T-72 mbt

carman1877

New Member
I know that a lot of threads have mentioned the T-72 and how it is inferior to the M1A2 which is true. But can someone maybe explain and tell me why it is inferior, becuase I know it doesn't have good sights and it has manufacturer problems but it must have some good features?

Also looking for video of T-72

Thanks
 

Tavarisch

New Member
That depends on the variant and model of the T-72. In some cases, certain models maybe able to defeat the M1A2, however certain pre-existing circumstances have to be there. A T-72B2 Rogatka for example, though never battle-tested, may stand a better chance against the M1A2 in comparison to, perhaps a T-72M1.

Recent conflicts have showed the poor standing of the T-72 MBT, I agree. However, to completely base such a statement on these conflicts is unfair. For example, Saddam's forces had tanks 20 years old, which still would've sucked terribly 20 years back because they were cheap export models sold to the allies of the Soviet Union. The more inferior T-72M and M1 had less armor, degraded weapons systems, and many other associated problems. We have yet to see frontline T-72 variants fight in proper order. The T-72s lost in the taking of Grozny, along with their quality T-80B counterparts, were lost more to the fact that the tank was ill-suited to the CQB environment where range no longer becomes a factor. Moreover, these crewmen were also poorly trained, poorly briefed and were inexperienced.

However, in Georgia last year, Russian T-72s outperformed the Georgian ones, though this may have to do more with the fact that the Georgian Army is small, and lacks a proper air-force to cover it's airspace. If I recall, in the battle of Gori most of the tanks used by Georgia were blown by air-strikes from Su-25s and other bomber air-craft. In Chechnya in 1996, a T-90 MBT was reported to be hit by RPG warheads 7 times and managed to continue without error (A Jane's Defense Report I think, forgot the source). T-90s were also deployed in Georgia if I'm not mistaken and they too outperformed the T-72Bs in Georgian service.

I have yet to see a conflict between real Russian T-72s and Western tanks though. The Western tank-men have it easy so far, they've been fighting cripples and old men behind tank sights that can't see in the dark. Half the time, T-72Ms were destroyed by air power anyway.

The fact is that the poor showing of T-72s have been caused more by improper use, overall strategic and logistics errors (lack of air support/ air-defense, poor quality munitions etc...) and poor training rather than the faults of the tank itself, though there are general design flaws that should've been done away with with when the T-90 came about.

Such design flaws, at least in my opinion, is the fact that the T-72/ 90 stores it's ammo in the fighting compartment, making it prone to the trademark jack-in-the-box explosions. Cramped conditions for the crew have been a design flaw that has plagued Soviet and Russian tanks ever since the 1940s. Russian and Soviet tank designers alike however do not agree with the fact that they are flaws, rather they are designed that way to meet Russian and Soviet theories and doctrines of war.

Russian armor composition is still inferior to that of their western counterparts. The T-90 has an estimated thickness of only 720mm+ RHA thickness, in comparison to the M1A2 which is nearly 1 meter. An M829A3 APFSDS round could easily penetrate the ERA of the T-90 ; it's penetration is estimated to be nearly 800mm of RHA. The T-90's advantage lies in it's range, 5km. It's ability to launch ATGMs gives at a range advantage, however I doubt that all the T-90 units have enough ATGMs. The 9M119s are not cheap to make.
 

Arc Light

Banned Member
I know that a lot of threads have mentioned the T-72 and how it is inferior to the M1A2 which is true. But can someone maybe explain and tell me why it is inferior, becuase I know it doesn't have good sights and it has manufacturer problems but it must have some good features
It is quite complicated issue because it is necessary to review all contemporary variants of both tanks which is time consuming task. I can give you short outlook below, however note T-72 tank is about ten years older than M1 Abrams:

- 1980: M1 Abrams (105 mm rifled gun, armor: 400 mm vs APFSDS and 800 mm vs HEAT, analog FCS with TI) versus T-72A (125 mm smoothbore gun, armor: 380 mm vs APFSDS and 500 mm vs HEAT, TPD-K1 FCS) - M1 had better mobility and FCS, better armor and slightly worse firepower

- 1985: M1A1 Abrams (120 mm smoothbore gun, slightly thicker armor) vs T-72B (new 1A40 FCS but still without TI, gun fired 9M119 ATGM, improved armor: 540 mm vs APFSDS and 700-800 mm vs HEAT including K-1 light ERA) - Abrams had still better mobility and FCS, firepower was similar on average, armor protection, too.

- 1991: M1A1HA Abams (120 mm smoothbore gun but with much better M829A1 APFSDS-DU round, additional DU armor package: 660 mm vs APFSDS and 1000 mm vs HEAT) vs T-90 (essentially T-72B with 1A45T FCS taken from T-80U tank and better K-5 heavy ERA) - Abrams had still better mobility, and FCS but not to such a degree like in the past, much better APFSDS rounds because brand-new then Russian BM-48 round did not enter troops due to USSR's fall, armor protection was the same on paper but in reality ERA is much worse solution than Western multilayer laminated armor of Chobham and Dorchester types.

- 2008: M1A2SEP Abrams (120 mm smoothbore gun with potent M829A3 round, 3th generation DU armor: 950 mm vs APFSDS, 1600 mm vs HEAT, very advanced FCS, vectronics and C4I systems) vs T-90A (120 mm gun with better BM-42M APFSDS round but it is no match for M829A3, slightly thicker turret armor and mobility thanks to more powerful engine, its FCS has French TI) - Abrams has better mobility, much better FCS and electronic systems overall, clearly superior firepower and armor protection because M829A3 can destroy T-90A at 2-3 km distance but M1A2SEP is practically immune to T-90A fire from frontal arcs.

In sum after its introduction Abrams was comparable with T-72 on average but it had much higher modernization potential simply being 10-15 years newer design. Thus in ten years Abrams began to outperform T-72/90 tank in all crucial areas and now Abrams is much better tank. Russians would have to introduce completely new tank model to achieve qualitative parity with American tank fleet.

Additionally widespread introduction of tandem HEAT anti-tank weapons greatly reduces T-72/90 reactive armor effectivenesses. On the other hand Russians do not possess APFSDS rounds being on par with modern Western designs (M829A3, DM63, L28). Also Russian tanks are not "crew friendly" because of their small internal space, high workload and crew fatigue.

Hope this helps you a bit!
 
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