It appears that the explosion in Venezuela was an attack on Iran's missile base

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Ibizan Hound

Banned Member
Hudson said:
Iran Placing Medium-Range Missiles in Venezuela; Can Reach the U.S.by Anna Mahjar-Barducci
December 8, 2010 at 5:00 am

Iran Placing Medium-Range Missiles in Venezuela; Can Reach the U.S. :: Hudson New York

Iran is planning to place medium-range missiles on Venezuelan soil, based on western information sources[1], according to an article in the German daily, Die Welt, of November 25, 2010. According to the article, an agreement between the two countries was signed during the last visit of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez to Tehran on October 19, 2010. The previously undisclosed contract provides for the establishment of a jointly operated military base in Venezuela, and the joint development of ground-to-ground missiles.
Iran Placing Medium-Range Missiles in Venezuela; Can Reach the U.S. :: Hudson New York
PressTV - Venezuelan arms depot blast kills one

At a moment when NATO members found an agreement, in the recent Lisbon summit (19-20 November 2010), to develop a Missile Defence capability to protect NATO's populations and territories in Europe against ballistic missile attacks from the East (namely, Iran), Iran's counter-move consists in establishing a strategic base in the South American continent - in the United States's soft underbelly.

According to Die Welt, Venezuela has agreed to allow Iran to establish a military base manned by Iranian missile officers, soldiers of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard and Venezuelan missile officers. In addition, Iran has given permission for the missiles to be used in case of an "emergency". In return, the agreement states that Venezuela can use these facilities for "national needs" – radically increasing the threat to neighbors like Colombia. The German daily claims that according to the agreement, Iranian Shahab 3 (range 1300-1500 km), Scud-B (285-330 km) and Scud-C (300, 500 and 700 km) will be deployed in the proposed base. It says that Iran also pledged to help Venezuela in rocket technology expertise, including intensive training of officers

Venezuela has also become the country through which Iran intends to bypass UN sanctions. Following a new round of UN sanctions against the Islamic Republic, for example, Russia decided not to sell five battalions of S-300PMU-1 air defence systems to Iran. These weapons, along with a number of other weapons, were part of a deal, signed in 2007, worth $800 million. Now that these weapons cannot be delivered to Iran, Russia is looking for new customers; according to the Russian press agency Novosti[2], it found one: Venezuela.

Novosti reports the words of Igor Korotchenko, head of a Moscow-based think tank on international arms trade, saying that if the S-300 deal with Venezuela goes through, Caracas should pay cash for the missiles, rather than take another loan from Russia. "The S-300 is a very good product and Venezuela should pay the full amount in cash, as the country's budget has enough funds to cover the deal ," Korotchenko said. Moscow has already provided Caracas with several loans to buy Russian-made weaponry, including a recent $2.2-mln loan on the purchase of 92 T-72M1M tanks, the Smerch multiple-launch rocket systems and other military equipment.

If Iran, therefore, cannot get the S-300 missiles directly from Russia, it can still have them through its proxy, Venezuela, and deploy them against its staunchest enemy, the U.S..

But that is not all. According to Reuters, Iran has developed a version of the Russian S-300 missile and will test-fire it soon, as declared by the official news agency IRNA, two months after Moscow cancelled the delivery to comply with United Nations sanctions[3]. Iran, in fact, has its own capabilities for constructing missiles that could carry atomic warheads. According to a study recently released by the International Institute of Strategic Studies in London, Iran is presently aiming to perfect the already existing solid-fuel, medium-range missile that can carry a nuke to hit regional targets, such as Israel[4]. If a missile base can be opened in Venezuela, many US cities will be able to be reached from there even with short-medium range missiles.

The situation that is unfolding in Venezuela has some resemblance to the Cuba crisis of 1962. At that time, Cuba was acting on behalf of the USSR; now Venezuela is acting on behalf of Iran. At present, the geopolitical situation is very different: the world is no longer ruled by two superpowers; new nations, often with questionable leaders and the ambition of acquiring global status, are appearing on the international scene. Their danger to the free world will be greater if the process of nuclear proliferation is not stopped. Among the nations that aspire to become world powers, Iran has certainly the best capabilities of posing a challenge to the West.

