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Is russia still a big player

This is a discussion on Is russia still a big player within the Geo-strategic Issues forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Originally Posted by montgomery Moscow is a hard one for me to crack. On one hand Russia is a failed ...


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Old August 8th, 2012   #16
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Moscow is a hard one for me to crack. On one hand Russia is a failed state with a collapsing population and Moscow is gradually taking away democratic advances made in the past 20 years.
The definition of Failed State is very 'bias' and only put Western Perspective. Based on that definition and scoring perspective (which usually being put by Western based NGO and think-tank), China has more risk becoming Failed State then the Bankrupt Greece .

Russia is big player relative to whom ? To USSR ? well off course much less so. However compared to emerging power like India, China or non US Western Power like UK and France, then yes Russia still can be counted part of Global Big Player.

It can put more International influence to other players "individually" outside US. Their weapon Industry is still only second to US (again I'm talking Russia vs other player as individual not as Group), which made them can wield influence for non-friendly West countries. In short for anti-west countries (which are still many of them), Russia still provide them an alternative 'grip' on International relationship.

Don't forgot despite slow down on Russian Tech development after the collapse of USSR, they are now reviving the path. SOYUZ is still the only viable manned space transport exists today after the retirement of Space Shuttle (well you can add China space capsule on that, which basically is also derive from Soyuz model).

Again, Russia is but a 'shadow' compared to what USSR relative can do in the height of it's power. However still is a big player.
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Old August 13th, 2012   #17
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How are they not a big player anymore?

In terms of military strength they are still making strides and last time I checked their defense budget has been getting higher over the past couple of years and they are inventing new things in all fields of their military. No, its no where near the US military budget, but Russia is still the only other country on this planet that produces all their own stuff, from Rockets that get launched into space, to satellites, missiles, planes, tanks, ships...the list just goes on..

Only other country that comes close to the same milestone is France, building most of their own stuff.

I wanted to say the UK, but outside their Navy, they rely on other countries, like their Eurofighter took the effort of 4 countries...and besides that they fly Apache's Chinacook's and C-130's which are American with slight UK mods....

Also wanted to say China, but I dont consider it your own when you just copy something and change the name..

So yes, Russia is still the only other country in the world besides US that builds all its own military supplies...and they are still inventing new things...


And I know this board is not about country vs country, but honestly...who would want to take Russia to war? Answer is no one..
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Old August 13th, 2012   #18
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quite agree

i quite agree with you, the iskander missle is highly advanced surface to surface missle, and the russians and world leading in air defence. all there kit is cheaper to produce/buy than the western counter parts and the stuff is reliable and easy/cheap to maintain. and some kit is just as good as the west's, and another point to note is there anti tank systems are world leading like the rpg 29 which is cheap to produce even the west were shocked at how well it performed, even managed to penetrate a challenger 2 tank, this weapon is so feared by the west that the new iraqi wasnt allowed to purchase it by order of the USA. i think lack of funding halts speedy production of the many systems they have planned.


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How are they not a big player anymore?

In terms of military strength they are still making strides and last time I checked their defense budget has been getting higher over the past couple of years and they are inventing new things in all fields of their military. No, its no where near the US military budget, but Russia is still the only other country on this planet that produces all their own stuff, from Rockets that get launched into space, to satellites, missiles, planes, tanks, ships...the list just goes on..

Only other country that comes close to the same milestone is France, building most of their own stuff.

I wanted to say the UK, but outside their Navy, they rely on other countries, like their Eurofighter took the effort of 4 countries...and besides that they fly Apache's Chinacook's and C-130's which are American with slight UK mods....

Also wanted to say China, but I dont consider it your own when you just copy something and change the name..

So yes, Russia is still the only other country in the world besides US that builds all its own military supplies...and they are still inventing new things...


And I know this board is not about country vs country, but honestly...who would want to take Russia to war? Answer is no one..
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Old August 14th, 2012   #19
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To me russia is a big power and of course a super power. I still feel threatened when nuclear weapons are mentioned for certain russia has a huge arsenal. In terms of millitary technology it still count among some of the best and countries like china and india, big powers in asia depends on russia and i think ''when russia sneeze china quakes'' afterall almost the entire chinese military hardware depends on russia and on this term how can a country like china be a rising talkless being claimed a superpower? A country without modern technology. Of recent russia has tested its pak fa t50 fifth generation stealth fighter even acclaimed to be the most technological 5th generation fighter plane, how do you grade the chengdu? Whereas china is bussy making problems in south china sea arrogating power, and territorial claims russia is not and big powers don't do so they have their stealth ways of getting what they want, look at the big way the usa goes its way i think that's the way of a supper power and that's the way russia thow. Russia still think it's talking of some equall shoulders with the us and of course the us has some great respect for russia. In the diplomatic front russia weld some reasonable diplomatic influence atleast on those countries that cannot talk any how about russia else it rubbish their deffence: cut arms sales to those countries, of course to me this is the primary reason the chinese are backing russian diplomatic position in areas like syria and it keep goading the chinese diplomatically. I think russia still possess a significant diplomatic territory where it exercise significant diplomatic influence. In the arms market today beside american arms the alternative is russian arms. Think about the S series of SAM. What else is needed to be a supper power that russia does not possess?
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Old August 15th, 2012   #20
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Russia is still a massive arms manufacturer and that counts for a lot.

