Philippines to Re-Focus on Territorial Defence in 2012

Acadiana Pirate

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German naval assets

Since the Philippines is in need of ships asap, they should consider at least a couple of the Bremen class Frigates and the Gepard class FACS. 100 million will go a long way. A single Bremen and a couple of Gepards can match the most modern destroyer of China. 8 Bremens and 10 Gepards are about to be retired. Maybe they can look at the Type 22's Batch 3 of UK. I believe they just retired 4 this year. Maybe slightly older than the Bremens and maybe expensive to maintain. Armaments are a lot older too but enough to make the Chinese think twice with their destroyers lingering in the Spratly's unmatched.
 

legoboy

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Since the Philippines is in need of ships asap, they should consider at least a couple of the Bremen class Frigates and the Gepard class FACS. 100 million will go a long way. A single Bremen and a couple of Gepards can match the most modern destroyer of China. 8 Bremens and 10 Gepards are about to be retired. Maybe they can look at the Type 22's Batch 3 of UK. I believe they just retired 4 this year. Maybe slightly older than the Bremens and maybe expensive to maintain. Armaments are a lot older too but enough to make the Chinese think twice with their destroyers lingering in the Spratly's unmatched.
1 Bremen and 2 Gepards can match in quality yes, but hardly in quantity, when push comes to shove a single airstrike would take out half of the Philippines Navy in a single blow. If the Chinese want to go into the Spratlys I'm sure they will. The Philippines will never be the instigators of a conflict, although these extra vessels might help deter the Chinese from entering the Spratlys so freely.

Also I don't think 100million is going to buy much. Might get 1 second hand Bremen and 2 second hand Gepards.

There is also the situation of the Philippines not having any crew. You don't just have hundreds of Frigate officers standing around. It would take some time before they could assemble a well trained crew for these ships.
 

ManilaBoy

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1 Bremen and 2 Gepards can match in quality yes, but hardly in quantity, when push comes to shove a single airstrike would take out half of the Philippines Navy in a single blow. If the Chinese want to go into the Spratlys I'm sure they will. The Philippines will never be the instigators of a conflict, although these extra vessels might help deter the Chinese from entering the Spratlys so freely.

Also I don't think 100million is going to buy much. Might get 1 second hand Bremen and 2 second hand Gepards.

There is also the situation of the Philippines not having any crew. You don't just have hundreds of Frigate officers standing around. It would take some time before they could assemble a well trained crew for these ships.
I agree with your statement except the last part , there are plenty of naval officers and enlisted personnel available to manned newly acquired vessels but they do have to go tru training which could take months to complete and is usually done before a ship is commission into service...
 

Acadiana Pirate

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I agree with your statement except the last part , there are plenty of naval officers and enlisted personnel available to manned newly acquired vessels but they do have to go tru training which could take months to complete and is usually done before a ship is commission into service...
I agree with you Manila Boy. PHL, being the biggest provider of merchant marines in the world and lots of junk PN navy ships that should have been retired long time ago, its crew could be shifted to the newer boats. It's not like the case such as Sweden's lack of Naval officers and men. That is why they can afford to give away their Goteborg class corvettes as carrots to anyone interested in buying the Grippens because they were just sitting in the docks because of lack of manpower to put them in patrols. There is no other choice but to fasttract them to learn newer equipment. Albatross class FACs were sold recently for $13 million each and is similar to the Gepards.

Bremens are probably as heavily armed as there is compared to any frigates in the world. The J fighters of China will think twice coming from over 500 miles away and encounter these German warships. Besides it is also armed with Super Lynx's with ASMs and ASW sonars.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
Since the Philippines is in need of ships asap, they should consider at least a couple of the Bremen class Frigates and the Gepard class FACS. 100 million will go a long way. A single Bremen and a couple of Gepards can match the most modern destroyer of China. 8 Bremens and 10 Gepards are about to be retired. Maybe they can look at the Type 22's Batch 3 of UK. I believe they just retired 4 this year. Maybe slightly older than the Bremens and maybe expensive to maintain. Armaments are a lot older too but enough to make the Chinese think twice with their destroyers lingering in the Spratly's unmatched.
The intention is not to engage China militarily but to enable the PN to have a better presence in its waters. As has been pointed out, any purchase of vessels, whether new or used, will have to take into account how labour and maintenance intensive they are, as well as long term operating costs. If the cash was available South Korean shipyards would be an ideal place to churn out low cost, newly built OPVs or corvettes. These would be much cheaper to operate and would have much lower manning levels than the Hamiltons or any ex-European frigate. Don't get me wrong, I think the Hamiltons are great vessels and are a useful asset, but my opinion is that they are a bit of an ''overkill'' for the PNs requirements. They are also 30 odd year old vessels and as they get older, will be harder to support. What the Philippines also urgently needs are MPAs, something affordable and with a decent range such as the CN-235, fitted with a surface search radar, to be able to better monitor its waters.
 
