USA Planning 20 Billion $ Arms Sale to Saudi Arabia

SaudiArabian

New Member
U.S. Set to Offer Huge Arms Deal to Saudi Arabia


By DAVID S. CLOUD
Published: July 28, 2007



WASHINGTON, July 27 — The Bush administration is preparing to ask Congress to approve an arms sale package for Saudi Arabia and its neighbors that is expected to eventually total $20 billion at a time when some United States officials contend that the Saudis are playing a counterproductive role in Iraq.

The proposed package of advanced weaponry for Saudi Arabia, which includes advanced satellite-guided bombs, upgrades to its fighters and new naval vessels, has made Israel and some of its supporters in Congress nervous. Senior officials who described the package on Friday said they believed that the administration had resolved those concerns, in part by promising Israel $30.4 billion in military aid over the next decade, a significant increase over what Israel has received in the past 10 years.

But administration officials remained concerned that the size of the package and the advanced weaponry it contains, as well as broader concerns about Saudi Arabia’s role in Iraq, could prompt Saudi critics in Congress to oppose the package when Congress is formally notified about the deal this fall.

In talks about the package, the administration has not sought specific assurances from Saudi Arabia that it would be more supportive of the American effort in Iraq as a condition of receiving the arms package, the officials said.

The officials said the plan to bolster the militaries of Persian Gulf countries is part of an American strategy to contain the growing power of Iran in the region and to demonstrate that, no matter what happens in Iraq, Washington remains committed to its longtime Arab allies. Officials from the State Department and the Pentagon agreed to outline the terms of the deal after some details emerged from closed briefings this week on Capitol Hill.

The officials said Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates, who are to make a joint visit to Saudi Arabia next week, still intended to use the trip to press the Saudis to do more to help Iraq’s Shiite-dominated government.

“The role of the Sunni Arab neighbors is to send a positive, affirmative message to moderates in Iraq in government that the neighbors are with you,” a senior State Department official told reporters in a conference call on Friday. More specifically, the official said, the United States wants the gulf states to make clear to Sunnis engaged in violence in Iraq that such actions are “killing your future.”

In addition to promising an increase in American military aid to Israel, the Pentagon is seeking to ease Israel’s concerns over the proposed weapons sales to Saudi Arabia by asking the Saudis to accept restrictions on the range, size and location of the satellite-guided bombs, including a commitment not to store the weapons at air bases close to Israeli territory, the officials said.

The package and the possible steps to allay Israel’s concerns were described to Congress this week, in an effort by the administration to test the reaction on Capitol Hill before entering into final negotiations on the package with Saudi officials. The Saudis had requested that Congress be told about the planned sale, the officials said, in an effort to avoid the kind of bruising fight on Capitol Hill that occurred in the 1980s over proposed arms sales to the kingdom.

In his visit with King Abdullah and other Saudi officials next week, Mr. Gates plans to describe “what the administration is willing to go forward with” in the arms package and “what we would recommend to the Hill and others,” according to a senior Pentagon official, who conducted a background briefing on the upcoming trip with reporters on Friday.

The official added that Mr. Gates would also reassure the Saudis that “regardless of what happens in the near term in Iraq that our commitment in the region remains firm, remains steadfast and that, in fact, we are looking to enhance and develop it.”

The $20 billion price tag on the package is more than double what officials originally estimated when details became public this spring. Even the higher figure is a rough estimate that could fluctuate depending on the final package, which would be carried out over a number of years, officials said.

Worried about the impression that the United States was starting an arms race in the region, State and Defense Department officials stressed that the arms deal was being proposed largely in response to improvements in Iran’s military capabilities and to counter the threat posed by its nuclear program, which the Bush administration contends is aimed at building nuclear weapons.

Along with Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates are likely to receive equipment and weaponry from the arms sales under consideration, officials said. In general, the United States is interested in upgrading the countries’ air and missile defense systems, improving their navies and making modest improvements in their air forces, administration officials said, though not all the packages would be the same.

Ms. Rice is expected to announce Monday that the administration will open formal discussions with each country about the proposed packages, in hopes of reaching agreements by the fall.

Along with the announcement of formal talks with Persian Gulf allies on the arms package, Ms. Rice is planning to outline the new agreement to provide military aid to Israel, as well as a similar accord with Egypt.

The $30.4 billion being promised to Israel is $9.1 billion more than Israel has received over the past decade, an increase of nearly 43 percent.

A senior administration official said the sizable increase was a result of Israel’s need to replace equipment expended in its war against Hezbollah in Lebanon last summer, as well as to maintain its advantage in advanced weaponry as other countries in the region modernize their forces.

In defending the proposed sale to Saudi Arabia and other gulf states, the officials noted that the Saudis and several of the other countries were in talks with suppliers other than the United States. If the packages offered to them by the United States are blocked or come with too many conditions, the officials said, the Persian Gulf countries could turn elsewhere for similar equipment, reducing American influence in the region.

The United States has made few, if any, sales of satellite-guided munitions to Arab countries in the past, though Israel has received them since the mid-1990s as part of a United States policy of ensuring that Israel has a military edge over its regional rivals.

Israeli officials have made specific requests aimed at eliminating concerns that satellite-guided bombs sold to the Saudis could be used against its territory, administration officials said.

Their major concern is not a full-scale Saudi attack, but the possibility that a rogue pilot armed with one of the bombs could attack on his own or that the Saudi government could one day be overthrown and the weapons could fall into the hands of a more radical regime, officials said.


