ROC join PRC

[arkhan]

imagine this scenario....
one day, every citizens of taiwan wake up in the morning and they decide to join mainland china and the communist china accept them with open arm. so they made an announcement to the world they will be part of people republic of china. everybody was cought by surprise especially the US and Japan.
now my first question is what will be the reaction(s) of US government?
will they accept it? ROC armed forces with their western technology (especially from US) will be absorbed into PRC armed forces thus greatly increasing the might of PRC forces. will they ask PRC to return all military hardware and software to US or just accept this unforeseen fate and jusk ask for continuing payment from PRC.
my second question is, where will PRC put all their missiles aimed at taiwan? russian border or indian border or on taiwan itself ?
i know this scenario wont happened in the near future, so please dont discuss how, where, why or when it will happened. i just want to know what will happen after the joining of PRC and ROC.
mr. webbie, i hope this is a new thread, if it already open please provide the link. t.q

 

[Rich]

Ever meet anyone from Taiwan? It will never happen. Even if it does, which it never will, China will get no earth-shaking systems from the Taiwanese military. Its mostly our older stuff and stuff weve been exporting for 20+ years. Taiwans technology base would no doubt be welcome. But again, China is doing pretty good without it by conventional stealing/buying of secrets.

The biggest prize would be the political and strategic. Taiwan would make a nice , un-sinkable, aircraft carrier for them.

 

[EnigmaNZ]

Taiwan has an interesting history. Prior to 1600 it was basically uninhabited and unclaimed as such. Then the dutch and spanish moved in, the spanish were kicked out by the dutch. The dutch brought in workers from the mainland to work in the plantations. The dutch eventually left and the people left turned to piracy. China invaded and quelled things for a couple of centuries but eventually gave up. At the end of the 1800's the japanese asked the chinese to do something about the piracy based in formosa, as it was a continuing problem. China's reply was "what can we do about it" so japan stepped in and war erupted between china and japan.

In 1895 a peace treaty was signed between the 2, in it formosa was given to japan, prosumably because it was too much of a problem for china. Japan did a lot of developments on the island and everyone was happy. Then along came the 2nd world war. At the end of the war, the US occupied the island. Chinese troops came over briefly then returned to the mainland. In 1949 the communist took over in china and the nationalists hopped across to formosa, the US weren't sure what to do, so did nothing, it allowed the nationalist to stay as trustees.

In 1951 the san francisco treaty was signed between the main antagonist of the war, and repramation from japan was taken in the form of guam, the spratleys, formosa, and other small islands. Guam were asked what they wanted, they choose independant and were given it, the spratleys and formosa were removed from japan, but left in limbo, which is why we have every country in the area laying claim to the spratleys now there may be oil and gas under it. The inhabitants of formosa were asked what they wanted, they chose to be a state of the US, some wanted to return to being part of japan, none wanted to be part of china, who had done nothing for them. The US got tied up in the war on communism and korea, and put in place a treaty with formosa that they would help to protect them from any attack from china. But the question of independence, or attacting them to somewhere was not resolved, and to this day, formosa, now taiwan, is a protectorate of the US, but does not belong to china, who signed it over to japan in 1895, and has no legal claim to the island since.

Its a pity the US and the UN didn't give the island independence back then as they did with guam, it would avoid a war over the island that will eventuate at some point in the future. For further info google it.

 

[crobato]

Your history of Taiwan is quite a fable.

Taiwan was inhabited by Austronesian aboringes similar to those in the Northern Philippines lke the Igorots.

http://www.marimari.com/content/taiwan/general_info/people/people.html

Archelogical evidence also shows Han visitation of the island going back to the BC period, as well as that of sea faring tribes from the Fujian coast.

China was in turmoil while the Europeans colonized the Far East. The Dutch came to Formosa, as the island the Portugese named it. There were already Chinese ports there since that region was busy when it comes to both piracy and trade.

The Dutch were kicked out by Lord Koxinga. Koxinga was the son of a Ming Dynasty official and a Japanese lady, and was born in Nagasaki. When he was around, his father took him to China. Koxinga became a general under the Ming banner fighting against the encrouching Manchus. As China fell under Manchu rule, Koxinga took his forces to the sea (he had a very big fleet of hundreds of Junks).

