of strategic lines beginning from Gibraltar, where land and sea lines of communication intersect, to Middle East and Central Asia on three continents.Turkey, with its Turkish Straits is also well positioned to control the Suez Canal and consequently the maritime traffic in the region.

East and Southeastern Anatolia are the shortest land and air transport routes to the vast energy resources in the Middle East. Radical changes are taking place in the region where Turkey having vital strategic importance, is located and this process of radical changes brings great challenges with it. While the uncertainties in the content and duration of the changes continue, Turkey stands firm as an element of stability in the region.

In this environment of uncertainty, the threat to the security of Turkey no longer comprise solely the regional military powers, but also political, economic and social instabilities, border disputes, struggles of power as well as terrorism. The conditions of the region whereTurkey is located, pose a clear threat.

In addition to the regional crises, the Turkish Armed Forces, must, based on political decisions, also be prepared to respond to crises that pose a threat to the World Peace.

Strictly adhering to great Atatürk’s principle, ‘Peace At Home, Peace In The World’, the Armed Forces of the Turkish Republic does not have any aggressive intentions, but it is employed when its independence, nation, country and honour are under threat or in parallel with the common ideals of international organizations of which it is a member.

As a member of the NATO Alliance, the Turkish Republic ensured an increased security and contributed to the protection of the global balance, as well. Turkey cooperates in defence and economic fields with the US as the sole super power as a result of the changing balances and fully supports the initiatives towards Disarmament and Arms Control. In this context, Turkey is committed to a Disarmament that is realized under an effective control mechanism, which does not adversely affect the security of any nation.

In an environment full of hot conflicts,Turkey, having great importance as the last link within the NATO defence chain, must have a powerful national defence capability and a strong armed forces ready to effectively react to potential dangers from peacetime.

Elements of the Turkish Defence Policy are determination and will for National Defence, NATO solidarity and the Turkish Armed Forces.

The Armed Forces of the Turkish Republic having great geopolitical and geostrategic importance comprise the Army, Navy and Air Force that are subordinate to the Turkish General Staff. The General Command of Gendarmerie and the Coast Guard Command, which operate as the parts of internal security forces in peacetime, are subordinate to the Land and Naval Forces Commands, respectively in wartime.

The Chief of General Staff is the Commander of the Armed Forces. In wartime, he acts as the Commander in Chief on behalf of the President. Commanding the Armed Forces and establishing the policies and programs related with the preparation for combat of personnel, intelligence, operations, organization, training and logistic services are the responsibilities of the Turkish General Staff. Furthermore, the Turkish General Staff coordinates the military relations of the Turkish Armed Forces with NATO and other friendly nations.

www.tsk.mil.tr

 

[webmaster]

Please always provide source of your information.

Read the rules:
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/rules.php

Thanks, enjoy!

 

[musti]

www.tsk.mil.tr

 

[Sparapet]

Having increasingly lost its power as a result of geopolitical and geostrategic circumstances, the Ottoman Empire, during its weakest period, took part in the World War I, resulting in new and legendary pages in the history of the Turkish Army. The Gallipolis War, which played a vital role in the geographical and political order of the world, ended with the victory of the Turkish Army, leading to the extension of the war. .... The demise of this deep-rooted empire, gave way to the rise of a new sun, laying the foundations of theTurkish Republic that would last forever. Breaking through the dark clouds, this sun was Mustafa Kemal ATATÜRK, the great soldier and statesman of the XXth Century. As a reformist of military origin, Atatürk proved his genius to the nations of the world, by improving the state, which he founded, in every field. A completely new Republic now arose over the soils of Turkey, whose borders were drawn with blood.

The blood from which the new "Republic" arose came from the approx. 1.5 million Armenian men, women and children that were slaughtered and starved to death. (Since you want sources Google Armenian Genocide) The new republic has been founded on a lie, which continues to provide for "unity" and "a turkish identity" since anyone that does not follow the official lie is labeled a traitor, and is concidered a criminal according the the new penal code (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4587675.stm).

Strictly adhering to great Atatürk’s principle, ‘Peace At Home, Peace In The World’, the Armed Forces of the Turkish Republic does not have any aggressive intentions, but it is employed when its independence, nation, country and honour are under threat or in parallel with the common ideals of international organizations of which it is a member.

