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Scottish Independence

This is a discussion on Scottish Independence within the Geo-strategic Issues forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Is the early result of the Pool already Out ? Even if 'no' still win, it's should be a wake ...


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Old September 11th, 2014   #16
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Is the early result of the Pool already Out ? Even if 'no' still win, it's should be a wake up call for London to keep more PR war in Scotland. People in region (in many country) always feel the Central Government steel more from Region, and the amount of Central Government subsidise to region, or economic dependence of one region to overall economy, always left out in the 'local' people calculation thinking.

It's part of Good-Old Bad Central Government Phenomena....

PS:

What I mean with early pool is the Pool before the election. I don't know what they call it in UK.

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Mod, sorry for double post.

Last edited by Ananda; September 11th, 2014 at 06:21 AM.
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Old September 11th, 2014   #17
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Is the early result of the Pool already Out ? Even if 'no' still win, it's should be a wake up call for London to keep more PR war in Scotland. People in region (in many country) always feel the Central Government steel more from Region, and the amount of Central Government subsidise to region, or economic dependence of one region to overall economy, always left out in the 'local' people calculation thinking.

It's part of Good-Old Bad Central Government Phenomena....

PS:

What I mean with early pool is the Pool before the election. I don't know what they call it in UK.

Note:
Mod, sorry for double post.

Poll?

Are you talking about a poll where the call about 1000 people and load up the question and use that as a yardstick?
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Old September 11th, 2014   #18
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I don't believe the results of any election are ever published in part in the UK prior to all votes being in and polls closing.
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Old September 11th, 2014   #19
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Poll?

Are you talking about a poll where the call about 1000 people and load up the question and use that as a yardstick?
Not sure about the rest of the world but here in Canada, the volume of junk phone calls (including pollsters) is massive. Recent election outcomes have proven poll results to be very inaccurate. This could be due to poor polling techniques or people jerking the pollsters around due to frustration with all the phone abuse from telemarketing. I am beginning to suspect the latter.
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Old September 11th, 2014   #20
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As one of the few people on here who is actually allowed to vote in this referendum, to put it politely, many people I know are worried.

The YES campaign has hijacked the saltire, the Scottish flag claiming it as their own. Their leader has quoted facts & figures that have been systematically torn down by independent reviewers & commentators, their activists have systematically turned up at NO campaign events, to heckle & jeer, and their leader has actually stated that IF the YES campaign win, he'll step down.

Every day we're being bombarded in the media & on social networking sites that the YES campaign is wining.

As one of the 6 million people who will be on the ground, directly affected by this, I find it strange that learned individuals that I know personally, whom I have considered 'educated', are whole heartedly backing it !

Many of the lines are being blurred & the public have been demanding answers from the politicians, who are doing no more than behaving like kindergarten kids, saying "it's my ball & you're not playing with it !", quoting endless facts, figures & stats, not coming out with black & white statements that EVERYONE can understand.

Many haven't considered the full impact of a YES win. Separation from the union that's served a United Kingdom for over 300 years is just the start of it. Loss of a currency that is as much Scotland's as the rUK's. Industrialists & Economists moving money & jobs South of the Border (while ENGLISH hedge fund managers are systematically buying up Scottish assets on the stock market, as their values drop, as the Pound's valve wavers & dips, making them RICH !), Taxes going up, prices going up, being ostracised by the EU. Questions about how taxes will work, pensions, the postal service, the implications for those countries worldwide who use the Union flag(Because will it still be correct to contain the Scottish element within it ??)

...& then we get down to the facts about the armed forces. An Army of 3,500 ! A naval base for a conventional navy that doesn't have any ships(well, not until we build them, using a workforce from a company that has stated it will close it's facilities in Scotland & take them South !), An Air force that won't have any aircraft, or serving individuals.

To use a very Scottish word, it's turning into a right 'guddgel' !

...& the Cherry on top, many of those voting are only too aware the Mr Salmond isn't a popular leader, but are somehow drawn to the old, traditional shortbread tin view, of the beautiful highlands, with a red haired, kilted man, carrying a broadsword, roaming the glens, hunting for redcoats !

They think that being free from the influence of a Westminster parliament IS the best thing since sliced bread, that the black gold below the North Sea, in the GI-UK Gap & West into the Atlantic, in 3,000 fathoms of water will answer all the problems, fund the rebuilding of the nation & make us stronger.