He forced the Dutch to abdicate Formosa and ceded Taiwan to him, where he hoisted the Ming banner on the island. There he held out against the Manchus. Eventually, a generation later, his son surrendered to the Qing (Manchu Dynasty).

Koxinga remains celebrated in both China, Taiwan and Japan, where traditional plays are written about him.

The last post is pure fantasy.

Guam was never given a choice under the San Francisco Treaty. It remained under continous US rule since the end of the Spanish American War with the exception of Japanese rule during WWII. And if the last poster thinks that Guam is independent hehe, you must be living in an alternative sci-fi DIMENSION.

Taiwan was occupied by the Republic of China/Kuomintang since 1949 when the KMT was kicked out of the mainland. Taiwan was returned in 1945 to the ROC after Japan's defeat as part of the surrender terms.

Okinawa remained under US rule until 1972, where they were given a referendum to remain under the US or be a part of Japan. They voted to with Japan.

 

[crobato]

Ever meet anyone from Taiwan? It will never happen.

Exactly. Ever meet anyone from Taiwan? Exactly why I think it would happen. Not now. But eventually.

Just as a note. The pro-independence Chen Su Bien only won 39% of the vote, but he did win because the pro-unification groups had the vote divided into two candidates, James Soong and the KMT's Lien Chan.

Why do you think one of Taiwan's most famous scions, Winston Wang of the Nanya conglomerate and one of the founders of TSMC, would joint venture with Jiang Zhemin's song to form Grace Semiconductor, and transfer some of the most vital technological jewels from Taiwan to China. Just one of the countless joint ventures between Taiwan and the PRC.

The scientist accused of espionage in the US of spying for the PRC, Weng Ho Lee, is Taiwanese.

Why, despite of the "threat" from China, the Taiwan military keeps cutting back.

Why over 800,000 Taiwanese are in China doing big business.

 

[chinawhite]

EnigmaNZ,

Your post has so much inaccuraices in it, Who ever told you such things should be shot. The dutch did not leave they were defeated. The pirates in the 17th century were japanese. The 1894-1895 war was over korea and manchuria nothing to do with pirates. The US never landed on taiwan. The US never could have gave taiwan indendence.

Here is a post i made in another forum, Something alone the lines againest what your saying

First of all i would like to say that china does not include chinas history or a specifc ethnic group but it refers to the people within in the PRC.

A half-Japanese pirate, and Ming loyalist, by the name of Koxinga (Jheng Chenggong) led a naval raid on the Dutch settlement at Anping (present-day Tainan) and ousted the Dutch in 1660. However, the Ming Dynasty had fallen nearly two decades earlier and he had no authority from the Ming remnants fighting a losing battle in southwestern China at the time. Thus, it cannot be said that Chinese sovereignty over Taiwan was assumed at that time.

Wow,

In one paragraph you managed to disrespect a chinese hero and the role he played in taiwan. Zheng Chenggong was not a pirate, He was in the goddamn Ming army and a high offical. His father was a pirate and also the commander of all Ming forces at one stage, He was also the richest man in china at the time. He wanted his son to have a education and everything he wanted so Zheng Chenggong was taught by private tutours and taught to love poetry and was a scholar at first. He is a chiense hero because of his stance againest a foriegn power.

Now lets go into his other name Konxinga. It means "Lord with the royal last name". It was given to him by the then acting emperor of china. Right away it tells you he had significance within the Ming court.

When he ousted the the dutch from their little outpost he did it for the Ming dynasty and had every authority to claim the island for the Ming, which he did. Because he was a Ming general and could act with out a response from the Ming emperor. So when he conquered taiwan he conquered it for the Mig and later on china.