Back in the 1962, thanks to the stern stance adopted by the then Kennedy administration, the crisis was defused

Nowadays, however, we do not see the same firmness from the present administration. On the contrary, we see a lax attitude, both in language and in deeds, that results in extending hands when our adversaries have no intention of shaking hands with us. Iran is soon going to have a nuclear weapon, and there are no signs that UN sanctions will in any way deter the Ayatollah's regime from completing its nuclear program. We know that Iran already has missiles that can carry an atomic warhead over Israel and over the Arabian Peninsula. Now we learn that Iran is planning to build a missile base close to the US borders. How longer do we have to wait before the Obama administration begins to understand threats?
PressTV said:
Venezuelan arms depot blast kills oneA fire at a Venezuelan arms depot has set off a series of blasts that killed one, causing the police to evacuate approximately 10,000 from the city of Maracay.
The initial explosion occurred at 4:45 a.m. (0845 GMT) and small explosions continued throughout Sunday morning.

All residents living within five kilometers (3.1 miles) of the depot have been evacuated.

The explosions are thought to have been triggered by a fire, although the cause still remains unclear.

Aragua State Governor Rafael Isea said that a woman nearby the depot had been killed by the explosions.

He also said that around 40 people were initially reported injured. Three of them, however, have been treated at the hospital for injures caused by traffic accidents amid the chaos, the Associated Press reported.

Venezuela's military arms manufacturer, CAVIM, stated that the arms depot is being surrounded by authorities “to control the situation.”

A chain of smaller blasts with munitions explosions has been preventing emergency personnel from reaching the facility.

Isea said that firefighters were preparing an attempt to extinguish the fires as soon as the explosions subsided.

Interior Minister Tareck El Aissami said on national television, "All government agencies, civil protection services, and fire departments are currently working in the area. The situation has not yet been brought under control."

Venezuelan Communication and Information Minister Andres Izarra has urged the public to remain calm, Xinhua reported.
It appears that Iran had missiles stored that CIA agents got a hold of. These missiles in their storage were bombed and destroyed. Aside from these missiles Venezuela really doesn't have any assets stockpiled.
 

SASWanabe

Member
It appears that Iran had missiles stored that CIA agents got a hold of. These missiles in their storage were bombed and destroyed. Aside from these missiles Venezuela really doesn't have any assets stockpiled.
HUH? where did you get any of that from those sources?
 

NICO

New Member
It appears that Iran had missiles stored that CIA agents got a hold of. These missiles in their storage were bombed and destroyed. Aside from these missiles Venezuela really doesn't have any assets stockpiled...............Now we learn that Iran is planning to build a missile base close to the US borders. How longer do we have to wait before the Obama administration begins to understand threats?
You do realize that from Caracas to Florida there's about 1500 miles,right? Not sure you can say VZ is "close to US". Shahab 3 probably can make it to Florida,maybe. All the missiles are probably going to be pointed towards Colombia,IMO.

Since you seem so well connected to CIA, care to share more info on CIA activities in VZ? Do you any info on CIA activities in Egypt? :D
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Ibzian these claims require some very serious sources.

I'll be honest I seriously doubt Venezuela is this insane.
 

My2Cents

Active Member
Does anyone have a list of the weapons that CAVIM manufactures?

I have not found anything substantial, but stumbled on an announcement that they had just contracted for a large quantity of ball powder. Apparently they are now the world’s largest (and possibly the only) manufacturer of 7.62x39mm ammo, thanks to Chavez’s decision to go with that caliber.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Ibizan where are you getting your information? Do you undersatnd the meaning of the word sources?
 

Preceptor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Have looked into the sources for the post.

The article referenced itself does not make any mention of CIA operations vs. facilities in Venezuela.

Further, the site itself is "questionable" in terms of reliability, and the information about an Iranian or joint Iranian/Venezuelan facility comes from another questionable source.

So far, there appears to be nothing more substantial than rumors that there is an agreement between Iran and Venezuela regarding missile production and basing. Interestingly, the time frame for the agreement is ~3 months ago, which is typically not enough time for such a facility to be setup and then have the missiles ship.

Also, long-ranged missiles are not easy to hide when loading, unloading or transporting them. Given the embargo against Iran, as well as the restrictions on non-proliferation of long-ranged weaponry, as well as possible US concerns stemming from the Monroe Doctrine, I would have expected reputable US-based news sources to have commented on an Iran-Venezuela agreement.

As such, I place little credence in the "source", never mind the below statement.
It appears that Iran had missiles stored that CIA agents got a hold of. These missiles in their storage were bombed and destroyed. Aside from these missiles Venezuela really doesn't have any assets stockpiled.

