Battle Plan

[stryker NZ]

hey guys one of my friends has to work this out for a world history paper and i thought there may be someone here that has a better idea than i do.

, i have orders to destroy the germans in a WWI battle and i have to do it in two weeks (in the simulator) because the germans are getting fresh troops and supplies. my orders are to take the town. The germans have, a rail road and a bridge. i have 5000 men, with everything a soldier has gun ammo knife all that stuff, and the germans have 4000 men. but i only have two civil war cannons (that shoot one round a minute)and the germans have a "big gun" (shoots 6 shot per minute) and a civil war cannon. i also have a plane and a flat bed truck, but i have no pilot for the plane and only about 2 people know how to drive the truck. so heres the field. to the front is a mile long field of tall grass about 1 to 2 feet high, to my left i have a dense pine forest and after that hills that get very hillier as u go, then to my right, i have a 60 foot wide river thats 6 to 8 feet deep. and then theres an abandoned barn in the field.

what do i do?

 

[Aussie Digger]

hey guys one of my friends has to work this out for a world history paper and i thought there may be someone here that has a better idea than i do.

, i have orders to destroy the germans in a WWI battle and i have to do it in two weeks (in the simulator) because the germans are getting fresh troops and supplies. my orders are to take the town. The germans have, a rail road and a bridge. i have 5000 men, with everything a soldier has gun ammo knife all that stuff, and the germans have 4000 men. but i only have two civil war cannons (that shoot one round a minute)and the germans have a "big gun" (shoots 6 shot per minute) and a civil war cannon. i also have a plane and a flat bed truck, but i have no pilot for the plane and only about 2 people know how to drive the truck. so heres the field. to the front is a mile long field of tall grass about 1 to 2 feet high, to my left i have a dense pine forest and after that hills that get very hillier as u go, then to my right, i have a 60 foot wide river thats 6 to 8 feet deep. and then theres an abandoned barn in the field.

what do i do?

Are the Germans dug in?

Are their artillery weapons ready to fire?

Does your force comprise entirely light infantry?

Okay. With your 5000 men, hopefully they are divided into battalions, of say 1000 each. Ignore the plane, and make ready to use the truck to try and handle the hundreds of casualties you are likely to incur...

Do you possess any machine guns? You should have at least 1 from the plane...

Given the lack of additional info and that' its a WW1 scenario, send 2 battalions, up the left flank, position 2 battalions to charge from the front and hold a battalion in reserve to be used to best advantage where necessary, or to prevent yourself from being over run.

Position your machine guns to on the left flank to provide enfilade fire on the German positions and thereby surpress them as much as possible.

Sight your 2 "civil war" cannons in the "hills to the rear" of the forest to conduct a "pre-emptive" strike on the German artillery positions. Then get prepared to MOVE the guns ASAP, to avoid any counter-battery fire and hopefully maneuvre the guns into a position to be able to conduct "direct fire" onto the German positions.

Then have your forces charge and instruct your troops to howl like mad banshi's whilst doing so. Ze German's will then be taken UTTERLEY by surprise (BWAHAHAHAHA) and the day will be ours. HUZZAH!!!

P.S (Why do you have civil war guns in WW1?).

 

[Big-E]

P.S (Why do you have civil war guns in WW1?).

What civil war are we talking about?

I want to know what kind of world history teacher would let you right a paper like this? Is this uni or secondary school?

 

[stryker NZ]

What civil war are we talking about?

I want to know what kind of world history teacher would let you right a paper like this? Is this uni or secondary school?

i know it wasnt that well written was it (hes not a very good teacher).This is for an end of year project my brothers doing for secondary so i dont think the teacher wanted it to be too complicated by brother could of chosen another project that was easier but i think he fancys himself as a general and wanted to show off that he knew what he was doing (he dosnt and he gave me the project to do instead) and i presume their American Civil war cannons (god knows why they would be getting used anyway but thats what hes been given)

 

[FutureTank]

my orders are to take the town.

a rail road and a bridge.

to the front is a mile long field of tall grass about 1 to 2 feet high,

to my left i have a dense pine forest and after that hills that get very hillier as u go, then

to my right, i have a 60 foot wide river thats 6 to 8 feet deep.

and then theres an abandoned barn in the field.QUOTE]

Firstly the relationship of the objective (the town) to all these terrain features is not clear.

