Special forces

Scorpius

New Member
what are the special forces' struture like?I don't think they have normal regular army like formations do they?

like does a captain in special ops forces lead a 40 man team and a colonel lead a squadron ,consisting of about 4 or 5 such platoons?
 

LancerMc

New Member
What type of special force units are you wanting to know? There are a number of different types from governments, branches, and services.

Examples of units; AFSOC, Rangers, Delta, SEALs, SAS, Spetnaz, and others
 

rattmuff

Lurk-loader?
I can write a nice reply when a very special book (special forces encyclopedia) ends up in my mailbox in a week or so. :rolleyes::D
 

aaaditya

New Member
hey guys indian army is raising 8 special forces battalions(8000 troops),whose specific role would be disrupt enemy border installations and nuclear facilities.

here check out this article and link ,it also contains some information on the us special forces:

http://www.dailypioneer.com/indexn12.asp?main_variable=front_page&file_name=story4.txt&counter_img=4

By the year 2010, India will have eight battalions of elite Special Forces capable of precision strikes at enemy nuclear capabilities with state-of-the-art equipment.

The Government has sanctioned Rs 1,000 crore for the purpose and the Army is ready with its wish list for joint training and procuring hi-tech weapon and communication systems.

Each battalion will have the strength of 1,000 airborne commandos trained to operate behind enemy lines, and cripple their war time response mechanism.

The decision will enable the Indian armed forces to develop conventional capabilities in an environment where some countries in the Indian subcontinent are on the nuclear threshold.

These highly trained Special Forces commandos will achieve the strategic objectives laid down by the political leadership as chances of an all-out war are few in the present day international scenario.

The Army already has five battalions of the Special Forces and in 2002, the NDA Government had given the go-ahead for raising five more units. But the eight new battalions will be in the airborne mode and trained to take out enemy's N-capacities. The airborne mode will enable the Special Forces to carry out a variety of sensitive and surgical strikes.

Elaborating upon the importance of this decision, sources said the Special Forces would now have the capabilities to inflict heavy damage on strategic targets in an enemy country including nuclear installations, communication nerve centres and crucial war waging capabilities.

Given this backdrop, Army chief General JJ Singh, now on a seven-day visit to the US, is likely to hold extensive talks with his counterparts about joint training and procurement of hi-tech weapons and communication systems for the Special Forces.

India is keen on an intensive interaction with US Special Forces as far as training is concerned as the US has the most advanced Special Forces organisation with a separate command structure.

Backed by a budget equivalent to the entire Indian defence allocations, the US Special Forces has its own dedicated fixed wing and rotary aircraft, sources said. The pilots flying these aircraft are trained in night flying and only those pilots who have logged more than 3,000 hours of night flying are commissioned into the Special Forces.

With more funds coming for raising the Special Forces, the Army now wants to have three-dimensional capabilities of operating in air, land and underwater.

In fact, the Army is keen to acquire equipment for these operations through the FMS route, sources said. The list includes combat underwater diving equipment, laser target designators, underwater rifles, modular acquisition devices, diver propulsion vehicles, underwater cameras, kayaks, underwater global positioning systems (GPS) and GPS map navigation systems.

Explaining the reason for having exercises with the US, they said the US and Israel Special Forces are rated to be the best in the world and joint training with Israel has political dimensions, sources said.

While India has no problem in acquiring weapon systems from Israel, political reservations have not allowed the two countries to have a joint drill. Sources added the NDA Government had taken a policy decision to allow the Israelis and the Indian armed forces to have joint exercises but no further development took place.
 

riksavage

Banned Member
Money and Kit!

I would be interested to hear how India intends to fund the equipment and training needed to bring the proposed units up to the same standard as similar Western teams

Sophisticated re-breathers, underwater delivery vehicles, GPS units etc. etc. don’t come cheap. Plus the CQB, range facilities (MOE, Demolitions etc.) needed to train 8000 men to tier one standards are going to stretch the purse-strings.

Sounds like the propaganda machine is in full swing, No doubt the Pakistanis will make a similar claim very shortly.

Please excuse my cynicism!:shudder
 

kams

New Member
I would be interested to hear how India intends to fund the equipment and training needed to bring the proposed units up to the same standard as similar Western teams

Sophisticated re-breathers, underwater delivery vehicles, GPS units etc. etc. don’t come cheap. Plus the CQB, range facilities (MOE, Demolitions etc.) needed to train 8000 men to tier one standards are going to stretch the purse-strings.

Sounds like the propaganda machine is in full swing, No doubt the Pakistanis will make a similar claim very shortly.