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Acadiana Pirate

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Very true Sturm. We are so helpless if they truly flex their muscles. Nevertheless, we need urgently to have some deterrence at least without US or outside help. It maybe costly in the long run or we need to invest in training immediately but we do not have any choice if we are going to prevent another Mischief Reef incident wherein it was stolen right before our eyes and we could not do anything about it.
The Koreans are good source of the next new purchases we need such as ships and jet trainers but right now is the key. Italy's Maestrale frigates and Germany's Bremens and Gepards are about to be decommisioned. Especially Bremens which has a lot of life left and we can probably get some to have some sort of strong deterrence complemented by the WHECs and that should provide strong presence in the WPS and the surroundings.Their equipments and engines are as American as the Korean's frigates. We just need to get some of our Naval personnel trained in these kind of toys because whether we like it or not we will be heading that way. Hopefully we can get more oil and gas to provide us with more money to spend for modernization of the AFP. The Australians withheld their drilling for 6 months in the WPS because they probably wanted to see how we are going to protect them if the Dongguans starts showing up and start claiming their "dotted-line" rights again in Recto. That just shows you hot transfers such as what happened in the Hamilton maybe not be fast enough.
 

ManilaBoy

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The Philippines is racing againts time to bolster and restore it's territorial defense capability with several major aircraft acqusitions for the PAF to be sign by the middle of summer 2012 ...

Content removed as it was a clear infringement of an aviation publications copyright and a violation of Defence Talks posting rules. You cannot publish a whole article of text even if it is a photo-image of an article. A link to an article is acceptable but not whole pages.
 
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Acadiana Pirate

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This is great! I hope the Philippines get all 8 Maestrale's available. I believe they also looked at the Descubierta's of Spain and it's LPD, the Galicia and also new OPV's. I wonder what they will buy in France and UK.

These combat ready materiel and long range radar, AMX's, F-16's, MPA's, UAV's will provide strong defensive posture in the West Philippine Sea besides the ex-Hamiltons. What a 180 degree transformation that will be in such a short time.

Therefore, the drilling can commence in the Palawan area and will add tremendous amount of revenue, besides the Malampaya rigs, for the Philippines and it's future.
 

ManilaBoy

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fretburner

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^ Great news! Something I really was hoping the Philippines would buy first... Well, sort of, as I thought an Air Search Radar was going to be 1st priority. It will also give the AFP (not sure if this will be Army or Navy?) the critical skillset of operating such a radar.
 

exported_kiwi

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The US will provide a powerful land based radar to the Philippines to help track ships off the island nations vast coastline, the cost and timeline for the project are still being worked out said a Pentagon spokeswoman ...

US to help Philippines with radar: Pentagon - Latest news around the world and developments close to home - MSN Philippines News

Pentagon: U.S. To Help Philippines with Radar | Defense News | defensenews.com
I'd like to be able to read these articles that you've provided links to but, living in China, they are, of course, blocked!
 

recce.k1

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I'd like to be able to read these articles that you've provided links to but, living in China, they are, of course, blocked!
In the media article it states US & Philippines are in the initial planning stages to establish a National Coast Watch Center, which apparently includes a land-based radar to "improve their maritime domain awareness". (It's not clear as to the extensiveness of the radar system - just out of curiosity). The Philippines has also expressed an interest in patrol vessels and aircraft. Here's the first article (the second is near similar to the first).

US to help Philippines with radar: Pentagon

The US military said Tuesday it plans to provide a land-based radar to the Philippines, as the country faces an escalating dispute with China over territorial rights off its shore.

The radar would form part of a "watch center" to help track ships off the island nation's coast line, a Pentagon spokeswoman said.

"We are in the initial planning stages of assisting the Philippines with a National Coast Watch Center," Major Catherine Wilkinson told AFP.

"This center will improve their maritime domain awareness of a breadth of security issues including counter proliferation of WMD (weapons of mass destruction) to countering illegal smuggling," she said.

The cost and the time line for the project were still being worked out, she said.

Plans to provide a powerful radar to the Philippines came after Philippine President Benigno Aquino paid a visit last week to the White House, where he was offered a robust show of support.

Manila has asked for the radar system and other military assistance to bolster its position in a row with Beijing over the Scarborough Shoal, which lies near the main Philippine island of Luzon.

China claims the area along with virtually all of the South China Sea up to the shores of other Southeast Asian nations, including Malaysia, Vietnam and the Philippines.

The move reflects Washington's strategic shift towards Asia amid a growing rivalry with Beijing, with the South China Sea at the center of the contest, analysts said.

"Land-based radar is one of the practical ways the United States can simultaneously boost Philippine defense capabilities and signal Washington's long-term commitment to Asia," said Patrick Cronin, senior adviser for Asia at the Center for a New American Security, a Washington think tank.

China may choose to defuse tensions just before a gathering of the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations next month, Cronin said.

"But it is also possible that China is determined to humiliate the Philippines and, indirectly, the United States," he told AFP.

The Philippines has also expressed interest in patrol vessels and aircraft to help monitor the vast waters off its coast, where the Chinese have sent ships to assert their territorial claims.

It was unlikely the United States would look at providing military aircraft at a time when China may be preparing a conciliatory gesture, Cronin said.

"If China persists with embarrassing the Philippines, then I have no doubt aircraft sales will follow," he said.
 
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