Provide proof of claims from reputable sources, or retract them.
-Preceptor
 

Ibizan Hound

Banned Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
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PressTV is far more credible than any Anglo-Western site such as MSNBC where agents create attacks then circulate them for the media or those Jewish propaganda sites that boast we will miss Mubarak, but then later reveal they advised him to step down. Two wrong opinions dn't override the reality that most people respect my sources than Western Propaganda sites.

Admin: Text Deleted. Whether you are passionate about what you believe in is completely separate from the fact that any Mod is entitled to seek confirmation of sources. It is unacceptable to backchat any Mod performing their job. Read the forum rules before responding to this thread. There are just as many anti-american and anti-jewish "propoganda sites" so appealing to the notion of propoganda sites just because they are western, or just because they don't subscribe to your own point of view doesn't wash either.

a source is a source. its up to the inidividual to make a detemination. making derogatory comments about other nations, other races is offensive in anyones language


Warning issued
 
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Beatmaster

New Member
Preceptor,

You said:
Also, long-ranged missiles are not easy to hide when loading, unloading or transporting them. Given the embargo against Iran, as well as the restrictions on non-proliferation of long-ranged weaponry, as well as possible US concerns stemming from the Monroe Doctrine, I would have expected reputable US-based news sources to have commented on an Iran-Venezuela agreement.

Regardless the embargo's against Iran and the restrictions on non-proliferation of LR Weaponry, you have to understand that Iran is avoiding and bypassing these sanctions and agreements for the past years.
Venezuala is one of the most important proxies for Iran to get their stuff done.
So regardless if this article contains any truth (It does to some degree as there are several newspapers and webpages confirming large sections of the post made by the topic starter) it would make total sense if hugo chaves did allow Iran to create a base and stockpile weapons on venezuala's soil.
As this will add another layer of difficulty and danger to the US and the surounding nations, keep in mind france, netherlands, uk, colombia, mexico as most of them are not exactly friends to hugo chaves and no friends of iran.
Both US and EU did have a hard time to keep taps on Iran and Venezuala and by allowing Iran on VZ soil things aint going to be easier, specially because russia is backing hugo to some degree.
Eventually both Iran and VZ will pay a grave prize for their actions but until then they are like a "angry" cat jumping from one corner to another to avoid the limits set by UN sanctions.
The effects of this remain seen so far however we all can agree that this is not a favorable situation as it closely looks like a cuba crisis in the making.
And imo this should be avoided as iam not sure that today's minds and leaders are strong enough to face a challenge this big.

Btw you said that information sources should be reputable US-based news sources however the are enough sources out there some are just dumb propaganda, but i consider news papers like the welt and der spiegel pretty darn credible, also various UK based and other EU based news papers printed a similair topic.

Preceptor said:
Provide proof of claims from reputable sources, or retract them.
-Preceptor
[Mod Edit: Note Preceptor said reputable sources NOT reputable US-based news sources. Apparently you cannot read, therefore I have quoted Preceptor's exact words again for your reference. BTW, you've committed two further sins. One, unnecessary back-talk to a Mod Post by Preceptor. Two, you are commenting on a Mod post not addressed to you even. This can be seen as trolling (by other members of the Mod Team). If you had genuine concerns, it could be taken off-line with the Mod concerned.

Therefore, you are officially warned that any further back-talk by you. Further, any misinterpretation of a Mod's post by you, deliberate or otherwise, will result in an administrative sanction. ]


Altrough the topic starter did add some of his own to the posts most of it seems to be correct as major news papers print nearly the same.
Just a observation ^^
 
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kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Oh please.

Someone should now go and dig out the exact text of the 2006 "El Universal" article that that Springer Schmierblatt Welt copied it off. Anyone with access to a library in Caracas?

And, for fun, possibly also the "2001" article from one week later that supposedly spun it into a delivery of nuclear weapons from Iran to Venezuela. ;)
 

SABRE

Super Moderator
Verified Defense Pro
For me the whole affairs starts from "making little sense" to being "completely nonsense."

1. Iran would be committing international suicide if it attempted any such adventure at this point. U.S would prefer CIA to take pictures and put them in front of international community instead of blowing up an arms depot. That will block international cooperation with Iran and force China and Russia to accept sanctions on Iran. COMPLETE ISOLATION. (Remember Cuban Missile Crisis).