Certainly when they invaded Cypris they intended to vacation there.

 

[Bordo-Bereli]

Musti,These pages aren't enough to tell our history...



"TURKS CAN BE KILLED BUT CAN NOT BE DEFEATED!" Napoleon.

 

[Lonewolf]

how come no mention of the fall of constantinopol thus ending the byzantium empire whose orgins came from the romans 2k years ago, oppression of the kurds by turkey and iraq ( Saladin was a kurd ). ( source general history ). the jannisaries ???

dude alot more needs to be mention.

 

[SABRE]

how come no mention of the fall of constantinopol thus ending the byzantium empire whose orgins came from the romans 2k years ago, oppression of the kurds by turkey and iraq ( Saladin was a kurd ). ( source general history ). the jannisaries ???

dude alot more needs to be mention.

About Sala-udin Ayubi (Saladin). Yes he was a Kurd but Muslims dont dispute on his origins. Be it any Muslim nation (Arabs, Turks etc) accepted him as their leader & he him self had never favored a single nation or sect. He was not the leader of the Kurds but all Muslims.

His efforts were to keep Muslims united under one flag & protect the 3 holy cities. He is widely respected amongst Muslims (& Many non-Muslims) even in the regions which were not the part of his empire.

 

[Lonewolf]

the muslim nations need another saladin around now. Maybe he will be able to stop those so call mahjudin causing the terror attacks and eroding the muslim name around the world. allah ackbar.

PS : I 'm an infidel . and have great respect for all religions.

 

[major_sam47]

Does anybody know of an online forum like this dedicated or centered around Turkish military interests and that has input from Turkish military regulars ?

 

[fieldmarshal]

Policeis laid down by Mustafa Kamal Ataturk, were fundamentally flawed specially his religious polices. How can a nation which is 98%+ muslim be secular, thats mindboggling.

 

[fieldmarshal]

Gallipoli campaign

The Gallipoli campaign took place between April and December 1915 in an effort to take the Dardanelles from the Turkish Ottoman Empire (an ally of Germany and Austria) and thus force it out of the war. Some 60,000 Australians and 18,000 New Zealanders were part of a larger British force. Some 26,000 Australians and 7,571 New Zealanders were wounded; and 7,594 Australians and 2,431 NZs were killed. In numerical terms Gallipoli was a minor campaign but it took on considerable national and personal importance to the Australians and New Zealanders who fought there.

The Gallipoli Campaign was New Zealand's introduction to the Great War. New Zealanders fought on the Peninsula from the day of the landings (April 25 1915) until the evacuation of 20 December 1915. The 25th April is the New Zealand equivalent of Armistice Day. It is marked throughout the country with Dawn Parades and other services. Shops are closed in the morning. It is a very important day to New Zealanders for a variety of reasons that have changed and transmuted over the years.

World War I
Turkey (Ottoman Empire than) came into the war by the end of October 1914, which had not yet recovered from its wars of 1911 to 1913. Turkey's treasury was empty. Its leader, a thirty-three year-old military officer and national hero, Enver Pasha, saw the war in Europe as an opportunity for Turkey to take back lands that had been absorbed by the Russian Empire. Enver dreamed of reinvigorating Turkey's empire. And Enver feared that if Britain, France and Russia won against Germany and Austria-Hungary, they might deprive Turkey of more of its empire. So he decided to take Turkey into the war on the side of Germany.

Ottoman Government ordered two battleships to England just before the war broke out and paid for them. But close relationship between Turkey and Germany scared the Allies and thus Britain decided to not to deliver those battleships which have already been paid. This caused an uproar among the Turks against Britain and their friends. This would be a great opportunity for Enver Pasha to use it against the Allies. Turkey cooperated with two German warships in the bombardment of two Russian seaports: Odessa and Nikolayev. Russia responded three days later, on November 2, by declaring war on Turkey. France declared against Turkey on November 5, and so too did Britain. And Britain found this an opportune time to annex Cyprus and Egypt, lands that had been nominally a part of Turkey's empire while under British authority.