While the Ming were on the run and weren't in control of beijing at this point the they still admisited a lot of terrioty and still were waging war againest the Qing in Yunnan and later on in Burma. They had emperors and such with lower amount of imperil blood(two of which were appointed in Nanjing it is ignorant to say or think that the Ming ended in beijing

In 1624, the Dutch established a trade outpost in the Pescadores. This elicited the opposition of the Ming Chinese government, who ousted the Dutch. The Ming, however, offered no objection to the Dutch using southern Taiwan as an outpost because they conceded that it was outside their jurisdiction.

When you ask this you must ask what do you say as in chinese?. It was not administored by the Ming but was used by pirates as a staging post to ship their silk trade and spieces to japan from china. Because if you say that the dutch actually took over a chiense settlement already their and later on attracted other people to that trade outpost.

But if thats what your saying taiwan would effectively be under the rule of Zheng Zhilong and thus become under the influence of a chinese person. China at the time was under turmoil and corruption was the norm to survive. So the Ming enlisted the help of pirates to keep control and could be called warlords. A Ming ally is also Ming terrioty.

When the dutch went looking for a spot to trade they asked the Ming officals where to. They said taiwan hoping the dutch would help get rid of the pirates aswell. two birds for one stone.

Treaties

At the time the Qing dynasty did not control the china they had on the maps but there were serval rebellions all over china. At any one time 1/5~2/5 of Chian would be under different hands. The Manchus signed a treaty with the japanese not the chinese.

As of now the PRC nor the KMT reconizes the vailty of the Treaty of Shimonoseki and any other treaty the Manchus signed with the western countries which was forced upon them. At the time of the signing of Shimonoseki. Most of china was in uproar denoucing the treaty and they did not accept it. How can the Manchu sign off something from the people they did not represent.

You found a technically in the law which was draw up after 1945. If this is the whole foundation for taiwanese independence it is very weak. It is not even a strong case because the Pan-green would be waving it around like they found a elixir.

--------------------------

Lets just say the Treaty of Shimonoseki has validity. When the SFPT was signed the japanese signed off all those treaties they had signed with the Qing dynasty and all those claims they could make for better trading with asian countries.

When the japanese gave up their treaties it reverted back to a stage like nothing ever happened to those countries polictically or technically. This section is before the section where japan gave up her land. With the treaties section before the giving up of the land section. The giving up claims to land becomes null. I guess the SFPT is all that you are basing this on isn't it?

After 1945 the KMT took over the taiwan to administor it which was under the control of taiwan and cannot be claimed to be terra nullius because it had a government system inplace when the SFPT was ratified. Im not going to even get in to the validity of the SFPT because it was made under the conditions and againest a certian country when it was made.

--------------------------.

Now tell me what treaties the british or the spanish or the americans signed to the native populations when they took their land?. Why does treaties apply to some instancews and not others.

Why dont the migrant australians from post 1788 australia just give up the land and let the aboriginals live their. Where were the treaties or should i be asking where are the treaties now?.

And still retains a strong presence in local Taiwanese politics

While from the recent pre-election we saw how strong this hold was.

KMT wins in a landslide

KMT crushes DPP in landslide victory

Now that tells you something about how much the taiawnese want independence or economic progress. After all the hate you said before about the KMT they managed to beat the almightly DPP which has not delivered economic progress or polictical reforms. Wait until the real election to see the real results.

Conclusion

I asked you this before but why are the taiwanese wanting independence?. Because they are a different ethnic group or were they taught to hate communism or the CCP?.

 

[chinawhite]

Ever meet anyone from Taiwan?

Yes, My cousin which is living in my house on a student visa

 

[EnigmaNZ]

Ok, this explains what happened to the dutch on the island. They were ousted, interesting to see how honorable the chinese side was as the victor.

http://www.taiwandocuments.org/koxinga.htm

(b) Japan renounces all right, title and claim to Formosa and the Pescadores.

http://www.uni-erfurt.de/ostasiatische_geschichte/texte/japan/dokumente/19/19510908_treaty.htm

An interesting analysis of the meaning of the SFPT at the time of its inception. Basically, according to established international law, Taiwan is still under US military government until it is supplanted.

