Cuba involvement in Africa

[QBA]

Hi

I’m trying to find specific books about the Cuban involvement in Africa, and I hope you guys don’t mind me asking for the names of some titles.

I’m particularly interested in titles that may contain details of missions and firefights of those who bravely fought against the communist backed forces in Africa, but specifically the stories of those who fought against the Cuban forces. As well, I’m interested in any book that may mention corruption, crimes and atrocities that could have been committed by the Cubans troops while there, especially books that may describe specific guerrilla tactics or regular battles against the Cubans.

All I know about the Cuban intervention in Africa only from the communist propaganda of the Cuban dictatorship. I want to try to learn the truth about the Cuban campaign, because according to Castro every battle was won by the Cubans, including cuito canavales that for what I read in a short internet article, the facts may contradict Castro's version. As well I want to try to understand the feelings and experiences of those who fought against them, because I have a lot of admiration and respect for those people that stood up and fought against those forces trying to impose a communist totalitarian regime with the backing of Russia, China and Cuba.

These are some book I just bought over the net, with the hope that I may find some information about the battle against the Cubans.

Jonas Savimbi: A key to Africa by Fred Bridgland

32 Battalion: The inside story of South Africa’s elite fighting unit by Piet Nortje

At Thy Call – We Did Not Falter by Clive Holt

WAR DOG: Fighting Other People's Wars - The Modern Mercenary in Combat by Al Venter

Another thing I wanted to mention is that I'm trying to stay away from books that may have been written by a lefty sympathizer and apologist of the Castro regime. I have been reading some articles on the net and a lot of time you get the same romantic terminologies like "internationalist" when referring to the cuban troops in Africa, the same propaganda that have been put out there by the Cuban regime.

Thanks a lot, and I hope you guys can help me out with the name of some more tittles.

Alex

 

[Ageiola]

you could try "the african dream" it was written by Ernesto Guevara during his time fighting in africa its his war diary and goes into detail about specific battles.

 

[QBA]

Thanks Ageiola,

As I said earlier, I want to read about the people that stood up and fought against the Marxist forces trying to impose a communist regime in Angola.

I don't want to read what the coward and murder of Che Guevara did in the Congo, that by the way had to cut his Congo adventure short and run, because he was a few weeks away from being wipe out from the face of the earth by Colonel Mike Hoare and his troops.

Let me recommend you some real che Guevara reading, so you too can be inform into why Che Guevara apart from being a horrible guerrilla fighter (As he proved in Bolivia and Congo) was a coward and a murder.

English:
Exposing the Real Che Guevara by Humberto Fontova
The Che Guevara Myth and the Future of Liberty by Alvaro Vargas Llosa

Spanish:
La Otra Cara Del Che por Marcos Bravo
Ernesto Che Guevara: Mito y realidad por Enrique Ros

 

[wittmanace]

the most extensive publisher of what you are looking for is galago press, especially alot of books by peter stiff ( i believe piet nortje's book was by them too...a good read but quationable accuracy and from the point of view of piet himself...a soldier in the war). high noon over southern africa is also a good book on the topic (forget the author, ill look it up..).

as a matter of interest, in southern africa (im part namibian...former south west africa) we consider the spoils shared in many respects, concerning cuito canavale. the battle, from the south african perspective, was about holding its postition, whereas for the mpla et al it was to force the south africans into greater set pieces. south africa, at the time, kept the territory, but after the battle had seen that to compete in the long term south africa would have to severely escalate numbers (and incur much greater losses), and this heralded the gradual reduction in forces and limits as to how far they could go ( limiting how far aircraft could fly, and ground forces could go). it is often seen as a cause of the south african withdrawal.

 

[QBA]

Thanks wittmanace,

I can see you know what you are talking about.

Since I opened this thread I have bought so many books about the subject, including the ones you mentioned, that I think I'm now set for a while.