The reality of a YES vote, the 2 years of arguing & debating that are destined to take place, followed by the ugly tearing of the formal ties (removal of military assets, equipment & personnel), then an election where the SNP will be instantly ousted, for a Labour/Liberalised parliament that will be left to try & fix a mess that wasn't their making, only for our poor, broken & dejected nation to muddle on, on the 'Long-Walk' off into the distance, as the sun sets & darkness reigns...
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Old September 11th, 2014   #21
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I think that this may effect the election:

Scottish banks deliver blow to independence with threat to head south | Al Jazeera America

If true, could be a disaster for Scotland.
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Old September 11th, 2014   #22
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Looking on some of forums talking about the issue, seems the scotish 'yes' followers still believe their 6 million nation economy can cope with financial/banking sector and Industrial sector withdrawals to the south and relying on Oil and Fishing industry. One of on line comment that I see stated: "If Norway can do it, why can't us".

Not a realistic point of view, but seems a strong close to fanatical point of view nonetheless.

Anyway, personally I'm kind intrigued with what is 'new' union jack will be after scotland withdrawals if 'yes' vote wins.
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Old September 11th, 2014   #23
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Secession movements like this are happening across Southern Europe also. I find it very interesting how they are all occurring around the same time.

'Independencia!': Protesters demand Catalonia vote

Europe's Latest Secession Movement: Venice? - The Atlantic

Scottish independence: Why Catalonia and Venice will be watching | Metro News
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Old September 11th, 2014   #24
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Not sure about the rest of the world but here in Canada, the volume of junk phone calls (including pollsters) is massive. Recent election outcomes have proven poll results to be very inaccurate. This could be due to poor polling techniques or people jerking the pollsters around due to frustration with all the phone abuse from telemarketing. I am beginning to suspect the latter.
Same here in the land of the Kiwis. The only poll that really counts is the one on election day and that is only after the special votes are counted and any recounts are done if requested. Here voting is not compulsory - registration is so turnout can have have an impact, as can the undecided voters. So whilst polls prior may give an indication they certainly are not highly accurate.
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Old September 11th, 2014   #25
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Secession movements like this are happening across Southern Europe also. I find it very interesting how they are all occurring around the same time.

'Independencia!': Protesters demand Catalonia vote

Europe's Latest Secession Movement: Venice? - The Atlantic

Scottish independence: Why Catalonia and Venice will be watching | Metro News
Spain will be watching with nervous interest. They have the reverse of the UK in the fact that if Catalonians manage to secede then they would turn spain into a bigger version of Portugal
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Old September 12th, 2014   #26
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To use a very Scottish word, it's turning into a right 'guddgel' !
I have to ask, seeing how the internet considers Scottish an obscure language, what is a 'guddgel' ?
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Old September 12th, 2014   #27
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I can't see Scotland breaking away. Economically Scotland has a lot more to lose than the rest of the UK. All the "vote yes" bravado will evaporate when people are queuing up to vote and suddenly realise how uncertain their future will be.

That the yes vote isn't even ahead now would suggest that this will be trounced at the polls.
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Old September 12th, 2014   #28
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I can't see Scotland breaking away. Economically Scotland has a lot more to lose than the rest of the UK. All the "vote yes" bravado will evaporate when people are queuing up to vote and suddenly realise how uncertain their future will be.

That the yes vote isn't even ahead now would suggest that this will be trounced at the polls.
Ah yes but sometimes the great hairy unwashed vote emotionally and not logically. Methinks this might be a too close to call and whilst as outsiders we can see the logic of a no vote ......
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Old September 12th, 2014   #29
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Ah yes but sometimes the great hairy unwashed vote emotionally and not logically. Methinks this might be a too close to call and whilst as outsiders we can see the logic of a no vote ......
One of the other potential issues is that it seems members of the independence movement have been spinning tales of what is possible, alongside asssertions of how easy things will be, whilst dismissing outside commentary (and statements) of issues. NATO and EU membership come immediately to mind. A concern I have is that SNP members and others will believe the independence leadership and not the outside organizations with regards to the viability of Scotish membership.

Frankly though, if people wish to believe Salmond instead of NATO over what is required for Scotland to join NATO, then the people deserve what they get. I just wish there not so many people wearing "rose-tinted" glasses.
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Old September 12th, 2014   #30
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I think that this may effect the election:

Scottish banks deliver blow to independence with threat to head south | Al Jazeera America

If true, could be a disaster for Scotland.
Oh, it's true. One of the results of the success of the Scottish financial industry is that the biggest firms do much more business in the rest of the UK than in Scotland, because they've outgrown the Scottish market, & think that it would make sense to move to where their business is if Scotland split off. And one of them is mostly owned by the UK government, as a result of the 2008 crash.

What Salmond & the Yes campaign don't understand is that the Scottish financial industry is now like Scottish shipbuilding: a UK industry that happens to be based in Scotland, not a Scottish industry.

I would expect Selex to move its Scottish radar business south as fast as it could, as well, to keep its preferential access to the UK military market.
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