NewYork Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/28/washington/28weapons.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&hp
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/28/washington/28weapons.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2&hp&oref=slogin
 
or buddy Bush will use his Veto right to make the deal approved :D
In 1986, Congress mustered veto-proof majorities in both chambers and stalled the sale, but eventually the House and Senate leaders cut a deal with President Reagan which allowed some of the missiles to be sold to the Saudis. IMO, this time it will be a lot more difficult to get this deal approve in its current form due the atmosphere in the Congress towards the Saudis.
 

Scorpius

New Member
I think KSA should lean towards Europe a bit much more than the US.
Is the RSAF getting the Eurofighters?or is that too stalled?
 
what missiles been sold to KSA from the US in 1986 ?
Harpoons, Sidewinders, and TOW II antitank missiles (not sure if this was part of the 1986 deal or later on in 1988). Stinger antiaircraft and Maverick antitank missiles had to be taken out as part of a scaled-down package to get Congressional approval.
 

metro

New Member
It's pretty much been a done deal. I'm not sure what Rice and Gates are going to present, other than a piece of paper to sign on the dotted line. Congress is just going through the talking points as they did a few months ago (the election is a few months closer too). I'm pretty sure I posted a couple articles from a while back about it for Izzy. The thing that happened is the UAE primarily, (I saw much bigger numbers than what's being reported now, but maybe the numbers are being broken up among GCC States and/or some $$$ are considered commercial sales) has dropped a ton of money for new stuff around the time of the Paris Air Show.
That needed to be added to the entire equation. Which leads to the, "why do they get that" game.

Now the $$ figures for the Saudis have gone up a good deal, so they're going to get more than the original deal.

Israel isn't holding up anything with the Saudis, that was worked out. "A single rogue pilot," is just as likely to drop a bomb in SA, on Jordan, on (the) US in/around Iraq, etc... The DoD and Pentagon haven't been supportive of the Saudi Sale, mostly because of the stated concern, but to our troops throughout Iraq, and even more so, to our Naval assets that are all over the area. I remember the USN was the first to voice opposition, basically saying that we don't want an accident where a carrier gets sunk. I don't remember the thread it was posted in before.
 

metro

New Member
Theyll probably go to the Russians. Either way they got a ton of money to spend.
[I'm assuming your talking about the Saudis, if not, I apologize],
The Saudis definitely can go to Russia but they would than be using the same stuff as Iran. I'm not sure they want different systems than pretty much everyone else around them. They'd be at the mercy of Russia when it comes to arms sales to Iran-Syria vs. SA. The price of oil is already making people look seriously at alternatives, if Russia starts selling to both Iran and SA, oil will definitely hit the fan and oil will be priced out of the market.

JMO
we'll see?
 

Incognito129

Banned Member
The Saudis are dangling the Russians as "another options" in front of the Congress to get this deal approved. If they are not satisfied with US offer due to Congress interference they will turn to the UK or France.




The AIPAC crowd fire their first salvo.

House Members Say They Will Try to Block Arms Sales to Saudis

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/28/AR2007072801172.html?nav=rss_politics/congress
UK or France? Where are you getting this info?
 

Snayke

New Member
I thought Bush could only veto stuff as in, not allow it to be passed. I didn't know he could bypass Congress and just make stuff law.
 

Incognito129

Banned Member
[I'm assuming your talking about the Saudis, if not, I apologize],
The Saudis definitely can go to Russia but they would than be using the same stuff as Iran. I'm not sure they want different systems than pretty much everyone else around them. They'd be at the mercy of Russia when it comes to arms sales to Iran-Syria vs. SA. The price of oil is already making people look seriously at alternatives, if Russia starts selling to both Iran and SA, oil will definitely hit the fan and oil will be priced out of the market.

JMO
we'll see?
Well they have money. Best scenario for Russia is a Iran-Saudi war where they supply both isnt it. I dont see this affecting the Saudis.

If Iran keeps receiving new weapons and systems from Russia, Saudis will go to Russia or China one way or the other.
 

Grand Danois

Entertainer
If Iran keeps receiving new weapons and systems from Russia, Saudis will go to Russia or China one way or the other.
I for one, certainly can't see the logic in that. If they have the money, prefer Western systems and can play UK, France and the US, why go to Russia or China for arms?
 

Viktor

New Member
I for one, certainly can't see the logic in that. If they have the money, prefer Western systems and can play UK, France and the US, why go to Russia or China for arms?
Whats wrong with the Russian or in some cases Chinese?


btw ... no one here ask ... will Israel allow this?? it has the last word here .
 

Izzy1

Banned Member
It appears the sweetner for Israel is that their military aid will be increased in line - maybe as much as 25% per annum.

Given Saudi's already huge logistical train in purchasing weapons mainly from 3 different sources, adding Russian and Chinese kit into the equation would only further complicate matters.

You also have to remember also that Saudi's officer corps is very heaviliy western-orientated, they have little experience of dealing with non-NATO kit and Saudi's defence doctrine is dependant on western technology concepts.

Lastly, the influence companies like Boeing, BAE Systems and Thales have within Kingdom is immense in comparison to Russian, Chinese or other "non-legacy" suppliers. Such influence counts when dealing in the Arab way of business.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
...

btw ... no one here ask ... will Israel allow this?? it has the last word here .
Israel does not have the last word.Israel has previously lobbied against sales of particular weapons to Saudi Arabia, with only limited success. Sometimes, Israeli lobbying has failed completely. Sometimes, delayed a sale. And in at least one case, forced the downgrading of a weapon. But a complete veto on a large arms sales package? Never!
 
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