Please excuse my cynicism!:shudder
Hmmm Lets see. Indian Army's budget this year is around US$ 10 Billion. Indian Govt. allocated additional $250 million this year to cater for new Special forces. Defence Budget is increasing by average 9.5%. Projected Defence Spending between 2007 and 2012 is around US $165 billion (2.57% of GDP). Armed forces want to increase it to 3.0% of GDP. So sparing $2-4 billion over next 3 years for special forces should not be a problem.

Now I know US spends equivalent of our national defence budget on special forces only, but India's special forces don't have to operate all over the world:) .
 

machina

New Member
The problem is, how will India support battalions of men operating behind enemy lines? They are going to need air support if they are taking on prepared fortified positions, and unless they can be exfiltrated, they will need periodic resupply. This is why the US has all those dedicated air assets.
 

kams

New Member
The problem is, how will India support battalions of men operating behind enemy lines? They are going to need air support if they are taking on prepared fortified positions, and unless they can be exfiltrated, they will need periodic resupply. This is why the US has all those dedicated air assets.
As of now, they are just talking about creating additional special forces units to take out enemy strategic assets, and govt. has given in principle go ahead for the proposal. Tactics and logistics are to be worked on and no. info is available. If you look at the current procurement trend of Indian Armed forces, emphasis is on Modernization, Force multipliers, information warfare etc.

Hitherto, all Air lift capabilities were with IAF. Now Indian Army is procuring 80 Mi-17, 195 Light Utility Helicopters, 60 + advanced light Helicopters. As per Boeing, Indian Army is also about issue RFP for Heavy Lift Helicopters (CH-47/MH-47 Chinook class).

As the news report said, India is looking at USA very keenly for training and equipment for special forces. I assume they want to model it after US special forces but not in the same scale.

Its too early to say anything about the operational capabilities. In any case not much news will ever come out.
 

riksavage

Banned Member
SF Resources

Kams your response is informative and detailed, however taking out ‘strategic assets’ is an extremely complex operation requiring the ability to infiltrate and then extract large numbers of men from behind enemy lines.

You mention equipment increases, but how many of the planned helicopters are going to be fitted with refueling probes, sophisticated night-flying navigation systems and self-defense suits allowing for map of the earth long range penetration operations thus allowing the SF units to get near the heavily defended strategic assets in the first place!

Unless you have the right kit, a sophisticated logistics chain and secure communications you might as well forget the extraction phase of the operation, because there will be no one left to extract! I would be interested to hear how many strategic assets the Pakistanis have along the Indo-Pakistan border? Attacks on strategic navel bases (Karachi for example) by maritime SF teams utilizing underwater delivery systems will need to be transported to the littoral environment by submarine, are Indian subs equipped to deploy such units, if not that will be a very costly exercise.
 

kams

New Member
Riksavage,
I agree with you 100%. Its too early to say what India is planning. India did employ its special forces in past conflicts very effectively deep inside enemy territory. However, the kind of operation mentioned in the news report is in a different league and requires highly specialized skills and equipment. Thats why India is looking at USA for her needs. For example negotiations are going on for purchase of C-130Js. Lets wait and see, its still has some way to go.
 

aaaditya

New Member
Kams your response is informative and detailed, however taking out ‘strategic assets’ is an extremely complex operation requiring the ability to infiltrate and then extract large numbers of men from behind enemy lines.

You mention equipment increases, but how many of the planned helicopters are going to be fitted with refueling probes, sophisticated night-flying navigation systems and self-defense suits allowing for map of the earth long range penetration operations thus allowing the SF units to get near the heavily defended strategic assets in the first place!

Unless you have the right kit, a sophisticated logistics chain and secure communications you might as well forget the extraction phase of the operation, because there will be no one left to extract! I would be interested to hear how many strategic assets the Pakistanis have along the Indo-Pakistan border? Attacks on strategic navel bases (Karachi for example) by maritime SF teams utilizing underwater delivery systems will need to be transported to the littoral environment by submarine, are Indian subs equipped to deploy such units, if not that will be a very costly exercise.
well here is what indian airforce plans to acquire to support its special forces,around 20 advanced light heliopter dhruvs,80 mi 172's,120 il215t's,80 attack heliopters(most probably indigenously designed lch,but indian army is also interested in the russian ka-50),20 c-130j hercules,as kams said heavy transport helicopters.

i believe these forces for operation in pakistan would not require in flight efuelling capabilities,also they can infiltrate through land,indian airforce is also improving its long range ground strike capability and have recently tetsed the israeli spice and popeye missiles,they are also in market for a long range land attack missile 9for which the us jassm and the european storm shadow are under active consideration),

the launch of the cartosat imagery satellite would provide the indian special force with top quality digital maps in real time ,a more avanced version of cartosat is to be launched next year.

