The Possiblity of an Sino - US Alliance

[Mouse]

Hi, everyone. I am new here.

I came from China, Where most dude would like to portray the U.S. and Japan as the ultimate satan of the universe on the internet. But privately most of the younger generation would be more willing to see a Sino - US - EU Alliance keeping the world order. In fact, most of the population consider U.S. as the country's best friends, if the U.S. would leave Taiwan alone. Since discuss such an alliance on a Chinese Forum would cause me to be bombard with all kinds of hell, may be even life threats, as I was a traitor of the nation, :shudder therefore, I come here and wish to here more from the crowds worldwide.

PS, why do so many people on the forum call China a communist country and a communist threat. In fact, Chinese left wing thinkers consider those EU countries with much better social wellfare more likely to become communist countries. Communist in PRC, even in CCP are considered a Joke, an outdated Funny costume everyone have to put on everyday. After all, communist is all about social wellfare, equlities, human rights, right? The True Communist academician are hated by CCP, since they always demand a better life for poor people which may hurt the government's interest in the economics(actually government personal interest in profit). I guess even U.S. are more close to communist than PRC since a U.S. citizen can have free junior education and much better affordable medication. Conclusion, PRC is more close to the UK in the 19 century

 

[Schumacher]

I suspect this thread will have a short life.

Alliance is mostly formed when there's a need for joint force against a common enemy. China & US can pretty much go solo against any other nations in the world. The only opponent against which they might need ally is perhaps each other.
So Sino-US alliance is mostly day-dreaming.

 

[Mouse]

Good point, but let's just say the planet would be much better if the super powers or the potential super power become much more trust to each other, as members of EU did. For example if Sino - US Alliance formed, Iran will more likely to be content with the international community. Since China currently see the US a serious threat who now seeks to weaken the country on the many issues. From chinese view, the US would much more like a week 19th century backward African Style country than a 21th century democratic one. They believe that latter will challenge the US which US would like to get rid of. Therefore I believe currently chinese would like the US occupied, keep busy, as China could catch a breath to deal with its more serious internal issues. Therefore, some of the PRC officials would like see a more bully Iran than a content one. They are saying that" Ok, You are selling weapon to Taiwan, support Xinjiang separatist and Terroist and calling freedom fighters, fine, We will sell weapons to Iran."

I believe it's more about mutual - trust and world stability than go to a war

 

[ever4244]

Hi, everyone. I am new here.

I came from China, Where most dude would like to portray the U.S. and Japan as the ultimate satan of the universe on the internet. But privately most of the younger generation would be more willing to see a Sino - US - EU Alliance keeping the world order. In fact, most of the population consider U.S. as the country's best friends, if the U.S. would leave Taiwan alone. Since discuss such an alliance on a Chinese Forum would cause me to be bombard with all kinds of hell, may be even life threats, as I was a traitor of the nation, :shudder therefore, I come here and wish to here more from the crowds worldwide.

PS, why do so many people on the forum call China a communist country and a communist threat. In fact, Chinese left wing thinkers consider those EU countries with much better social wellfare more likely to become communist countries. Communist in PRC, even in CCP are considered a Joke, an outdated Funny costume everyone have to put on everyday. After all, communist is all about social wellfare, equlities, human rights, right? The True Communist academician are hated by CCP, since they always demand a better life for poor people which may hurt the government's interest in the economics(actually government personal interest in profit). I guess even U.S. are more close to communist than PRC since a U.S. citizen can have free junior education and much better affordable medication. Conclusion, PRC is more close to the UK in the 19 century

Oh,dear, I ve already been enlightened that we re a dictatorial state with a stream of fascism. plus, If we were truely communist state maybe we could have been more popular :unknown.

US don t care if China is a communist state. He cares those who has the potential to defeat him . However, if one US-like nation beat US, their way of life wont change. But if China beat US or US beat China,they ll force the prey to fit to a shoe desighed for him.That s both US and China fear most.

Tip: hope you could keep good mood till the end when you start a thread about China

 

[ever4244]

Good point, but let's just say the planet would be much better if the super powers or the potential super power become much more trust to each other, as members of EU did. For example if Sino - US Alliance formed, Iran will more likely to be content with the international community. Since China currently see the US a serious threat who now seeks to weaken the country on the many issues. From chinese view, the US would much more like a week 19th century backward African Style country than a 21th century democratic one. They believe that latter will challenge the US which US would like to get rid of. Therefore I believe currently chinese would like the US occupied, keep busy, as China could catch a breath to deal with its more serious internal issues. Therefore, some of the PRC officials would like see a more bully Iran than a content one. They are saying that" Ok, You are selling weapon to Taiwan, support Xinjiang separatist and Terroist and calling freedom fighters, fine, We will sell weapons to Iran."

