America vs China

[long live usa]

(no politicaly charged posts pleas)but the qeastion im asking is what do you guys think would happen if there was a total war between china and America with naval forces,air forces,and land troops think of the land atack coming out of eastern india(An american invasion of china since it would be impossible to invade America chinese fleet would not dare leave land based air power ie badgers with anit ship missle's)so what do you guys think it would be like?

 

[faheem]

I don,t know much but i think that if there starts a war between Usa and China.The present china is not in a position to attack Usa with its navy.Yes its missiles can hit Usa as the Central Intelligence Agency confirmed in 1998 that in addition having over 600 nuclear weapons, China has at least 13 nuclear-armed ICBMs aimed at the United States. Each one is capable of destroying major U.S. cities.
The Usa is in a position that it can attack China due to its presence of its forces around china. Usa has a very Strong Naval power due to which it can shores of China and its naval forces will also have help from the land forces present in South Korea and it can also use Japan.
The Usa can also cut of its energy supllies which moslty are throug Aisa pacific and as chinese forces are not present in this region he will have no chance of defending them.
Now China due to this threat is develping the Gawader port of Pakistan.Which will help chinese to defened any strike at its Ships.
China now a days is not so big threat for Usa.But it will be a very much big threat to Usa in the near future.

 

[DarthAmerica]

(no politicaly charged posts pleas)but the qeastion im asking is what do you guys think would happen if there was a total war between china and America with naval forces,air forces,and land troops think of the land atack coming out of eastern india(An american invasion of china since it would be impossible to invade America chinese fleet would not dare leave land based air power ie badgers with anit ship missle's)so what do you guys think it would be like?

Good topic IMV. But if you could expand a little bit on "why" and "what" the US and China would be fighting over it would help to have an idea of the types of operations that would take place.

I can tell you right off though that the Chinese would be very vulnerable to having the USN cut off their SLOC. Also within 7 to 14 days the PLAN even under the cover of land based air would with the exception of a few SSK's be destroyed. To make things worse, some key pieces of key CHinese military and civilian infrastructure would be under constant threat of bombardment.

The Chinese would be limited to naval guerrilla war tactics using surviving submarines and aircraft to snipe at US Naval or Civilian shipping that strayed too close to PRC waters. They COULD also use their ballistic missiles to target regional US/Allied bases. But then that would expand the scope of the conflict.

I am concluding that direct conflict with the is not a viable option for the PRC for at least 20 years and that assumes they continue to arm themselves at the current pace.

 

[Big-E]

I think our SM-3s and 747 chemical lasers could shoot down many of the PLAs nukes. Some would get thru but we would survive. We would lay waste to the entire country if it ever got that far. But keeping this strictly conventional, the PLAN wouldn't last 5 hours against the USN. The PLAF would put up more of a fight without the US having F-35s or F-22s but would eventually fall due to poor AWACS capability. The PLA on the otherhand would be a much tougher nut to crack, with US troop levels as low as they are there is no way we could take a country as large as China without a huge draft. As seen with the troubles in Iraq, there is absolutly no way we could defeat China in a ground war on their turf.

 

[Vigilante]

USA vs China

Before we even think about such war why don't we find out why our marines are not having ground support from our so call super gunships (apache helicopters) whenever is needed in Irak or Afganistan

 

[long live usa]

well to answer that qeustion ill ask another are atack heli copters useful anymore?this may also be dew to the fact that most of the cowerdly ambushes carried out on American troops are done in urban areas and the civilian risk may be to high (i have never heard of our troops being atacked in the middle of the dessert)but back to America vs china!the PLAA and PLAN would be wiped out very soon but the PLA would be very hard to beat i once read that the t-99 was superior to MIA2 abrams:hitwall (i think this is a dubius report!!)but anyway those t-99s are only in small batch production and the PLA would be bombarded heavily by superior and victorous American air forces i dont know how long the PLAA would survive becouse the f/22a raptor only 30 or so have been built but f-35 could be launched at will from carriers because the PLAN could not hold out for more than 2 days against the USN dont know about the subs a ground war altough bloody would eventually be won by America

 

[Big-E]

well to answer that qeustion ill ask another are atack heli copters useful anymore?this may also be dew to the fact that most of the cowerdly ambushes carried out on American troops are done in urban areas and the civilian risk may be to high (i have never heard of our troops being atacked in the middle of the dessert)but back to America vs china!the PLAA and PLAN would be wiped out very soon but the PLA would be very hard to beat i once read that the t-99 was superior to MIA2 abrams:hitwall (i think this is a dubius report!!)but anyway those t-99s are only in small batch production and the PLA would be bombarded heavily by superior and victorous American air forces i dont know how long the PLAA would survive becouse the f/22a raptor only 30 or so have been built but f-35 could be launched at will from carriers because the PLAN could not hold out for more than 2 days against the USN dont know about the subs a ground war altough bloody would eventually be won by America

I only disagree with the ground war, I have no doubt we could wipe out their conventional army, but when they switch to guerilla tactics it would take more manpower than we have in the selective service to get the most populus country on earth under control. We are going to be using the FCS which will help against guerilla tactics but we will never have enough of the capability to issue to all the draftees required.