Turkey closed the straits (Bosphorus and Dardanelles) between the Mediterranean and Black Seas, preventing Russia from exporting her wheat or receiving shipments of materials from her allies. To protect its oil wells in the Middle East, Britain moved a military force up the Persian Gulf to Iraq, where it began engaging Turkish forces. And in December, Turkey began an assault into Russia's Caucasus Mountains.

Frustration came with Turkey's failed offensive against the Russians in the Caucasus Mountains. In a five-day battle ending January 3, the Russians smashed Turkey's offensive, and of the 95,000 men that Turkey sent on the offensive only 18,000 returned, about 50,000 of them having frozen to death. The shocked Turkish people wondered who to blame for this disaster.

Gallipoli Campaign
Meanwhile Winston Churchill, responsible of the navy at that time, planned an offensive against Gallipoli to capture Dardanelles, open a secure passage for the navy on their way to Istanbul, capital of the Ottoman Government. Allies gathered their battleships in front of Dardanelles Straight under the command of Admiral De Robeck. The Allied fleet chasing the German warships blockaded the Dardanelles, began bombarding the Turkish batteries at the entrance to the Straits on 3rd November 1914. This bombardment continued intermittently until 12th March 1915.

Naval Battle
On 17th March they sent some boats into the straight and the military intelligence reports said that there were no sea-mines creating a risk for their attack. But the same night a small Turkish mine-layer Nusrat laid many sea-mines into the Dardanelles.

On 18th March 1915, at the beginning of the Dardanelles campaign, the commander of the Allied fleet, Admiral de Robeck divided the fleet into three sections. The first section entered the straits at 10.30 am. and penetrated as far as the row of mines. The Intepe batteries started a heavy fire.

The Intepe, Erenkoy and Tengertepe batteries intensified their fire and a fierce bombardment continued for three hours. In the afternoon Admiral de Robeck withdrew his ships in the third section and threw forward six warships waiting in the rear. During the withdrawal, one of the ships hit a mine and sunk after a terrible explosion.

On 18th March eighteen battleships entered the straits. The fleet included Queen Elizabeth, Lord Nelson, Agamemnon, Inflexible, Ocean, Irresistible, Prince George and Majestic from Britain and the Gaulois, Bouvet and Suffren from France. At first they made good progress until the Bouvet struck a mine, heeled over, capsized and disappeared in a cloud of smoke. Soon afterwards two more ships, Irresistible and Ocean hit mines. Most of the men in these two ships were rescued but by the time the Allied fleet retreated, over 700 men had been killed. Overall, three ships had been sunk and three more had been severely damaged.

Land Battles


The Anzac Corps, the 29th British Territorial Infantry Division, the 1st Royal Naval Infantry Division, the 29th Indian Infantry Brigade and the French 1st Infantry Division were to take part in this action. These forces were to be split into two groups, the first group was to seize the Seddulbahir area and open the Straits whilst the second was to land in the Kabatepe region, seize the Conkbayir area and obstruct the Turkish Forces moving down from the north.

The Commander of the Ottoman 5th Army had evaluated the defense of the Gallipoli peninsula as of secondary importance. Thus out of six divisions he allocated two divisions and one cavalry brigade to the defense of the Gulf of Saros, two divisions to the defense of the area between Anafartalar and Seddulbahir and the remaining two divisions to the defense of the Asian coast.

Of the two divisions deployed on the Gallipoli peninsula one was the 19th division which served as the Chief of Command Reserve Force in Bigali. The commander of this brigade was Mustafa Kemal.

At the beginning of the 1st WW, Staff Lieutenant Colonel Mustafa Kemal was Military Attaché in Sofia. Preferring to participate personally in the struggle of his county against invading super powers of the time, rather than watching from the sidelines, he requested active military duty from the Chief of Staff. Upon his insistence, he was appointed to the 19th Divisional Command founded in Tekirdag on 1st February 1915.

In less than one month, Mustafa Kemal had the division prepared for war. On 25th February, his division was at Eceabat (across Çanakkale) and ready for combat.

The Seddulbahir Battles
At dawn on the 25th April, the Seddulbahir coast was seen to be surrounded by several ships and landing crafts.

At 5.30 am. a hellish fire was opened from the allied warships. Bombardment from the sea held the tip of the peninsula under fire from three sides. The 29th British Infantry Division attempted to move into the land.