I believe it's more about mutual - trust and world stability than go to a war

Powers trust each other? It remind me UK and France divide africa like a cake
hundreds years ago------how geniusly to use longitude and latitude.
Hope powers can ever keep a eye on each other, otherwise there would be a central standing committee to dominate the world instead of UN.

Personally I would like see how chinese weapon would perform in Iran ,so we can see if our tax used fairly . US has experiment his weapon all over the world ,but we don t know the slightest of what s in our arsenal truly(potato or grenade? ) and how to improve them.

 

[EnigmaNZ]

I think US focus these days is more to the ME and fundementalist islam than on China. In fact if the Taiwan situation was sorted in '51 instead of being left in limbo all these years, maybe the would be a much closer Sino - US relationship. Instead in the present situation, the US knows that at some point it is going to have to go to Taiwans assistance against China, and that thought is always present.

The Clinton administration helped China with advanced tech to improve it's satelite launching ability, and that technology found its way in a new generation of Chinese ICBMs that are primarily targeted against the US. China was sold advanced CAD technology to help its new megayacht industry, and that technology is used to design a new generation of improved military equipment, warships, submarines etc. Then that equipment is sold on to other regimes the US sees as being future antagonist, North Korea, Iran, etc.
The US then gets annoyed that China (Russia etc) seem intent on assisting militarily regimes that the US is trying to keep a lid on.

Just my take on it from the vantage point of a small country out of the way.

 

[Scott]

US don t care if China is a communist state. He cares those who has the potential to defeat him . However, if one US-like nation beat US, their way of life wont change. But if China beat US or US beat China,they ll force the prey to fit to a shoe desighed for him.That s both US and China fear most.

No, because the US doesn't think anyone can defeat us. We can be hurt, but even if we lack military superiority, MAD rules out anyone defeating the US - hello nuclear winter.

The US is concerned with anyone that 1) might attack us and our allies or 2) aides those that might.

China poses a military threat, but just as important, you're never going to become our ally while providing assistance to Iran's nuclear program and protecting NK.

Considering that most countries, China included, have large trade imbalances with the US, you'd think that more countries would be concerned with our continued ability (and willingness?) to buy those goods and services. That's an oversimplification of a highly complex global economy, but it's worth consideration.

If the US was attacked and our economy tanked, what would happen if we could no longer afford to purchase goods from countries like China, that are increasingly dependent on the US to buy their exports.

It's also interesting to consider the tactics of a US retailer in the 1960's. After they grew to be the dominant purchaser of a company's product, they threatened to buy from another supplier unless they made substantial concessions to the retailer.

 

[ever4244]

No, because the US doesn't think anyone can defeat us. We can be hurt, but even if we lack military superiority, MAD rules out anyone defeating the US - hello nuclear winter.

The US is concerned with anyone that 1) might attack us and our allies or 2) aides those that might.

China poses a military threat, but just as important, you're never going to become our ally while providing assistance to Iran's nuclear program and protecting NK.

Considering that most countries, China included, have large trade imbalances with the US, you'd think that more countries would be concerned with our continued ability (and willingness?) to buy those goods and services. That's an oversimplification of a highly complex global economy, but it's worth consideration.

If the US was attacked and our economy tanked, what would happen if we could no longer afford to purchase goods from countries like China, that are increasingly dependent on the US to buy their exports.

It's also interesting to consider the tactics of a US retailer in the 1960's. After they grew to be the dominant purchaser of a company's product, they threatened to buy from another supplier unless they made substantial concessions to the retailer.

If war break out ,both US and china s economy will be hurt,.the situation is that US is buyer and China just one of the seller, so if US stop buying China s good , our economy will be probably traped in freezing cold . on the other hand China return US most of export income by loan to US thousands billion dollar to sustain US s purchasing ability. So if China broken , and close out all his foreign exchange storation and US national debt, $ will become as worthless as ruble.
However a war time goverment control may change all that situation , China can use war machine to comsume her surplus producing ablity , and US gov can take over banks to appease capital escape and use war time loan , gold storation to restore $.

economy chain can t ensure the ever peace between US and China.therefore there is another chain------NK, Iran and taiwan province etc. US and China know how to exhaust each other on those fringe issue (they re not deadliness,however they can never be ignore) If China ever did something made US very unpleased , then US will provoke taiwan s splittism to made China feel very very uneasy. the same happen when US made china very upset, they ll surely find Iran begin to enrich something, and NK begins to launch something.There is proverb: Saving his life can make a man feel gratitude to you, Sparing his life can make a man loyal to you.

IMHO: you misunderstand the cause and effect . It s not China deliberately support Iran and NK, It US connered China first so there is no one else we can turn to. If somehow US feel like to trouble China ,can we support Japan and expect him speaking against US? Few country in the world dare---------except for NK, Iran and Venezuela````, So we have to use NK and Iran to trouble US and kept him busy and touchly sensate the necessity of cooperating with China.
BTW:However most of NK and Iran s provoking action are not caused by China