Russia can determine world events and military outcomes simply by deciding to who it is willing to provide weapons to.

This gives it a clout well beyond its military capability ... which is still quite substantial.

Only the US has greater capability in terms of the size and the capability of its arms industry.
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Old August 15th, 2012   #21
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How are they not a big player anymore?

In terms of military strength they are still making strides and last time I checked their defense budget has been getting higher over the past couple of years and they are inventing new things in all fields of their military. No, its no where near the US military budget, but Russia is still the only other country on this planet that produces all their own stuff, from Rockets that get launched into space, to satellites, missiles, planes, tanks, ships...the list just goes on..

Only other country that comes close to the same milestone is France, building most of their own stuff.

I wanted to say the UK, but outside their Navy, they rely on other countries, like their Eurofighter took the effort of 4 countries...and besides that they fly Apache's Chinacook's and C-130's which are American with slight UK mods....

Also wanted to say China, but I dont consider it your own when you just copy something and change the name..

So yes, Russia is still the only other country in the world besides US that builds all its own military supplies...and they are still inventing new things...


And I know this board is not about country vs country, but honestly...who would want to take Russia to war? Answer is no one..
You are aware that France, while building lots of its stuff at home, also fields lots of hardware which is sourced from other countries or is developed in joint projects with others?

Flying stuff alone includes boatloads of foreign and jointly developed stuff. E-3 Sentry, Alpha Jet, C-130, Transall, A400M, KC-135, Tiger just to name a few...

Don't look into amunitions stuff like this.

As for Russia. Their idea of procuring everything at home is eroding more and more with amphibious ships, trucks, APCs, field hospitals, whole training centers etc. being bought from foreign companies.
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Old August 16th, 2012   #22
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As for Russia. Their idea of procuring everything at home is eroding more and more with amphibious ships, trucks, APCs, field hospitals, whole training centers etc. being bought from foreign companies.
Well truth is Russia was never able to produce all of its own equipment. The USSR was (for the most part). Russia never had enough money to truly re-arm itself. It only got that money very, very, recently. And as soon as it did, it had to start importing equipment from abroad.
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Old September 10th, 2012   #23
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I don't understand why some peoples claimed that Russia was well on it's way into a success when Boris Yeltsin rolled a tank into a parliement and brought russia into a brink of economic failure.

Then when Putin brought russia out of a brink of economic failure and into an era prosperity, he was branded as a leader of a soon to be fail state.
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Old September 10th, 2012   #24
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Russia is still a big player no doubt about it. They still are a big player in my opinion due to there history. Although the U.S. spends about 556 billion dollars a year on our armed forces, so if any circumstance we got into a conflict the U.S. could resolve it.
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Old September 18th, 2012   #25
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RuSsia a superpower?

Superpower is a world that you should look up before calling Russia one. First of all, besides a military that is all but falling apart, Putin has taken steps to bring the aerospace and defense contractors back and up to date cause that is where the true military power comes from. Yes their exports to any nation we won't or don't sell arms to loves Russia (and France for that matter). It is the economic status that Russia is currently missing. Once Russia and China's currency are increased to the IMF's currency basket and with the World Bank, this is the key to start to move closer towards superpower status. They are only small portions right now. This allows you to borrow more and have greater influence over other nations besides with military strength. Russia (and China), have a lot more data to steal from our programs and then build these programs, in sufficient numbers. Maintaining the equipment is what seemed to cause Russia's collapse of its military the last time, sustainability is vital. A superpower can sustain. I believe China has a bigger problem here then most think when talking about how powerful they truly are. Yes GDP close to 10 trillion is great (US =15 trillion) but when u divide that with how many people live there. GDP PER capita, you have something like $4,000.00 to something like $48,000 in the US. Rough numbers but population of census 2010 around 312 million Americans. China, believe 1.9-2 billion as of Jan 2012. Either way, Just look on google earth and the difference in landscapes, climates, amount of land, surroundings.... Strategically I like our odds.