2. Sending medium or long range missile which do not have nuclear warhead is laughable. A millions of dollars worth missile with conventional warheads will only do an insignificant damage or destruction. & in retaliation Iran & Venezuela will get a kick in the behind that will hurt for ages and generations. To put it simple, it will have no deterrent capability and credibility.

3. Missiles (what ever be the range) are hard to detect when mounted on TEL due to their mobility, but are most likely going to be detected and caught during shipment, considering the Mega Port Initiative (MPI) implemented in many countries and Proliferation Security Initiative (PSI) in place.

4. Iran's missile strategy is based on massive strikes by ballistic missiles mounted with conventional warheads against Israel as a deterrent. Regardless of what they say they haven't got many to gift them around to their friends. Any deduction in deployed missiles would be deduction in the already questionable deterrence.
 

Beatmaster

New Member
@ OPSSG

lol, wel regarding the backtalk i did not realize that Preceptor was a mod therefore my sorry, and it was not my intention to sound like a troll.

Preceptor said reputable sources NOT reputable US-based news sources. Apparently you cannot read
It seems i missed something.

Anyway long story short for the sins commited i say sorry as i did not know / see.

Back on topic:
Lets say for this moment that the topic itself is true...what result would that have to the relations between Iran, VZ and the western world? I mean for example the US aint going to trow a party to celebrate this.
And if its true what sabre said then this whole thing would be a usless thing to both VZ and Iran, so why bother to try something like this anyway?
We all know that Iran is not acting for their own good, but why put oil on a already raging fire?
 

Spetsznaz

New Member
@SABRE

This is to add to you point 2#
If they do attempt to make an attack with a missile(s) armed with conventional warheads, then (as you have stated) they have very few to give away to VZ, and I don't think those missile(s) if launched will go undetected by the US and will probably be intercepted on there way, and all that would happen is Iran and VZ would really piss the US off and lose the few ballistic missile(s) they have.
 

SABRE

Super Moderator
Verified Defense Pro
@SABRE

This is to add to you point 2#
If they do attempt to make an attack with a missile(s) armed with conventional warheads, then (as you have stated) they have very few to give away to VZ, and I don't think those missile(s) if launched will go undetected by the US and will probably be intercepted on there way, and all that would happen is Iran and VZ would really piss the US off and lose the few ballistic missile(s) they have.
Add another argument to it. Iran & VZ will loose their existence. U.S response may likely be a nuclear attack after seeing incoming ballistic missiles.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Not to mention Venezuela can hardly afford the modernization program they've got running right now.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Add another argument to it. Iran & VZ will loose their existence. U.S response may likely be a nuclear attack after seeing incoming ballistic missiles.
I doubt it will be nuclear. Not only are those missiles likely to be intercepted, the conditions within which they were to be launched would have to include an in progress US invasion of Venezuela.
 

SABRE

Super Moderator
Verified Defense Pro
I doubt it will be nuclear. Not only are those missiles likely to be intercepted, the conditions within which they were to be launched would have to include an in progress US invasion of Venezuela.
Assuming that only handful of missiles would be deployed and launched, interception might be somewhat simple.

As far as invasion is concerned, unless there is a popular support for U.S to overthrow Chavez I don't think U.S could afford to invade VZ, especially with U.S busy in Afghanistan (and Iraq). I see only two options if we go by this argument:

i) Nuke Iran &/or VZ (a very difficult choice)
or
ii) massive air strikes against VZ military establishment.

Personally I think 2nd option is more possible.
 

Beatmaster

New Member
So in short said serious strikes on VZ's home soil might be a acceptable option?
But where does that leave the NATO allies? As sabre said US is spread thin due its deployment worldwide.....what could the NATO allies do?

Because to my understanding (Correct me if wrong) VZ is being supported and armed by Russia as there are several deals going on.
Would Russia allow the west to take actions against their lets call it friendly contact as i do not believe that VZ is a real ally of Russia.
Given the tentions in asia and in the middle east does this issue generate addition difficulties to contain Iran, as we all have to understand that both will seek ways to make the west look bad and justify their actions.
Another thing that should be thinked of is that if the US wants to invade iran to stop its regime from going the nuke way, it still will face numerous serious problems, so a mass action against VZ might be put down as a example to make tehran understand that the so called red line has been crossed imo.
 
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