The defending forces broke the first wave of the invading forces with success. Then, with the reinforcements which were later brought in, the operation was extended on the land without much success.

The 1st., 2nd., and 3rd Battles of Kirte and Kerevizdere continued from 25th April until the end of May when it turned into chronic local clashes.

In June 1915 the battle again intensified and after the bloody Zigindere Battles which began on the 28th June continued for eight days.

Ariburnu Battles
The area chosen by the Anzac Corps as a landing area was the coast to the north of Kabatepe. However, the Anzacs had landed in the steep, inaccessible area of Ariburnu (later it was called as Anzac Cove) due to their boats having been carried by the strong current. First landing group consisted of 1500 men with the same number again in a following wave. The first target to be captured after the landing was the "Karacimen Bloc".

One of the battalions of the 27th regiment of the 9th Turkish Division in Ariburnu was guarding the coasts of the area. One company of the battalion had spread from the Ariburnu hills to Agildere. This company consisted squads; one on the Ariburnu hilltops, one in Balikcidamlari and one other in reserve on Haintepe.

The Anzac attack began at 4.30 on 25th April. They landed at Ariburnu in the form of a surprise attack. The defending squad opened fire on the invading forces, but the Anzacs advanced. The Turkish company defending the coast immediately reported the situation to 27 regimental Command to the west of Eceabat.

While the Regimental Commander was giving his report to the 9th Division, at the same time he informed the 19th Division. The 8th Company Commander brought up reinforcements to counter the first wave of attacks, however, the heavy losses caused by the intense cannon fire from the ships and the lack of ammunition led him to retreat.

Although Staff Lieutenant-Colonel Mustafa Kemal had sent reports to the army and the Corps Command at Gallipoli, he received no reply. Using his initiative he attacked the Anzacs. Reinforcing the 57th Regiment with a hill-top cannon battery, he advanced towards Ariburnu via Kocacimen. In a critical moment Mustafa Kemal gave the order for a company to rapidly reach the area and for the forward battalion to immediately enter the fray. With their arrival, the Turkish forces attained the initiative. The 57th Regiment completed their battle preparations by noon and moved southwards from Conkbayiri to the Anzac forces. This strike could not advance any further than Duztepe because of the effective cannon fire from the ships. He arrived at Korucakoy and reported the situation to the Army Headquarters. He met the commander of the 3rd corps at Maltepe from whom he received permission to deploy the entire 19th Division after explaining to him the situation. He moved those forces forward. Mustafa Kemal's decision, on the night of 25-26th April was to take the command of the 27th Regiment and to attack the Anzacs with two regiments from the south and two regiments from the north and to drive them that night at whatever cost into the sea. Same night the attack was deployed. Since the majority of the 27th Regiment which arrived from Aleppo (Halep) was composed of aged soldiers, the action on the southern flank did not develop as hoped. The 57th and 72nd Regiments forced the Anzacs to retreat further south from the Cesarettepe hill-top. The Anzacs were in great difficulty to defend their positions with this latest assault. The allied commander decided to evacuate his forces into Hamilton.

Due to the lack of necessary vehicles, the evacuation move was suspended. Dig-in and defend order was given instead.

As time passed both sides were gradually reinforced. The 16th Division was rushed from Thrace and the 2nd Division from Istanbul. Fierce Anzac assaults on Ariburnu continued steadily and the fighting went on until the end of May. Finally, from the end of May onwards it turned into a French warfare.

The clashes of Seddulbahir and Ariburnu in June and July of 1915 were typical of stationary warfare. The opposing forces were extremely close to each other, indeed as close as eight meters (25 feet) on certain locations.

The Anafartalar Battles
General Hamilton, unable to achieve any success on the Seddulbahir and Ariburnu fronts in the past five months decided to open a third front in Anafartalar bay in order to encircle and destroy the Turkish Army from the rear. He assigned this task to the 9th British Corps.

The aim was to immediately seize the Conkbayiri and Kocacimen blocs, advance from there and take control of the Straits. During this landing limited action was to be taken in order to keep the Turkish forces in the Seddulbahir and Ariburnu regions pinned down.