Last edited by DrewUSA; September 18th, 2012 at 03:38 PM. Reason: Title.
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Old September 18th, 2012   #26
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Militarily i think this could be the last roll of the dice for Russia as after weapons programs like the T-50 pak-fa i would wonder who is going to buy Russian weapons by then China and India their 2 biggest buyers will be developing their own equipment so it will struggle to finance new programs.
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Old September 18th, 2012   #27
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And the bigger issue with China and India

first of all you have close to 3 billion people or some 39% of the worlds population between India and China and resource scarcity is already starting to become an issue. add up the populations of the entire Asia Continent and you will really be baffled. clean water, let alone our world food production/cost, then add population future projections on top of increased weather intensity that we have already seen around the world. that entire Continent is at war or has war roots and the US has the obligation to stand up for the"small person" and their individual freedoms. but either way Russia and the US relations right now is small compared to India and Pakistan, China and its disputed land and water territories, Taiwan, North Korea, and the list goes on. remember anything that happens there... (i.e. nuclear, chem, biological) would as we know from Japan's recent nuclear accident, that any hostile actions taken place can create a very dangerous situation not only for our foreign allies and their security, the entire eco system or the pacific and not to mention what could eventually end up across the country from coast to coast, contaminating the US. i think North Korea needs to learn its place just like i did growing up with 5 brothers being the youngest.... teach them once, supply advanced sm2 ABM and sm3 once deployed publicly, and shoot down anything that is launched as soon as it is launched. (Same with Iran, we completely surround it.) hey when i was 8, i had to learn the hard way not to hit or provoke someone 5 times my size and talk S***, there will be consequences . their citizens don't even have the right to communicate with the outside world... so whats the difference between a slave and a north Korean? a slave got whipped for speaking bad about his owner a NK would get shot. makes slavery look humane.
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Old September 24th, 2012   #28
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US. Rough numbers but population of census 2010 around 312 million Americans. China, believe 1.9-2 billion as of Jan 2012. Either way, Just look on google earth and the difference in landscapes, climates, amount of land, surroundings.... Strategically I like our odds.
China's latest population statistics is 1.3 billion. American population growth rate is twice China's ,did you know that ?
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Old September 24th, 2012   #29
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Made a few mistakes that morning... I am sorry, read on.

Thanks, but I would like to point out with the current need of employees and improvements in everyday Chinese lives, along with what is going on over there, I believe otherwise, and I should have posted this from dot china-briefing dot com, a few other places I get my information from besides the tradition route if you are really interested, email me and I would be happy to send you some info on the official stats and what the people counting have said. Even a couple of the official counts are off, Ill try to put two links below and then subtract and see the difference…. we, nor they really don’t know. Its best guess and because of the One Child, they have A LOT of Illegal children:

www dot china-briefing dot com
by a Chinese Daily News Brief
"Is China’s Population Really 1.3 Billion?

Sept. 1 - The population figure promoted for China that is accepted by the international community and acknowledged by Beijing is 1.3 billion.

This figure has been promoted for some years now. In assessing the reliability of this statistic, we need to look at other factors. The only way Beijing can calculate for this figure accurately is by undertaking a national population census. The last one was undertaken was in 2000/2001. This census was abandoned halfway through as the census takers could not obtain accurate responses, mainly because of distrust as to the actual purpose of the poll.

China’s population therefore continues to be based on the last complete census carried out in the country, which was 19 years ago in 1988/89. The 1.3 billion figure then, as far as we can ascertain, dates back from this census.

We will take an educated guess as to the likely trend that has happened since then. Taking the annual average global population growth figure of about 2.2 to 2.3 percent over a period of 19 years, this may add about 200-300 million Chinese. However, we are unsure how the annual death rate – statistics of which seem to not be available– would affect this estimation. The population growth for countries like Kenya and Philippines is about 4.3 percent, and for most developed countries in Europe about 1.4 percent.

Since 1976, China has adopted a one child policy. Traditionally, the Chinese rural population relies on parents supported by many children to ensure that the family can survive and prosper. Although in recent years, this one child policy has been relaxed in certain areas, it is still in force by legislation in China. This means that parents in rural areas who have more than one child can only legally register the first one. This creates a vast number of unregistered children, who have no legal registration or what is known as a hukou and cannot receive state benefits.

The majority of the illegal migrant population in China’s major cities are known to be unregistered, hence the mobile phone numbers spray painted around cities by dubious agencies and individuals that offer fake documentation to illegal migrants.Although no actual statistics exist, we could surmise a guess and estimate that unregistered post-1976 children amount to as much as 200 - 300 million people.