"Taiwan is currently being held by a military administration
(under USMG) and has not been transferred to a civilian
administration (civil government) in the technical sense. This
is the reason why during the last fifty years, the ROC authorities have lawfully exercised “the colonial powers of local
military governors of a self-governing dominion under
SFPT interim status.â€

"Thus the specifications of the 1895 Treaty of Shimonoseki
which ceded Taiwan to Japan are in no way subject to
“retroactive cancellation."
Furthermore, upon the coming into force of the
1895 Treaty, all previous claims of China regarding the
ownership of Taiwan and the Pescadores, whether due to
history, culture, language, race, geography, geology, etc.
became null and void.

(C.) In the SFPT, Japan ceded Taiwan, however no
“receiving country†for the cession was specified. Article
2 of the Sino-Japanese peace treaty, effective August 5,
1952, merely quoted this SFPT provision. However, some
scholars still maintain that the Sino-Japanese peace treaty,
between Japan and the ROC, must be interpreted as
transferring the sovereignty of Taiwan to the ROC, since
one party “ceded,†so of course the other party “received.â€
However, this analysis is erroneous because
Japan was not holding the sovereignty of Taiwan after
April 28, 1952."

http://www.uni-erfurt.de/ostasiatische_geschichte/texte/japan/dokumente/19/19510908_treaty.htm

"Hence under the US Supreme Court's Insular Cases, the US Constitution, the laws of war, the San Francisco Peace Treaty, and the SFPT-authorized Sino-Japanese Peace Treaty (Treaty of Taipei), the native inhabitants of Taiwan remain either as (1) Japanese nationals, thus owing their allegiance to Japan, or (2) nationals of the principal occupying power, and thus owing their allegiance to the principal occupying power. This analysis would flow directly from the concept of "temporary allegiance" under the law of occupation, which is discussed in many US Supreme Court cases.

Japanese courts have not recognized the native persons of Taiwan as Japanese nationals since the Spring of 1952. In other words, under Japanese law, and indeed under international law, native persons of Taiwan currently owe no allegiance to the government of Japan.

This leaves us with only one other possibility. The native inhabitants of Taiwan must be correctly classified as US (non-citizen) nationals... In the San Francisco Peace Treaty, the United States is specified as the principal occupying power."

http://www.taiwanadvice.com/fapa/sfpt_quic2b.htm

 

[EnigmaNZ]

"China has no sovereignty over Taiwan, because China has no title to the island of Taiwan under international law. Since China ceded Formosa (Portuguese name for the island of Taiwan) to Japan in 1895 under the Treaty of Shimonoseki, it has never reacquired title to the island of Taiwan. After Japan surrendered in 1945, under the direction of the U.S. Government, General MacArthur assigned the task of accepting the surrender of the Japanese commanders in Taiwan to Chiang Kai-Shek's government, Republic of China(ROC). Thus, the ROC government occupied the island of Taiwan as an agent of the U.S. Government, not on behalf of China. The occupation of the island by the ROC government does not make Taiwan China's territory. British's Foreign Secretary Anthony Eden once stated in the House of Common, "In September 1945, the administration of Formosa was taken over from the Japanese by Chinese forces. But this was not a cession, nor did it in itself involve any change of sovereignty." In May 1951, after Chiang Kai-Shek's government had occupied the island for five years, General MacArthur, at a Congressional hearing said, "legalistically Formosa is still a part of the Empire of Japan."

When the Peace Treaty of San Francisco was signed in September 1951 during the Truman Administration, China did not acquire title to the island of Taiwan as a consequence of the Treaty. Article 2(b) of the Treaty provides that "Japan renounces all right, title and claim to Formosa and the Pescadores," without designating a transferee. The interpretations of the U.S. and the U.K. Governments with respect to Art. 2(b) of the Peace Treaty are unanimous: China has not acquired title to the island of Taiwan under the Treaty. At the Conference in San Francisco for signing the Peace Treaty, John Dulles, the drafter of the Treaty, referring to the disposition of the island of Taiwan, remarked, "Article 2 . . . merely delimits Japanese sovereignty. Specifying precisely the ultimate disposition of the ex-Japanese territories . . . would have been neater. But . . . the Allies quarrel about what shall be done with what Japan is required to give up. The wise course was . . . leaving the future to resolve doubts by invoking international solvents other than this Treaty."

http://www.natpa.org/Voice/1071426558/displayArticle.html

 

[Rich]

The Taiwanese arent just going to fold over, give up their freedoms, and become a province of communist China. A war to take the Island becomes less and less possible every year, "I believe". The mainland Chinese simply have to much to lose.