Here is my book list about the subject:

32 Battalion: The Inside Story of South Africa's Elite Fighting Unit by Piet Nortje

At Thy Call We Did Not Falter by Clive Holt

Borderstrike! South Africa into Angola 1975 - 1980 by Willem Steenkamp

Bushman soldiers: Their Alpha and Omega by Ian S Uys

Congo Warriors by Mike Hoare

Congo Mercenary by Mike Hoare

Continent Ablaze: Insurgency wars in Africa, 1960 to the present by John Turner

Days of the Generals: The untold story of South Africa’s apartheid era military Generals by Hilton Hamann

Eagle Strike by Jan Breytenbach

Jonas Savimbi: A Key to Africa by Fred Bridgland

Journey Without Boundaries: The Operational Life and Experiences of a Sa Special Forces Small by Andre Diedericks

Parabat! by Matthew Paul

The war for Africa: Twelve months that transformed a continent by Fred Bridgland

The Buffalo Soldiers by Jan Breytenbach

The Covert War by Peter Stiff

The Cuban Intervention in Angola, 1965-1991: From Che Guevara to Cuito Cuanavale by Edward George

The Silent War by Peter Stiff

South African War Machine by Helmoed-Roemer Heitman

War in Angola The Final South African Phase by Helmoed-Romer Heitman

We Fear Naught But God by Paul Els

White soldiers in Black Africa: Related from his own experiences by Hans Germani

 

[Feanor]

I don't want to read what the coward and murder of Che Guevara did in the Congo

So much for objectivity...

 

[kato]

All I know about the Cuban intervention in Africa only from the communist propaganda of the Cuban dictatorship.

You realize that by reading only half of the story, you'll never get the full picture?
That's like presuming to be able to judge the Russian Civil War from Trotsky's memoirs alone...

You also realize of course that the primary reason for Che to personally "bring the revolution to other countries" was of course that he and Castro didn't exactly get along in the mid-60s.

One could just as well dismiss anything written by Mike Hoare on the same reasons, even more so considering certain things he and his men have done and that he talks about in his books. And there were also of course certain other things that he and his men were convicted for in 1982, and during the trial for which he clearly gave into the political leanings of both himself and his supporters.

 

[wittmanace]

the lack of objectivity is clear in all the texts on the subject...most of the books by former sadf soldiers still refer to the enemy soldiers as terrorists or terrs, and play down their own failings, for example. a good example is piet nortje who praises himself repeatedly and has nothing but high regard for anything he ever did, as is seen in his book. in "we fear nought but god" the title actually shows how the war is represented from the sadf side...the book essentially just glorifies the sadf's side, and is not really a neutral account, by any stretch of the imagination. days of the generals is a better historical source, though even this is clearly written on the side of the sadf.

breytenbach has written several books on the topic, and is referenced or referred to in most others, as the colonel is an iconic figure for sadf veterans, and as such the accounts are more of a reflection on this.

the best approach for this particular subject is to read the publications from both sides, and to take both with a grain of salt, frankly. one thing to note is that across from miramar, luanda(on the top of the hill), i saw (as anyone can, there is a big museum display) which has interesting pieces. the pieces at the museum actually do prove some of these texts wrong, where more of a certain type of vehicle is present than the south africans claim to have lost. the museum also has aircraft remains to prove the aircraft were shot down, along with the pictures of the pilots (even dead ones) and their flight gear. the entrance to the faa museum has a line up of knocked out sadf vehicles, ranging from casspirs to recovery vehicles to actual armour. the pictures there are also very interesting, though incredibly graphic.....some are from captured sadf cameras, taken by sadf personnel, and some by portuguese..as well as mpla field photographers, cubans and east germans

the bottom line is, take both sides' accounts with a grain of salt..

a good source is the historical department of the FAA (FUERCAS ARMADAS DE ANGOLA), as the faa is now the angolan army, made up of all the factions together. at the museum, for example, the site is guarded by former unita and former mpla soldiers, in brand new uniforms of the faa, side by side.

for some good pictures of the aerial campaign (rare pictures) go to acig.org and have a look at their southern africa pics.


