THE SUPER-7 BEFORE FC-1/JF-17

[SABRE]

This is what Super-7 was supose to look like before US pulled out from the project.

 

[SABRE]

You can also c a drop tank which we have not yet seen FC-1/JF-17 carrying

 

[jupitor]

looks more like F-20 Tiger Shark

 

[SABRE]

Its more closely related to Chines J-8ll in looks

 

[armage]

Looks almost the same as the FC-1, except the FC-1 looks way better

 

[P.A.F]

now the first picture is what u call ugly :alian [/url]

 

[mysterious]

The first picture really looks like a toy. An aircraft destined to fight the bulk of the battles should have a meaner look is what I think. :smokingc:

 

[SABRE]

It looks more like a Trainer with weapons on board & probably it was made to train the test pilots for FC-1.

If this was supose to be the actual super-7 than the world is best off with Mirage3,5, F-4, F-5 & MiG-21.

 

[highsea]

You need to remember that the Super-7 project was originally an upgrade of the J-7 (Mig 21). This picture of the first prototype was still a Mig-21 airframe, it just had a different nosecone and the inlets were moved to the sides.

When Russia offered the project-33 to China, the Mig-21 airframe was scrapped and the FC-1/JF-17 was based on the newer airframe of the project-33.

 

[SABRE]

ATTENTION:

Only the 1st pic is off Super-7, the 2nd is off F-8Mll. So dnt confuse ur self. 2 different ACs.

 

[highsea]

Only the 1st pic is off Super-7, the 2nd is off F-8Mll. So dnt confuse ur self. 2 different ACs.

I'm not sure why you posted the J-8 picture anyway, it's a very different AC than the topic of your thread, even though they both have Mig-21 heritage (J-8 being an enlargement to accomodate twin engines).

So to clarify...The first picture in this thread, is the first prototype of the Super-7. This AC is based on a Mig-21 airframe, and was a joint project with Xian and Grumman.

The FC-1/JF-17 is based on the Mig "project-33" airframe, a very different airframe from the Super-7 pictured here. After Grumman bailed out, the FC-1 project went into limbo until Mikoyan revived it with the new airframe.

 

[SABRE]

Only the 1st pic is off Super-7, the 2nd is off F-8Mll. So dnt confuse ur self. 2 different ACs.

I'm not sure why you posted the J-8 picture anyway, it's a very different AC than the topic of your thread, even though they both have Mig-21 heritage (J-8 being an enlargement to accomodate twin engines).

So to clarify...The first picture in this thread, is the first prototype of the Super-7. This AC is based on a Mig-21 airframe, and was a joint project with Xian and Grumman.

The FC-1/JF-17 is based on the Mig "project-33" airframe, a very different airframe from the Super-7 pictured here. After Grumman bailed out, the FC-1 project went into limbo until Mikoyan revived it with the new airframe.

I was comparing the pics. I was sayin may be both projects served similar purpose or were almost similar. One based completely on Chinese design while other being a joint venture. & thats what it seems like.

 

[mysterious]

Both of you are correct in what you are saying. So relax! Highsea just gave a nice jist of what that first pic is all about and how the Jf-17 took its current design. :smokingc:

 

[ultrafang]

:eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek US was not in the Super 7 projet. US was going to be in it but it was cancel it. So pakistan join in the projet by giving money to China. This is how a JF-17 looks like
http://www.defencetalk.com/pictures/thumbnails.php?album=238
Here is a some more information about it.
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/fc1.asp
AND READ IT!!!!!

 

[highsea]

US was not in the Super 7 projet.

From the sinodefence article:

In 1986 China signed a US$550 million agreement with Grumman to modernise its J-7 (MiG-21 Fishbed) fighter aircraft under the "Super-7" upgrade project. Western companies from the US and Britain were competing to provide the engine and avionics. The project was cancelled in early 1990, in the wake of the cooling of political relations with the West, as well as in response to a 40% increase in the cost of the project. However, Chengdu managed to continue the programme with its own resources and the project was re-branded as FC-1 (Fighter China-1).

The US was very much involved in the initial project. The Tiananmen Square incident and sebsequent sanctions put an end to US involvement. The project sat in limbo for 7 or 8 years until the JV with Pakistan and the offer from Mikoyan (Project-33) revived it in 1999. The Project 33 design was well advanced in Russia when it was cancelled, which is why China was able to switch airframes without starting over from scratch.

There is a great deal of information here on the AC, you might want to read the JF-17 threads.

And please try to control yourself with the smilies and caps. They do nothing to advance your argument.

 

[ultrafang]

US was not in the Super 7 projet.

From the sinodefence article:

In 1986 China signed a US$550 million agreement with Grumman to modernise its J-7 (MiG-21 Fishbed) fighter aircraft under the "Super-7" upgrade project. Western companies from the US and Britain were competing to provide the engine and avionics. The project was cancelled in early 1990, in the wake of the cooling of political relations with the West, as well as in response to a 40% increase in the cost of the project. However, Chengdu managed to continue the programme with its own resources and the project was re-branded as FC-1 (Fighter China-1).

The US was very much involved in the initial project. The Tiananmen Square incident and sebsequent sanctions put an end to US involvement. The project sat in limbo for 7 or 8 years until the JV with Pakistan and the offer from Mikoyan (Project-33) revived it in 1999. The Project 33 design was well advanced in Russia when it was cancelled, which is why China was able to switch airframes without starting over from scratch.

There is a great deal of information here on the AC, you might want to read the JF-17 threads.

And please try to control yourself with the smilies and caps. They do nothing to advance your argument.

Yes the US was initialy involved in the project but they cancel it out. The Super 7 design was made by China it self with out help of the US.

 

[SABRE]

:eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek US was not in the Super 7 projet. US was going to be in it but it was cancel it. So pakistan join in the projet by giving money to China. This is how a JF-17 looks like
http://www.defencetalk.com/pictures/thumbnails.php?album=238
Here is a some more information about it.
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/fc1.asp
AND READ IT!!!!!

huhh (Sigh) !

Ur new here, u haf no idea how big a discussion we have had on this forum on FC/JF-17. Go back few pages & u'll c it.

1st;US was very much in it but due to political crisses in China they pulled out & u know they story, as highsea has already pointed out, if not go to sinodefence.

2;We also know what JF-17 looks like, we even have a video. Go to download section & u ll c it.

3;If u pay attention to the heading of the topic u ll know what we r discussing. The picture is off Super-7 before it was changed to FC-1/JF-17 & the whole design was changed.

 

[roadrunner]

Originally posted by highsea
The US was very much involved in the initial project. The Tiananmen Square incident and sebsequent sanctions put an end to US involvement. The project sat in limbo for 7 or 8 years until the JV with Pakistan and the offer from Mikoyan (Project-33) revived it in 1999. The Project 33 design was well advanced in Russia when it was cancelled, which is why China was able to switch airframes without starting over from scratch.

That's basically my understanding of it, except that the 1999 JV with Pakistan was a continuation of the super seven JV which began in the mid-90s.

PS. My first post, so go easy on me

 

[SABRE]

Compre the pic of JF-17 with F-7 & F-20, u'll notice it resembles more to F-20 than to a F-7 with a nose.