A high tech war against Taiwan and the USN is the last thing the Chinese want, especially against the USN.

 

[crobato]

This leaves us with only one other possibility. The native inhabitants of Taiwan must be correctly classified as US (non-citizen) nationals... In the San Francisco Peace Treaty, the United States is specified as the principal occupying power."

Except that the US had agreed to turn over Taiwan back to the ROC government in World War II. And they did it. Furthermore, the US is not an occupying power of Taiwan, since Taiwan was never occupied by the US at all.

That the US and the UN recognized the Republic of China also meant its recognition that Taiwan is part of the ROC.

The Taiwanese arent just going to fold over, give up their freedoms, and become a province of communist China. A war to take the Island becomes less and less possible every year, "I believe". The mainland Chinese simply have to much to lose.

In a way that is true, but at the same time, the Taiwanese has become a lot more economically integrated with China, in such an extent that already even today, Taiwan and China can be considered economically unified. If you ever been in a multinational corporation, China-Taiwan-HK is often referred to simply as a single market called "Greater China". So the converse is also true, Taiwan cannot declare independence without massive economic effects on the island. Furthermore, Taiwan's business elite, which is the real ruling class in Taiwan, would not allow such a seperation. They would pull the legs off and any funding off from any pro-independence movement or party, and this is in effect what has been happening to the DPP lately.

Funny how many ROC military officers retire in the Chinese mainland.

 

[chinawhite]

EnigmaNZ,

Im going to tell you something. In the SFPT. Japan gave up all the treaties it signed with china. in effect making as if nothing happened in the legal sense. So when the japanese signed on the SFPT they gave up the treaties which than riverted back to chinese hands.

The potsdam declaration was agreed when japan agreed when they signed the intent to end war on the US battle ship missouri.

INSTRUMENT OF SURRENDER BY JAPAN

"We, acting by command of and in behalf of the Emperor of Japan, the Japanese Government and the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters, hereby accept the provisions set forth in the declaration issued by the heads of the Governments of the United States, China and Great Britain on 26 July 1945 at Potsdam, and subsequently adhered to by the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, which four powers are hereafter referred to as the Allied Powers. "

The Potsdam declaration
"(8) The terms of the Cairo Declaration shall be carried out and Japanese sovereignty shall be limited to the islands of Honshu, Hokkaido, Kyushu, Shikoku and such minor islands as we determine."
http://www.taiwandocuments.org/potsdam.htm

Cairo Conference
"It is their purpose that Japan shall be stripped of all the islands in the Pacific which she has seized or occupied since the beginning of the First World War in 1914, and that all the territories Japan has stolen from the Chinese, such as Manchuria, Formosa, and the Pescadores, shall be restored to the Republic of China."
http://www.taiwandocuments.org/cairo.htm

And
http://www.taiwandocuments.org/glossary1.htm#declarations

 

[sidious]

The Taiwanese arent just going to fold over, give up their freedoms, and become a province of communist China. A war to take the Island becomes less and less possible every year, "I believe". The mainland Chinese simply have to much to lose.
A high tech war against Taiwan and the USN is the last thing the Chinese want, especially against the USN.

I belive you should try talking to some chinese people before posting!!!!!!:lul

hardly any one belive that communist crap no !!!!! this alone shows your ignornce

with you passinf there is lesschance of taiwanese wining as chinas army becomes stronger

andno US will not deter china from captureing taiwan in it declares indenpance

during the korean war the odds proved even less for china, yet they manage to drive the UN forces back to the 38s

Mod editath:Watch your tone please! I don't want you throwing flame baits in here.

 

[Pathfinder-X]

Just to put an end to the arguments on the history of Taiwan.