Secondly you have not stated any directional references such as points of compas. For example, is the river located in the western part of your position, and runs North to South with the, with the German held bridge (?) in the North (and your position in the South).

However whatever the terrain situation, clearly the answer to your tactical solution is the pine forest.

 

[FutureTank]

American Civil war cannons (god knows way they would be getting used but anyway)

it could be the Russian Civil War, so the cannon may be French 75mm

However even with them being American Civil War museum pieces you can make use of them

The Plane is VERY usefull, but only without a pilot

You will need the fuel from the trucks, so no need to have the drivers

 

[Big-E]

With about equal odds against a dug in defender with modern artillery you will lose. You might as well leave the civil war guns behind, they are useless. They will probably kill more of your men misfiring. I would suggest using the truck to drive into the town with an incendiary device in it to explode when it reaches the town. The town would then catch fire and the Germans would have to evacuate or burn to death. You then have the advantage in numbers. The Germans will either flee over the river, come at you over the open plain or run for the woods. Most likely they will run for the woods, you will have a nasty little suprise with your BARs sitting at the forest edge. I hope you have Vicker MGs, even better. It will be a slaughter either way as the Germans have to engage you.

 

[stryker NZ]

okay wait sorry guys the little brat gave me his own sumarised notes and hes just shown me what he was actually given (he dosnt listen that well in class). heres how it should be

allied forces
5000 light infantry
1 plane (sopwith camel with only a basically trained airman)
1 flat bed truck (2 trained drivers)
2 boer war cannons (dont even ask where he got civil war from)
2 machine guns

German Forces
4000 light infantry
2 boer war cannons
1 modern WWI cannon
4 machine guns
(the germans are held up in a town and have dug in)
the germans also have the ability to bring in support through the railway and bridge

terrain
to the front of the allied forces is a field full of long grass 2-3 feet high pass that field is an open field with a barn in the middle and further passed that is the german held town.
to the left flank of the allied troops is a river that flows north to south up to the town
to the right flank is the pine forest that also grow up to the outskirts of the village held by the germans
to the rear is a set of hills

the town is a small village with a railway and station on the forest side and a bridge on the river side.

 

[FutureTank]

The town would then catch fire and the Germans would have to evacuate or burn to death. .

But the orders are to capture the town, not burn it down!

 

[Big-E]

But the orders are to capture the town, not burn it down!

semantics... better to burn a town than waste 5,000 lives in a futile assualt

 

[Waylander]

With only an advantage of 5:4?
And even inferior heavy weapons?
No way against a town full of troops.

 

[FutureTank]

With only an advantage of 5:4?
And even inferior heavy weapons?
No way against a town full of troops.

Yes, I was about to point out to Big-E that Allied side doesn't have enough troops for a conventional assault anyway.

However orders must be followed, so the commander is under pressure to come up with Plan B

 

[Big-E]

Yes, I was about to point out to Big-E that Allied side doesn't have enough troops for a conventional assault anyway.

Did you not read what I wrote? I said burn the town and make the Germans come to you... READ PLEASE! :lul

 

[FutureTank]

Did you not read what I wrote? I said burn the town and make the Germans come to you... READ PLEASE! :lul

Big-E...It seems you are assuming the Germans are going to do what you want then to do!

It could be the German plan does not include keeping the town!

Regardless, if orders say occupy the town, then that is the objective. If it said burn the town, then THAT woudl be the mission (artillery).

 

[Big-E]

Big-E...It seems you are assuming the Germans are going to do what you want then to do!

It could be the German plan does not include keeping the town!

Regardless, if orders say occupy the town, then that is the objective. If it said burn the town, then THAT woudl be the mission (artillery).

The ROEs state they are already dug in the town. You would take 1250 men on each open flank and wait for them to come out. They must come out somewhere or the fire will burn them alive and they have a river in the way with a bridge that must be blown to cut off retreat.

 

[FutureTank]

Suggested tactical solution

You lack numerical superiority.

Given influx of enemy troops (presumably via the bridge) their attention is focused on the bridge.

The solution needs to create surprise and local numerical superiority.

I suggest you do as follows.

Use cannon to set fire to the tall grass within 2-300m of the town (when wind is appropriately southerly) a day or two before the attack. The fire will be easily put out by the German troops.

Use two companies of troops (200) to gather wood and green pine branches and bring them to within about five hundred metres of the town at night. Gather enough to burn for 20minutes.