 

[Aussie]

(no politicaly charged posts pleas)but the qeastion im asking is what do you guys think would happen if there was a total war between china and America

Mutual Assured Destruction. Plus free order of Pork Fried Rice with purchase over $20.

 

[DarthAmerica]

Mutual Assured Destruction. Plus free order of Pork Fried Rice with purchase over $20.

There would be nothing mutual about the destruction. China has approximately two dozen primitive ICBMs of questionable reliability and accuracy that could hit CONUS after one to two hours of prep time not counting for losses to missile defences.

 

[hesidu]

In my opinion, war is not just comparing of high technical weapon and nation strength between two conflict side. Let me explain something. As a Chinese i don't think China is preparing a full-scale war between USA. So let's consider a war USA invade China. First, this war must have a causation. We Chinese can find out the conflict point, and try to solve the problem, find a win-win position with USA. Than this war won't happen. Second, if we failed to find a win-win position, we can use our political, diplomatic and economic means to prevent USA starting such a war(You can find there are many ways to achieve this). So in these two situation, we win the war(this doesn't means USA is defeated). This is what Chinese classic tactic called "full win of war" which means the most successfull result of war.

 

[Big-E]

In my opinion, war is not just comparing of high technical weapon and nation strength between two conflict side. Let me explain something. As a Chinese i don't think China is preparing a full-scale war between USA. So let's consider a war USA invade China. First, this war must have a causation. We Chinese can find out the conflict point, and try to solve the problem, find a win-win position with USA. Than this war won't happen. Second, if we failed to find a win-win position, we can use our political, diplomatic and economic means to prevent USA starting such a war(You can find there are many ways to achieve this). So in these two situation, we win the war(this doesn't means USA is defeated). This is what Chinese classic tactic called "full win of war" which means the most successfull result of war.

I think the only real scenerio over a Sino/American conflict would be over Taiwan. . . considering Bush so much as said so. . . In this event it would be conventional, I think Taiwan would be blockaded by Chinese subs which would be sunk by US fast attacks. Then China launches a cruise missle strike on Taiwan to prep for invasion which I think causes some damage to the islands defenses. Then China doesn't land enough troops due to poor amphibious capabilities and the rest get sunk crossing the straights. . . End of war.

 

[hesidu]

I think the only real scenerio over a Sino/American conflict would be over Taiwan. . . considering Bush so much as said so. . . In this event it would be conventional, I think Taiwan would be blockaded by Chinese subs which would be sunk by US fast attacks. Then China launches a cruise missle strike on Taiwan to prep for invasion which I think causes some damage to the islands defenses. Then China doesn't land enough troops due to poor amphibious capabilities and the rest get sunk crossing the straights. . . End of war.

I agree with you. Taiwan is the conflict point certainly. But considering Taiwan's recent political situation, it wouldn't state independence. so the war you mentioned is not approached. In the furture, if Taiwan do state independence, there are still many ways to stop USA from intervening. The worst situation, if USA's intervention can't avoidable, I don't think China will "play card" as you described above. Washington will find Beijing's totally noncooperation in international affairs. North Korea and Iran will test nuke weapon and long-range missiles. Afghanistan's terrorists will be seemed much more active. Some South America countries will have nonnormal action. Some EU members will negative on Washington's military activity.Thousands of troops and hundreds of missiles will deployed in north China borderline to stop South Korea and Japan from fully intervening. Missiles will also be added in south china military bases to stop South Asia countries to cooperate will America. China will test new nuke weapon and sign a more intimate treaty with Russia. Then,Washington's decision-maker will realise there are more urgent affairs to solve than Taiwan-strait. And they will try to negotiate will Beijing and press on Taiwan's political leader to retract their independence statement.