Natives of Taiwan is currently numbered at 440,000, making up roughly 2% of the population on the island. It was estimated that Mainlanders knew of the existance of the island in the 3rd century and Mainland Han Chinese had settled on Penghu as early as the 11th century. During the period of Admiral Zheng He's voyage in Ming Dynasty, his fleet passed the island on several occasions, and rumored to have visited the Han settlements. The main dialect besides Mandarin in Taiwan today, Tai Yu(Taiwanese), is a variation of Min Nan dialect of the Mainland Fujian province.

It was discovered by Europeans around the period of 1544 and colonized by the Dutch in the mid 1600's. A large number of workers from Mainland was imported as labourers. However, a European colony on the island considered by the Southern Ming emperor as part of his empire was the ultimate insult to his rule. In 1662, Zheng Cheng Gong(Lord Koxingga) expelled the Dutch forces from the island and establish his own kingdom(Dong Ling) since the Southern Ming had fallen to Manchurians.

The Qing Dynasty, ruled by Manchu Chinese, toppled and seized the island from the Cheng family in 1683. Taiwan was then placed under to juristiction of Fujian province. Large number of immigrants from Mainland escaped to Taiwan for various reasons after the chaotic period that followed. Some of the natives formed familes with the immigrants, while others continued to place themselves in isolation in the mountains. Taiwan was granted the status of province in 1887, 204 years after it was taken over by Qing Dynasty.

With the defeat of Qing Dynasty military at the hands of Japanese in the late 1800's, Taiwan and Penghu was handed surrendered as payment for the defeat. The Japanese gave those on the island who with to remain loyal subject to Qing Dynasty a 2 year period to move back to mainland. Some of the inhabitants formed the Taiwan Republic with the title Yong Qing(Eternal Qing) and attempted to resist the Japanese. However they were quickly crushed by the Japanese army.

You all know the story after that. Japan lost the war, Taiwan handed back to China, communist take over mainland, KMT ran to Taiwan after civil war etc.....

 

[EnigmaNZ]

http://www.taiwandc.org/hst-1624.htm

It seems Taiwan history depends on who is telling it.

The San Francisco Peace Treaty
In 1951-52 the Allied Powers and Japan formally concluded World War II by concluding the San Francisco Peace Treaty. That Treaty is important for Taiwan, because it decided that Japan gave up sovereignty over Taiwan, but it was not determined who was the beneficiary: it was concluded that "...the future status of Taiwan will be decided in accord with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations."

The Charter of the UN contains article 1.2 which states that it is a purpose of the UN "To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples..." The formal result of the San Francisco Peace Treaty is thus that the people of Taiwan should determine the future status of the island based on the principle of self-determination. This Treaty is thus the first, and the last, international treaty of the 20th Century which deals with the status of Taiwan.

http://www.taiwandocuments.org/summary.htm

You left out the important pieces from that site.
The following is a synopsis of the impact of international agreements on the legal status of Taiwan:
1. Article 2 of the Treaty of Shimonoseki (1895) ceded Formosa, her dependencies, and the Pescadores from China to Japan in "perpetuity and full sovereignty." Japan's sovereignty over the islands would not be disputed by China or any other state for the next 50 years.

2. In paragraph 3 of the Cairo Declaration (1943), the United States, Great Britain, and China declared that "it is their purpose that Japan shall be stripped of all the islands in the Pacific which she has seized or occupied since the beginning of the First World War in 1914, and that all the territories Japan has stolen from the Chinese, such as Manchuria, Formosa, and the Pescadores, shall be restored to the Republic of China." This and the following two declarations were unilateral statements of intent, not legally binding on the declarants, much less so Japan, the title-holder to Formosa. The Cairo Declaration, intended only as a press release, was issued without signatures. From their language, it is clear that the conference statements are not of the variety of declarations that possess legal force. Indeed, some of the provisions of at least one of the declarations were repudiated by one of the declarants, the United States of America, in her ratification of the Treaty of Peace with Japan. Moreover, the term "restored" was used in reference to the Republic of China without specifying, though assuming, the Republic of China as the successor to the "Ta Ching Empire," the legal person that had ceded Formosa to Japan. The Republic of China never held possession of Formosa, nor did she claim rights to her until the onset of war with Japan.