on another note, the stock of damaged casspirs i have seen, just near the central prison in windhoek, is vast, and has been there since independence...the number of casspirs destroyed in battle is clearly rather larger than the accounts suggest ( note: for casspirs i dont mean mine damaged, i mean heavy cal rounds have smashed up the bullet proof windows and there is extensive evidence of rpg hits and fire damage, inside them too).

the best sources for the anti-sadf forces are in portuguese, but if you use an online translator and email the faa historical dept they will prob send you book lists and so on back.

bottom line though: both sides' literature is exaggerated and is mostly written with an objective, historical accuracy coming second to this....though almost none are as over the top as the unita website was, as was their radio, if you saw the former or heard the latter, lol. reminds one of the iraqi "information" minister circa 2003, lol.

p.s. the only absolutely unbiased thing i have seen on the topic was when an m-net program (carte blanche) interviewed veterans of th war with post traumatic stress disorder, as they recalled events during th "border war"

 

[QBA]

kato,

If I said that I knew about the Cuban intervention in Africa only from the communist propaganda of the Cuban dictatorship, it means that I know their side of the story already. I was born and educated in Cuba and my father was in the Angola war, so I do know the other side of the story. Now I'm learning the side I didn't know to get to my own conclusions.

Now about Che Guevara, the reason that he and Castro didn't get along wasn't because there was a difference in the way of bringing “the revolution to other countries", like you called it; I call it bringing Marxist totalitarian system to other countries because that is what Castro and Che Guevara turned Cuba into, like he is trying to do now via his student, Hugo Chavez in Venezuela.

The reason was because conflicts that emerged internally, especially after Guevara failed miserable in his so called industrialization of the Cuban economy and his achievement in bringing the Cuban currency to an all time low after being in Charge of the National Bank, plus the fact that Che Guevara supported the Chinese model of communism while Castro supported the Russian model, so the Russians were putting pressure in Castro to get rid of Guevara and his public criticisms of the Russian system.

Castro kept doing military interventions in other countries, like Ethiopia and Angola. Plus, he kept training and infiltrating Marxist guerrillas in Latin American countries way after Che Guevara was dead. So he wasn’t against using military means to install marxist totalitarian regimes in other countries like you said.

There is a lot about Che Guevara and his crimes against the Cuban people that the rest of the world will know after the Cuban Totalitarian regime ceases to exist.

He executed a few innocent people while on the guerrilla war in the Cuban mountains and when he was in Charge of la Cabaña penitentiary building, he sent to the firing squad not only members of the old regime like Castro history books say, but also members of the same revolution. With the backing of unfair and rigged trials, Individuals were killed for voicing their discontent via pacific or military methods against the betrayal of a revolution. A revolution that was fought with the intention of defeating the Batista dictatorship and the reinstallation of the 1940’s constitution. As a way to return to a democratic system.

As Che used to say, We don’t need evidence to kill; all we need is the conviction that the death of an individual is for the benefit of the revolution.

 

[QBA]

So much for objectivity...

Feanor my objectivity come from the fact that I learned in Castro's school books what Guevara did on the Congo, through out my school years and via the state control media over and over again. I had to salute the flag every morning at school saying, "pioneers (Students) for Communism, we will be like Che".

So I think I know my communist lessons from A to Z. Now I want to learn the rest.

 

[sa_bushwar]

Feanor my objectivity come from the fact that I learned in Castro's school books what Guevara did on the Congo, through out my school years and via the state control media over and over again. I had to salute the flag every morning at school saying, "pioneers (Students) for Communism, we will be like Che".

So I think I know my communist lessons from A to Z. Now I want to learn the rest.

For more on Cuban involvement in Angola, goto: A Site about the South African Bushwar / Border War (A Site about the South African Bushwar / Border War)

 

[OPSSG]

For more on Cuban involvement in Angola, goto: A Site about the South African Bushwar / Border War (A Site about the South African Bushwar / Border War)

Thanks for the link. I previously visited the excellent site recommended. BTW is that your website?