 

[Big-E]

I agree with you. Taiwan is the conflict point certainly. But considering Taiwan's recent political situation, it wouldn't state independence. so the war you mentioned is not approached. In the furture, if Taiwan do state independence, there are still many ways to stop USA from intervening. The worst situation, if USA's intervention can't avoidable, I don't think China will "play card" as you described above. Washington will find Beijing's totally noncooperation in international affairs. North Korea and Iran will test nuke weapon and long-range missiles. Afghanistan's terrorists will be seemed much more active. Some South America countries will have nonnormal action. Some EU members will negative on Washington's military activity.Thousands of troops and hundreds of missiles will deployed in north China borderline to stop South Korea and Japan from fully intervening. Missiles will also be added in south china military bases to stop South Asia countries to cooperate will America. China will test new nuke weapon and sign a more intimate treaty with Russia. Then,Washington's decision-maker will realise there are more urgent affairs to solve than Taiwan-strait. And they will try to negotiate will Beijing and press on Taiwan's political leader to retract their independence statement.

If I remember from the polls Taiwan is moving ever more to reunification. I don't think it will be too much longer till they reach some kind of an agreement. By the time they do China won't be so contained as they are at the moment. They are a giant waiting to burst out, once they start operating CBGs they will be a true global power. They will do this to protect shipping of the ever dwindling supply of oil exports. Now that the PROC is taking US oil over in Venezuela and other traditional US markets, I think this might be a future area of contention.

 

[Vigilante]

well to answer that qeustion ill ask another are atack heli copters useful anymore?this may also be dew to the fact that most of the cowerdly ambushes carried out on American troops are done in urban ar

You need to tell this the marines that were attack for hours right after their chinook helicopter were shotdown in the Afgan mountains :mad3

 

[hesidu]

If I remember from the polls Taiwan is moving ever more to reunification. I don't think it will be too much longer till they reach some kind of an agreement. By the time they do China won't be so contained as they are at the moment. They are a giant waiting to burst out, once they start operating CBGs they will be a true global power. They will do this to protect shipping of the ever dwindling supply of oil exports. Now that the PROC is taking US oil over in Venezuela and other traditional US markets, I think this might be a future area of contention.

Yes, Taiwan's political environment seems somewhat impenetrable. As far as I considered, Taiwan's independence progress can't break through before 2008. By then the low-maker of Taiwan will be re-elected. This will give the parties which interested in independence chance to gain majority in their parliament. But recent report suggested that the radicals of independence are losing support of civlian. The superiority seems leaning to mainland China, we should wait and see.

 

[Vigilante]

Not a chance.....

(no politicaly charged posts pleas)but the qeastion im asking is what do you guys think would happen if there was a total war between china and America with naval forces,air forces,and land troops think of the land atack coming out of eastern india(An american invasion of china since it would be impossible to invade America chinese fleet would not dare leave land based air power ie badgers with anit ship missle's)so what do you guys think it would be like?

A pragmatic analysis of scenario of a arms conflict between China and USA over the Taiwan Indicate that an conventional air war will dictate the pause In wich american air carriers will be sunk within the first 72 hours and Chinese air defense forces will suffer 65 percent loses....It is obvious that USA and China will never will go into a conflict that could weaken their defences in such masive amount....

 

[DarthAmerica]

A pragmatic analysis of scenario of a arms conflict between China and USA over the Taiwan Indicate that an conventional air war will dictate the pause In wich american air carriers will be sunk within the first 72 hours and Chinese air defense forces will suffer 65 percent loses....It is obvious that USA and China will never will go into a conflict that could weaken their defences in such masive amount....

Which analysis is this that says WILL BE?

 

[Big-E]

A pragmatic analysis of scenario of a arms conflict between China and USA over the Taiwan Indicate that an conventional air war will dictate the pause In wich american air carriers will be sunk within the first 72 hours and Chinese air defense forces will suffer 65 percent loses....It is obvious that USA and China will never will go into a conflict that could weaken their defences in such masive amount....

How do you figure the carriers would be sunk? There is no Chinese sub quiet enough to sneak up on a CBG. AEGIS will shoot down any ASMs coming from Badgers and I doubt if they will get close enough to a Sovremmeny's Sunburn missles.

 

[long live usa]

i dont see how russia could help china at least not nearly as much as japan could help America we already have 17 ships their with a carrier strike group i also believe that if there were not so many restrictions being placed on japans military that they could become a major global power there navy is the 3rd largest and they are looking at buying f/22a raptors also i dont think the north koreans could be of much assistance to china, and with chinas navy their is no way their going to be sinking any carriers any badjers coming in would be slaugtered unless they had fighter escort and aegis cruisers would take care of thier ASMs

 

[DarthAmerica]

Sinking Carriers

Folks I just want to add that sinking a carrier does not result in ultimate victory for the PRC. The Japanese sunk some carriers, they lost. Like a shark, the DoD has many teeth of which the Carrier is one. And like a shark there are many teeth to take the place of ones that are lost. In the case of the Carriers, 12.