3. The Agreement Regarding Japan contained in the Yalta Declaration (1945) is silent on the disposition of Formosa.

4. Section 3-b(8) of Annex II of the Potsdam Declaration (1945) makes reference to the Cairo Declaration stating "The terms of the Cairo Declaration shall be carried out and Japanese sovereignty shall be limited to the islands of Honshu, Hokkaido, Kyushu, Shikoku and such minor islands as we determine."

5. Under the Instrument of Surrender signed in September 1945 by Japan and the Allies, Japan explicitly accepted the provisions of the Potsdam Declaration, and thus implicitly accepted the provision of the Cairo Declaration "that all the territories Japan has stolen from the Chinese, such as Manchuria, Formosa, and the Pescadores, shall be restored to the Republic of China." The Instrument of Surrender gave legal effect to the Allied Conference Declarations hitherto absent. However, the Instrument was a record only of provisional arrangements, a modus vivendi, that anticipated replacement by a more permanent and detailed settlement. The Instrument required no ratification and does not have the legal force of a treaty.

Anyone interested needs to read the rest from the site, it is a long sumary, this being only the beginning.

 

[The_Zergling]

Guys, I believe this thread has gone kinda off topic...
To my understanding the intent of the original poster was to ask whether or not the technology the ROC has would be a strong blow to the US if China acquired it.

Whether or not this will actually happen in the future is open to debate, but I would think it would be in another thread...

And I think generalizing is one of the most ignorant things to do. Saying "All Taiwanese don't want to unify" or "All Taiwanese want to unify" is a grave misunderstanding, there are too many factors to simply lump everyone together.

 

[arkhan]

Guys, I believe this thread has gone kinda off topic...
To my understanding the intent of the original poster was to ask whether or not the technology the ROC has would be a strong blow to the US if China acquired it.

Whether or not this will actually happen in the future is open to debate, but I would think it would be in another thread...

And I think generalizing is one of the most ignorant things to do. Saying "All Taiwanese don't want to unify" or "All Taiwanese want to unify" is a grave misunderstanding, there are too many factors to simply lump everyone together.

yeah, zergling is right.
i ask totally different questions and i get history involving the dutch, japanese and everybody else.
i believe they will unite someday, not by force of military or politics but by economic reasons. a lot of taiwanese companies have moved their factories from the island to the mainland.
china buying ibm ? to challenge Acer and BenQ.
in few years time china economic power will surpass german, french and even uk. by that time, a lot of business contract for taiwan will be 'taken' by mainland companies and slowly economy of taiwan will be suffering.
these reasoning may sound trivial to some, but economic power might help china in dealing with taiwan

 

[Izzy1]

Let us be realistic here. Any attempt by the CCP and the PLA to take Taiwan would be a massive gamble.

It is easy and in the best interests of Beijing to sabre-rattle over Taiwanese independence. The threat of PLA invasion in many ways is more powerful a tool for the mainland than the reality. Yet if Taipai went down that road tomorrow and called independence, what could the mainland really do about it?

A successful PLA military intervention is far from clear-cut, with the only certainty being that it would be costly for all sides involved. If invasion is not a certainity - is the PRC willing to gamble??

For failure would erode the prestige of the leadership and seriously weaken its grip over a nation that has more than enough internal problems already without getting embroiled with Taiwan (Xinyang, Chengdu, growing Rural/Urban class differences and a increasingly vocal youth). China is also aware that she is surrounded by potential adversories who would gain from such a loss - the US, India, Japan, Vietnam, South Korea even Russia and the Central Asian Republics. Even if an invasion was indeed successful, there are very few long-term advantages to such a victory. Economic sanctions would be inevitable, a war-affected economy would hamper continuing growth not too mention the possible need and cost for an army of occupation in Taiwan. Short term nationalist/prestige gains would inevitably have to give over to reality (just like today in Iraq).

Thus, I do believe that an attack by the PRC against ROC is not as inevitable as some commentators suggest and definitely not as straightforward, simple or certain as many believe.