Use a company and one truck to demonstrate construction of a crossing; to the South of their bridge (out of sniper range) thus inviting bombardment by German artillery on the day BEFORE your attack (the artillery crews will be nice and tired).

Disassemble the aircraft wings and tail, and move the fuselage towards the stockpile of gathered wood, hopefully using the other truck.

When wood pile is prepared, use two companies (less a platoon of those with better night vision) of 'woodsmen' to demonstrate strengthening the new bridge construction.

Move rest of troops (3700) through the woods at night. A platoon of 'woodsmen' can act as guides.

Conduct the attack early in the morning.
Reposition the guns and begin firing indiscriminately along the front 30min before dawn. Sleep interruption will make the German troops drowsy and less alert.
5min before dawn move the pile of wood out the forest and light the pine wood pile. The resin in the pine makes if very flammable, and it will burn with dark smoke. The German troops should think its just another grass fire.

Switch on the aircraft engine to direct the smoke along the Western edge of the wood. This will screen your troop's advance to most of the German troops in the town and around the bridge.

This will allow you to concentrate 3700 fresh Allied troops on the South-Eastern corner of the town, likely to be occupied by only a small proportion of the German troops. The machine gunners among these troops will also be looking UP because they will be listening to a muffled noise of an aircraft engine. They may even reposition their weapons onto anti-aircraft mounts, removing them from the trench line (hopefully).

You troops should emerge from smoke screen 1-200m from the German lines with at least 4:1 numerical superiority assuming a reinforced enemy battalion in defense.
Use the machine guns mounted on the truck (if it can get out of the forest) to rapidly close with the German lines. German machine guns should concentrate their fire there, allowing your infantry to reach the town in a few minutes.

After that, its urban warfare.

 

[Waylander]

Yeah if everything works fine.
And even if it comes to urban warfare you still have to fight a city with 5000 germans in it. If they are smart they prepared fortified positions within the town and cleared tactical retreat and logistic routes.
With their 1000 men more it is also easier for them to reach local numerical superiority and form reserves while performing pressure onto the whole frontline within the city.
Still more suicide than anything else even if you manage to get into the town.

 

[FutureTank]

Yeah if everything works fine.
And even if it comes to urban warfare you still have to fight a city with 5000 germans in it. If they are smart they prepared fortified positions within the town and cleared tactical retreat and logistic routes.
With their 1000 men more it is also easier for them to reach local numerical superiority and form reserves while performing pressure onto the whole frontline within the city.
Still more suicide than anything else even if you manage to get into the town.

On my calculations I will have an initial numerical superiority of 5:1 (attacking on a single German battalion frontage of 700 men), and there is unlikely to be more then a battalion (700) in town in reserve. Their counterattack is likely to reduce Allied numerical advantage to 3:1 (allowing for casualties on both sides), stilll acceptable for successfull assault.

The calculations are based on the German FLOT of 2 miles, defended by 4 battalions equally distributed, with 3 battalions in reserve (one at the bridge, and one in town).

 

[Waylander]

An you hope for the other german btls not to maneuver?
Because that is what they are going to do if there is no real pressure onto them.
For example the german btl under attack could perform a fighting retreat via prepared routes and fortified positions while the other btls use some of their manpower to hit the flanks of the advancing american unit.

I still think that attacking a town with 4:5 soldiers against an equal trained enemy in prepared positions with even less heavy weapons support is suicide even if you are able to gain local superiority.
There are just not enough men to gain local superiority AND to put the rest of the german troops under enough pressure to use this local superiority.
Normal minimum would be 3:1 for the attacker and good heavy weaopons support.. 4:5 for the defender is far away from this.

 

[FutureTank]

An you hope for the other german btls not to maneuver?
Because that is what they are going to do if there is no real pressure onto them..

I can only go on the information provided.
If the current German strength is 5000, and they are bringing more troops in, and assuming they know Allied strength of 4000, I am expecting them to continue to accumulate troops to 12-15000 before attacking. This is probably why the orders ask for occupation of the town in the next two weeks (time required for Germans to bring in the troops before being ready for an assault.

For example the german btl under attack could perform a fighting retreat via prepared routes and fortified positions while the other btls use some of their manpower to hit the flanks of the advancing american unit.

Hence the intended use of surprise to deny ability to retreat in good order.