British Army Corps began landing on the night of 6-7 August, to start the final attack against the Turkish troops approximately on the 9th of August. They landed to the south of the Buyukkemikli and Kucukkemikli headlands. Due to the hot weather and exhaustion of the British soldiers, 9th corps spend a day on the beach front instead of moving to the target hills immediately. During this time two Ottoman divisions were transferred to the front with Mustafa Kemal as commander. One of these divisions pushed the 9th corps into the sea while the other one prevented the Anzacs to reach to the battle front.

The 12th Division attacked the 9th Corps front lines. The most critical point was over for the Turks. The 9th Corps, under the fire of the Turkish Forces, fell in great numbers on the beaches and were left totally ineffective. Even though the 9th Corps, that was later reinforced, attempted more flank attacks from Ismailoglu Hill to Anafartalar and from Mt. Karakol to Ece Harbor and Tekke Hill, they could not succeed.

The pinning-down and encircling action against the Northern Group was halted but some sections did come within 25 meters of the crest-line. The 9th Turkish Division, which had counter-attacked for two days in order to alleviate this dangerous situation was not able to achieve a success. Then, Liman Von Sanders, Commander of the 5th Ottoman Army reinforced the 8th Division with two regiments and put it under Mustafa Kemal's orders.

Colonel Mustafa Kemal arrived at the headquarters of the 8th Division, the night of 9-10th August and ordered his soldiers to attack using only bayonets at dawn on the 10th of August. The attack succeeded and even the British Brigade Commander was among the dead. Upon the seizure of the land that would guarantee the security of the defense line, the order to dig-in and defend was given. The British operation that had been carried out with strong attack groups in high hopes on Ariburnu and the landings at Anafartalar were paralyzed and as in the other regions were brought to a standstill.

Thus the allied forces clearly saw that no possibility remained either of breaking the Turkish defense in the Dardanelles or of achieving any result in the Gallipoli Campaign, above all of achieving their ambition of taking Istanbul. On 20th December 1915 they ordered the evacuation of Ariburnu - Anafartalar and on the 9th January 1916 Seddulbahir. Mustafa Kemal was stationed at Edirne and Diyarbakir after the Çanakkale wars and was promoted to the rank of lieutenant general on 1 April 1916.

Over 33000 allied and 86000 Turkish troops died in the eight month Gallipoli campaign which achieved none of its objectives. A British royal commission later concluded that the operation had been ill-conceived. Gallipoli cost 8700 Australian dead and 19000 wounded. Large numbers of the dead have no known grave. The story of Anzac has had an enduring effect on the way Australians see themselves.

Turkish nation who lost about 253.000 men at battle, had managed to emerge in honor against the Allied forces. Actually the fate at trenches changed when Mustafa Kemal addressed his soldiers with the words "I am not giving you an order to attack, I am ordering you to die!".

This was the biggest failure of Churchill and of the Allies of course, they underestimated the military skills of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk and his brave soldiers. Both sides suffered heavy loss of lives.

Today Gallipoli (Gelibolu) peninsula is a national park nearby Canakkale and there are many war memorials and cemeteries belonging to Turks, Australians, New Zealanders, British and French. Every 25th April war veterans (few left today) from both sides and their children meet here to commemorate the Gallipoli Campaign. It is also possible to dive at the shipwrecks along the shores. Many tours also passes from this area.





http://www.allaboutturkey.com/gelibolu.htm

 

[fieldmarshal]

history of the straits

The strait is rich with history and legend. In ancient times it was called the Hellespont, meaning "Helle's sea," in memory of Helle, a mythical Boetian princess. She was drowned in its swift waters after falling from the back of the legendary ram with the golden fleece. Across the Hellespont from the eastern side, Leander swam nightly to visit Hera, a priestess of Aphrodite. In 480 BC Persia's king Xerxes sent his army across the strait on a bridge of boats to invade Greece. In 334 BC Alexander the Great similarly crossed from Greece to invade Persia. The strait takes its name from the old town of Dardanus.