Therefore if you take the population figure of 1.3 billion, add in the growth since the last full census, plus the possible additional figures for unregistered children - then it could be possible that the population for China today could be anything between 1.8 to 2 billion people.

We would like to emphasize that these figures are from various personal observations and have not been formally evaluated. We accept that some of the factors above may be inaccurate. However, the main point here is that nobody, least of all the Chinese government, knows what the real population of China is today which is most probably higher than the published figure of 1.3 billion."

I will tell you now, Google the links because I am still New and I cant post LINKS... How can i prove myself?
Oneww.photius.com/rankings/world2050_rank.TotalCountries of the World - immigration, geography, economy, government, history, religion, climate, travel, maps, flagsPopulation by Country, 1950, 2000, 2015, 2025, 2050 (Medium-Fertility Variant)And this one I like...:ww.geohive.com/earth/his_proj_asiaGeoHiveHistoric, current and future population: Asiacheck it out, 75% increase in world population, in Asia. I’m sorry I put the wrong information up, I had an off day that day and type in one program to post in another and do multiple, mostly for energy. Anyway, that continent has a huge resource problem, which is why it is building so many subs. They are a great defense from aircraft carriers.


sorry again.
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Old September 24th, 2012   #30
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Rough numbers but population of census 2010 around 312 million Americans. China, believe 1.9-2 billion as of Jan 2012.
That Chinese population figure is pure fantasy, & the article is nonsense. Its methods of calculation are a joke, & the bases on which they are calculated ridiculous. The 1990 census showed a population of 1.133 bn, not 1.3 bn, so projecting forward from that census on the basis of a starting population of 1.3 bn is ridiculous.

Its claim that the last census was in 2000/1 & was abandoned part-way through is false. The 2000 census was completed, & there was a census in November 2010. That census counted people by actual residency rather than registration, because the Chinese government was aware of the huge numbers of unregistered urban residents, & wished to get more accurate figures for real, rather than registered, populations. Indeed, the 2000 census also counted people by residence, regardelss of registration, provided they'd been living in the same location for at least 6 months, & thus counted 60 million more urban residents than the registers showed.

The 2010 census showed a population of 1.34 billion. While not 100% accurate, no serious demographers think this number is grossly inaccurate, & they'd all laugh at anyone who suggested the real population is 50% more.

There's no evidence of large numbers of unregistered people in rural areas. There are, in fact, about 200 million people registered as living in rural areas but absent, working in cities. Many of these people are legal temporary residents, but with permanent residency in the countryside, but many millions are living & working illegally in the cities - hence the spray-painted mobile phone numbers. But they still have legal residency registration - just in the countryside, not where they live.

The strict one child policy applies only to cities, not the countryside (though some rural officials are over-zealous), where the policy is not one child, but up to two. The old need for sons to work the family farm to support the aged parents is greatly diminished, & rapidly becoming completely obsolete. Rural areas are now largely, & increasingly, dependent on money earned by migrant workers, with grandparents looking after grandchildren whose parents work in cities & send money home. The government is also expanding the coverage of old-age pensions at an astonishingly fast rate.

Demographers express concern about two population problems in China, & neither of them is the presence of hundreds of millions of uncounted people. One is the skewed sex ratio (too many boys & young men), the other is the small number of children overall. The only reasons the population is still growing is because of increasing life expectancy, & demographic inertia, i.e. that past high growth is still working its way through, with a big bulge of 35-45 year olds & a smaller bulge of 20-25 year olds getting older.

Aha! Your article was published in September 2008. That explains the strange dates, but leads us to this question: why are you posting four year old articles as if they're current?

[Edit]
China Briefing is owned by an accountancy firm founded by a bloke called Christopher Anthony Devonshire-Ellis (described as principal of the firm), who is, one might say, an interesting character. He claims to be a Scottish baron. The barony was purchased last year. Note that it has been illegal to sell British noble titles since 1925, apart from Scottish feudal baronies. Official registers are maintained of English & other Scottish noble titles, but there is no official register of Scottish feudal baronies, leading to a proliferation of firms purporting to sell them. Even if the barony which has been bought is genuine, ownership of it does not give the owner a noble title, or the dignity of baron, or the right to arms. That has to be obtained by petitioning the Lord Lyon King of Arms.

Mr Ellis is accused of misrepresenting his academic qualifications, employment history, the nature of his acquisition of a Scottish feudal barony, & access to Chinese officials (specifically, making false claims of meetings with senior Chinese officials). I am not able to assess the accuracy of these accusations.

Christopher Devonshire-Ellis
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This should be borne in mind when reading the website.

Last edited by swerve; September 24th, 2012 at 02:18 PM.
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