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Very high voltage transformers vs Occident

This is a discussion on Very high voltage transformers vs Occident within the Geo-strategic Issues forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Hi, I'm new in the forum, I hope this is the good section for post this question. I think very ...


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Old April 1st, 2012   #1
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Very high voltage transformers vs Occident

Hi, I'm new in the forum, I hope this is the good section for post this question.

I think very high voltage transformers is Achilles' heel of Occident. There are 3 possibilities to destroy high voltage transformers (and Occident) :

1/ A big solar eruption, the last is in 1859, big enough for destroy some electronic composant and maybe high voltage transformers. When ? Nobody can say that.

2/ An explosion of high altitude of a nuclear bomb, with 2 possibilities E1 or E3 impuls, the E3 impuls could destroy all cores of transformers and wires too. Someone who want to destroy all high voltage transformers need a nuclear bomb and a high altitude missile. This reduce the possibility at some coutries.

3/ Burn all very high voltage transformers. This is a very easy method, no need technology, just fuel, people and organization. More easy because there is oil in transformers which help to burn them. Start to burn very high voltage transformers and burn others after. Fire is great technolgy but the worst in wrongs hands ! In France, there is only 268 very high voltage transformers [400 000V] (but only 138 areas), it's not enough I think.

What happened when all high voltage transformers are burnt ? No water in cities in 3 days. No fuel. No heating. No food in three weeks, no job. Just with that FEMA said without electricity 85% of Americans will die in 10 years in case of a very big NEMP (FEMA said it need 10 years for replace all transformers). But the worst is the nuclear plants, without electricity they become like Fukushima in some hours. Sure, like that Occident is dead.

Sure this will destroy not only Occident due to the radiations. But if Occident is the target the goal will reached. I'm not sure Occident is prepared for that and I'm not sure government can prevent this attack. Have we transformers in stock ? Have we a strategy for this attack ?

Are you agree with that and what do you think government can do something for prevent this ?
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Old April 4th, 2012   #2
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First off -- What is 'Occident'?
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Old April 4th, 2012   #3
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First off -- What is 'Occident'?
In Spanish, "Occidente" ( with a "e" at the end) means "West", is used as synonymous of "West", "Oriente" means "East" and "occidente" is broadly used as word to describe America, and Europe countries and societies, the opposite, "oriente", refers to anything from Middle East to Asia, guess is referring to "western" countries and societies, the USA, Europe in general, oh just found that "occident" is a French word for West, same root I guess as Spanish.

Regarding the transformers itself, high voltage is used to transport energy without the need of really thick wires, as far as I know everybody does it that way, I mean Western and Eastern, sure it will cause real damage to any country power grid a coordinated attack on those, but again, unless a country runs exclusively on "steam" is everybody concerns, no just the West.
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Old April 4th, 2012   #4
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Actually the guy is French and refers to l'occident. Same meaning though.

And i'd really raise my eyebrow at a terrorist attack taking out sufficient capacity to bring an entire energy network comparable to what we have in Europe down. Sure, in the USA that may be possible due to lack of networked redundancy, but over here you just reroute.

No water in the cities without electricity? Over here we'll just switch to pumping water by hand from the 5,000 emergency wells drilled for wartime. No fuel? Something's seriously wrong with your refineries. No food? Due to what - we're considerably outproducing demand anyway in Europe.

And ten years to build a couple thousand transformer stations? Right, if we take current "peacetime" manpower and production as the base for the calculation maybe...
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Old April 4th, 2012   #5
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In addition to Kato's posting I would like to mention that at least Germany has impressive grain reserves which would at least reduce the impact of a famine if it dosn't even prevent one from happening in the first place.

IDK if other countrys have similar food reserves, but germany has always had a somewhat high awareness for the need to keep the very basic things running in case of war / serious crisis.
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Old April 5th, 2012   #6
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In a first attack with example in France, we have 138 areas of very high voltage transformers (400 000 V) and 264 transformers. It's not thousands of areas to burn. Need only 1000 people for that. Sure in the same time. See this site:

eureos.net/marche-electricite/fiches-pays/france

Without these transformers, no electricity in France. No heat, no job, no fuel.

For food, we have 2 or 3 months in reserved sure, but it's not main problem. For water, i'm not sure it's so easy to take manual pump, because I'm not sure goverment has think about this problem. Don't forget sewage treatment need electricity and in town/city no water without sewage treatment.

Others attack can burn others lower voltage transformers, it's not possible to secure all areas.

The problem is not food or water even for population this increase problem. The main problem is the nuclear plants. Without electricity in some hours or 2 days they will die like Fukushima. This is possible to give fuel with army for generators but for months ? I'm not sure, because with time a lot of problem coming: no job, no money, no heating, no fuel, limited food, do you think people will stay without do something ? Because some people say in France we have 30000 extremists ready to die if necessary and 1 000 000 people ready to follow these extremists. In France we have only 500 000 people like police, army etc.

Once the problem start I'm not sure we can return to normal life. Especially if goverment has not think about this problem.

I don't know exactly others countries but I think electricity is a problem.

nb: world has only 6 weeks of cereals stock.
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Old April 5th, 2012   #7
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The main problem is the nuclear plants. Without electricity in some hours or 2 days they will die like Fukushima. This is possible to give fuel with army for generators but for months ?
The reactors will have problems if they cannot get power for several days right after they shutdown, but:
  1. The potential problems drop quickly and 3 months after a shutdown commences natural cooling is generally sufficient. This is due to the decay of short lived nuclear isotopes.
  2. There are multiple sources of power available for shutdown, at least 3 and possibly as many as 6, depending on the design. The Japanese plants lost ALL OF THEM, mostly due to the tidal wave that submerged the backup generators and swept away the fuel tanks, as well as destroying the transformers.
  3. If you take out the main transformers without being spotted there will still be at least 2 alternative sources still available for a controlled shutdown. If they do spot you before the unit is tripped they can isolate the unit offline instead and continue to generate internal power for housekeeping almost indefinitely.
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Old April 5th, 2012   #8
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I hope you're right
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Old April 5th, 2012   #9
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nb: world has only 6 weeks of cereals stock.
So? Prioritize fuel reserves for agricultural use (if, and that's a big if, refineries are down) and we can easily last until everything gets back on track.

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If you take out the main transformers without being spotted there will still be at least 2 alternative sources still available for a controlled shutdown.
Plus whatever mobile power supply you mobilize. In the case of Germany that would be several hundred units held ready with units like the THW for general use in addition to about 50 units already pre-positioned at nuclear power stations.
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Old January 25th, 2013   #10
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An interresting link:

fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/R42795.pdf sur www
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