Ottomans first put their feet into Gelibolu in 1354 under the reign of Orhan Bey. But as its center and region, Canakkale passed completely into Turks in 1362 under the reign of Murat I. In later years Turkish control was supported by British diplomacy, which sought to bar Russia from the Mediterranean. But in World War I Turkey was allied with Germany. The British, wanting to get aid to Russia through the Black Sea, tried to capture the Gallipoli peninsula in 1915-16. They were thrown back and the Dardanelles remained unconquered.

After Turkey's defeat in 1917, the Dardanelles became part of a neutral zone of straits, which was under control of the League of Nations. In 1923 the Treaty of Lausanne returned the region to Turkey. At first Turkey was denied the right to fortify the straits, but in 1936 another treaty restored this right and also permitted Turkey to close the straits to belligerent ships in wartime.

Since Turkey was neutral until the closing days of World War II, the Dardanelles route to the Soviet Union was closed to Great Britain and the United States. With this sea route barred, the Allies were forced to build roads through Iran to get supplies to the Soviets. The Soviet Union became determined to gain partial control of the Dardanelles after the war. Turkey refused formal demands for a share in the control in 1946 and again in 1947. As the threat of Soviet aggression increased during the Cold War, the United States and Britain encouraged Turkey to stand firm on sole control.

 

[mysterious]

According to him, his 98% Muslim nation isn't secular but his 'nation-state' is in the way that it functions, keeping religion confined to private life and keeping politics separate.

I do not whole-heartedly agree with his views but atleast Turkey faired better than other Muslim nations who are still struggling to find their identity and have been inconclusive to deciding whether they want to be puritanical Muslim nation-states, secular or adopt a more middle-line by being a moderate Muslim nation-state thereby shunning the problems of extremism of both sorts (fundamentalism and secularism, respectively).

 

[fieldmarshal]

According to him, his 98% Muslim nation isn't secular but his 'nation-state' is in the way that it functions, keeping religion confined to private life and keeping politics separate.

I do not whole-heartedly agree with his views but atleast Turkey faired better than other Muslim nations who are still struggling to find their identity and have been inconclusive to deciding whether they want to be puritanical Muslim nation-states, secular or adopt a more middle-line by being a moderate Muslim nation-state thereby shunning the problems of extremism of both sorts (fundamentalism and secularism, respectively).

You see that is the fundamental prob with the whole of the muslim world. Islam is a complete way of life, hence you have got to follow all its tenents, we cant pick n choose the 1s we like and leave the 1s we dont.
This secularist view is a result of the long occupation by the europeans of all the muslim world during the 19th and early 20th century. If you travel around the muslim world you will realize that the over whelming majority is religious but the ppl in power dont hav eht e pulse of thier nation. Same is the case with turkey.
Ataturk all in all did good work for turkey in difficult times but his out look towards religion was not a muslim view but a christian view.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Reminder.​

This is not a socio-religious forum. It's why Web changed the rules about posting behaviour many many moons ago.

Please restrict comments to Mil Strategy and Tactics.

No comment or response is required re this. Future Off Topic Forum responses will be deleted.

 

[gf0012-aust]

But dont u think that religion/religious belives have a strong baring on strategy and tactics.

This is not up for debate. Web has set the rules - and you've been a member long enough to see why Web changed the forum structure.

It's not going to happen.

This discussion item is closed.

 

[Rich]

Hello to the group. I spent 18 mos in Turkey back in the 70's. You really have to go there in order to see how much Ataturk is revered, as is the Turkish army. Unless things have changed recently most Turks understood the importance of secularism in their modern history. I never had any inkling the Turks were struggling to "find their identity" while I was there. I doubt if it exists now. They are a fiercely nationalistic people.

If I was to pick an infantry I'd hate to fight most it would be the Turks. They are a tough, proud people and produce tough,proud soldiers.

Military-wise they have modernized nicely since I was there. They still have a strong doctrine towards control of the straights. They have always strived to match the doctrine of their American and NATO allies with regard to mobility and firewpower. They have a significant maritime strike capability, a frigate and submarine heavy navy, and considerable amphibious and parachute forces.

But like I said. You really have to go there to understand how much the common Turk reveres their military, most of all the army. And the army is the most secular institution in the nation so I dont see Turkey striving to be the leader of the Islamic world. The Turks are simply to pragmatic and arent overly concerned with problems outside Turkeys interests.