the indigenous designed simputer (palm held computer with communications and navigation and movin map display) is already being issued to the indian special force.

so most of the basic equipments are in place already and have been developed indigenously .

the only problem i see is an underwater rifle ,which i believe would equip the marcos,russian had demonstrated a similiar underwater rifle to the indian armed forces a couple of years back,this weapon can be used as a normal assault rifle above water.
 

aaaditya

New Member
israel is vital conributor to the indian special forces,about 3000 strong indian contingent was trained by israel is special operations,however not much is known about this special forces contingent since it was not one of a standard indian special forces contingent but a new unit.

india acquired from israel the tavor2 assault rifle(3500 numbers) ,galil sniper rifles(250 numbers),indian and israel also jointly developed a new assault rifle based on the israeli microtar design ,this rifle is known as the zittara.

india also managed to reverse engineer the south african 20mm truvello anti material rifle (which was successfully used during the kargil war),the indian version has changeable barrels and can fire ammunition of 12.7,14,5 and 20mm caliber to a range of 2-2.5 kms.it is known as the vidhwanshak (destroyer)
 

aaaditya

New Member
Kams your response is informative and detailed, however taking out ‘strategic assets’ is an extremely complex operation requiring the ability to infiltrate and then extract large numbers of men from behind enemy lines.

You mention equipment increases, but how many of the planned helicopters are going to be fitted with refueling probes, sophisticated night-flying navigation systems and self-defense suits allowing for map of the earth long range penetration operations thus allowing the SF units to get near the heavily defended strategic assets in the first place!

Unless you have the right kit, a sophisticated logistics chain and secure communications you might as well forget the extraction phase of the operation, because there will be no one left to extract! I would be interested to hear how many strategic assets the Pakistanis have along the Indo-Pakistan border? Attacks on strategic navel bases (Karachi for example) by maritime SF teams utilizing underwater delivery systems will need to be transported to the littoral environment by submarine, are Indian subs equipped to deploy such units, if not that will be a very costly exercise.
indian scorpenes have the inherent capability ,currently the indian kilos(upgraded ones) and the hdw type209 have this capability.

india is also working on special projects,about which much details are not available,though i posted some news articles about them,they are still in concept testing stage ,they are an unmanned hovercraft capable of firing torpedos and missiles,an unmanned underwater vessel(successfully tested) and foil based catamaran known as foil cat 2000,while the foilcat2000 and the unmanned hovercraft are iit projects being developed by the indian institute of technology (amongst the world's leading technological universities) ,the uuv was tested by the nstl a naval design research beureau.


also the coast guard and the naval fast attack crafts like the israeli super dvora fast attack crafts and the indigenous xfac35 bangaram class and the trinkat class of fast attack crafts also have a special forces support capability built into them from the design stage itself,israeli special forces use the super dvora mk2 which is also in service with the indian navy and coast guard and the sri lankan navy.

pakistan is acquiring the turkish mrtp33 which also have similiar capabilities,however they would find it very difficult to launch special forces since indian coast guard is exceptionally strong and the indo-pak ,indo-bangla and indo-srilankan coasts are extremely well protected,also with this eventuality in consideartion ,indian coast guard is further strenghtening itself by commissioning floating border outposts in critical areas to foil sea or marsh based infiltrations.

indian coast guard also uses griffon10000d hovercrafts while i believe the pakistanis use the griffon8000d hovercrafts.these hovercrafts are capable of carrying and beaching upto 100 troops each(slightly lesser capability for the griffon8000d).
 

kams

New Member
riksavage

riksavage,
In my earlier reply I made a mistake.
Hitherto, all Air lift capabilities were with IAF. Now Indian Army is procuring 80 Mi-17, 195 Light Utility Helicopters, 60 + advanced light Helicopters. As per Boeing, Indian Army is also about issue RFP for Heavy Lift Helicopters (CH-47/MH-47 Chinook class).
80 Mi-17s are ordered by IAF, not Army. My apologies.
 

aaaditya

New Member
riksavage,
In my earlier reply I made a mistake.


80 Mi-17s are ordered by IAF, not Army. My apologies.
indian army generally operates light helicopters such as chetaks and cheetahs(and now maybe bell 407 shen's),these are opereated in air observation post ,training,counter insurgency roles,casualty evacuation roles(particularly in high altitude regions like the siachen glacier etc) and armed scout roles.
 
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